Is the Krishna conscious movement being swallowed by Hindusm?

[Guest guest]

PURPORT Adi 10.11

 

Srila Narottama dasa Thakura has said, anya-devasraya nai, tomare kahinu bhai, ei bhakti parama-karana: if one wants to become a pure, staunch devotee, one should not take shelter of any of the demigods or -goddesses. Foolish Mayavadis say that worshiping demigods is as good as worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but that is not a fact. This philosophy misleads people to atheism. One who has no idea what God actually is thinks that any form he imagines or any rascal he accepts can be God. This acceptance of cheap gods or incarnations of God is actually atheism. It is to be concluded, therefore, that those who worship demigods or self-proclaimed incarnations of God are all atheists. They have lost their knowledge, as confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (7.20): kamais tais tair hrita-jnanah prapadyante ’nya-devatah. “Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods.” Unfortunately, those who do not cultivate Krishna consciousness and do not properly understand the Vedic knowledge accept any rascal to be an incarnation of God, and they are of the opinion that one can become an incarnation simply by worshiping a demigod. This philosophical hodge-podge exists under the name of the Hindu religion, but the Krishna consciousness movement does not approve of it. Indeed, we strongly condemn it. Such worship of demigods and so-called incarnations of God should never be confused with the pure Krishna consciousness movement.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

I am sure it's confucing, one point Srila Prabhupada says Shiva and Ganesh are demi-gods again He says they are devotees [shiva devotee of Vishnu, Ganesh-Great devotee of Lord Nrsimhadeva]. And there is also Temple of Sada-shiva in Mayapura. [Govinda Maharaja site has these Videos]. And Shiva-tattva is most difficult to explain. You have to go slowly with that I suspect.

 

In Iskcon they do celebrate Shiva-ratri, [they celebrate this in Mayapura also]. I don't know about Ganesh Caturdasi, I think this practise is not prevalent, as most ask Ganesh to remove obstacle on thier path of sence gratification. So generally speaking Acaryas says demi-god worshippers run after sence enjoyment, [that's thier main goal]. Or when they have exhausted these posibilities they want to become one with God. Prabhupada said in one lecture I remember that Lord Buddha said 'THERE IS NO GOD' but I AM GOD, so no God, but His God. [figure that out]

 

.....So Mayavadis are doing same thing, they say everybody is God. Which basically says There is No God. If you say you are God means God doesn't exsist. It is Athsieum in it's most vile state. But Devotees of Krishna have scientific Knowledge, and they want Bliss, [pure love of Godhead]. Don't mistake Bliss for something mystical, it is Love of Krishna. Pheww

[Gaea]

 

Which basically says There is No God. If you say you are God means God doesn't exsist.

 

 

 

can anyone explain it? if a mayavadi says absolutely everything is God (i.e. God is omnipresent) then how can that mean atheism? How can one conclude that there is no God? It sounds like something out of ancient Greek philosophy.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Gauranga as child of 4 years old, eats some clay and He says to His Mother that since food is manisfestation of clay anyway, it's fine to eat it. Then Mother Saci being the wife of a Brahmana says that, just like you use a pot to fill water with, that same pot as a brick cannot be used to drink water out of. [That's deep philosophy, even the greatest scientists, mayavadis, athiests, cannot understand this simple concept.- and who said it? Mother Saci-devi.

 

Meaning that everything is not <font color="red">One</font color>

 

In Krishna-lila, Krishna eats clay, but this time Krishna shows mother Yashoda the whole cosmic manifestation in His mouth. And Krishna says, that He never eat any clay.

 

In another lila, Srila Madvacharya [Hanuman-Shiva combined Incarnation] He says that if you have a bowl of water and you add some more, will the water merge? Or will it expand? So to cite that, and to think we are spirit souls. Well, souls cannot merge with anything. Because they are eternal. ANyway the whole point is missed if you say they can.

 

Mayavadis actually claim they were once merged, with God [whoever God is in their conception]. And now they are seperated, Prabhu this is so decietful and envious philosophy propagated by Sriman Sankracharya its totally unbieliebale to Bhaktas. ANyway, also Sankracharya was Shiva, so who better to delude the envious. Still though visiting Hindu-Forums is not my personal recommendation as they have amazing over-familiariy conceptions on Vaishnavas. At least the Hippies didn't know squat, now they are pure vaishnavas. Gaura haribol Phewww

[Gaea]

but that doesn't really explain it.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Everything is God means everything is Brahman [which means Spirit]. That is the First realization. [brahman Realization]. Then comes 2nd Realization, which is Paramatma [without your heart]. When you realize Him [Paramatma] then you automatically realize that you are actually a Jiva-soul. Instantly.

 

Reason why the everything is Brahman is so much used is because, you cannot seperate God from His energy, if you say everything is not Brahman then your saying God has seperate exsistant. This is the reason over here, which makes Mayavadis claim everything is God, which is why they are athiests. To cite this claim they say we can merge. And right now we are covered by Maya. When Maya is gone... you become God. [haha]. That's why it's called Mayavadi.

 

If not answered then sure many devotees can.

 

Ps Brahman realization has something to do with Santa-rasa [neautrality]. But realization in Bhakti-yoga and Jnana-yoga [mayavadi, impersonalist, mixed etc] is not exactly the same. There is less taste [transcendental in those], in Jaiva-dharma it says, many Mayavadis fail. [not fail, they already fallen]

[Guest guest]

Mayavadis don't say everything is God, that is the misunderstanding of Gaudiyas. Brahmavadis say everything is God. Mayavadis say God alone exists and the world an illusion.

[Gaea]

 

ayavadis claim everything is God, which is why they are athiests.

 

 

 

this is still a contridction for me - i don't see where this implication logically comes from, except that Prabhupad said it alot.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Mayavadis Goal is to become God, by merging into His exsistance. [brahmajyoti]. Their Goal is this. It is a material desire. Mayavadis say everything is God, they mean we are also 'that'.

 

When devotees of Vishnu say this they mean 'everything is spiritual-God's energy'. This is the difference.

[Gaea]

 

Mayavadis Goal is to become God, by merging into His exsistance. [brahmajyoti]. Their Goal is this. It is a material desire. Mayavadis say everything is God, they mean we are also 'that'.

When devotees of Vishnu say this they mean 'everything is spiritual-God's energy'. This is the difference.

 

 

 

i know, i understand that. My original question was that if mayavadis say "everything is God", how does that make them atheists? Atheists don't believe in God. But obviously mayavadis believe in God because they're saying everying is God.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Similarly, the mysticism of the Bhagavad-gita can be understood only by devotees, and no one else can taste it, as it is stated in the Fourth Chapter of the book. Nor can the Gita be touched by persons who **envy** the very existence of the Lord. Therefore, the Mayavadi explanation of the Gita is a most misleading presentation of the whole truth. Lord Caitanya has forbidden us to read commentations made by the Mayavadis and warns that one who takes to such an understanding of the Mayavadi philosophy loses all power to understand the real mystery of the Gita. If individuality refers to the empirical universe, then there is no need of teaching by the Lord. The plurality of the individual soul and of the Lord is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed by the Vedas as above mentioned.

Bg 2.12 Pur

 

“The happiness of becoming one with the Supreme Lord, which is aspired for by the Mayavadis, is considered hellish.” That oneness is not for pure devotees.

SB.3.25.34 Pur

 

Mayavadis and atheists accept the forms of the Deities in the temple of the Lord as idols, but devotees do not worship idols. They directly worship the Personality of Godhead in His arca incarnation.

SB.3.25.34 Pur

 

The Mayavadi philosopher, who does not differentiate between the Supreme Spirit and the individual spirit, says that the conditional existence of the living entity is his lila, or pastime. But the word “pastime” implies employment in the activities of the Lord. The Mayavadis misuse the word and say that even if the living entity has become a stool-eating hog, he is also enjoying his pastimes. This is a most dangerous interpretation.

SB.3.26.7

 

 

The Mayavada philosophy sees everything as being equal in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the Supreme Brahman, and therefore sees everything as worshipable. This dangerous theory of the Mayavada school has turned people in general toward atheism.

SB.6.16.52 Pur

[Guest guest]

but what does this have to do with the thread?