Books by Srila Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

 

A little intro... ISKCON brought me to spiritual life and Krsna and I've really found myself in philosophy, devotional practices, moral codes etc. But there is a large stumbling block and that is Prabhupada, specifically his books, and more specifically the vast number of very very bold statements filling his books.

 

Just take any of his books starting with BG as it is and flip through the pages. His constant outrage at mayavadis, atheists and materialists, that I can understand and accept. But he establishes his views as superior on great number of topics not connected with Vaisnavism such as other religions, astronomy, astrology, cuisine, various social issues, dress code, economics etc etc.

 

As a Westerner (Mleccha?) I just can't stand the tone of those statements. They are very arrogant and exorbitant to me.

 

Then take into account that

 

1. his books are procclaimed in ISKCON as lawbooks for the next 10000 years

2. all devotees are expected to read them as part of their daily sadhana and distribute them widely

3. the most of the gurus, GBCs and leaders are ex book distributors

 

Conclusion is that I'm in trouble deep. I want to be a devotee of Krsna, have sadhu-sanga, get initiated and everything but can't fully appreciate the books of ISKCON founder. Otherwise I like Prabhupada and very much appreciate all the efforts he had made to give the Holy Name to the world. And his books are mostly OK, but every now and then I stumble accross these "bold statements" and despair. Sometimes I console myself saying that they are the result of his temper and cultural background. But most of the time I avoid reading his books, resorting to other Vaisnava authors, contemporary and classical.

 

I don't know how to resolve this "situation". So if there are some ISKCON or ex-ISKCON members who can offer a piece of advice, I badly need it.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada described his books as "alive". Alive means spiritual, as matter is the abscence of spirit. Therefore we cannot understand the books in full, they gradually reveal themselves as we advance in devotional service. In fact, Srila Prabhupada's books will take us to the highest realms of divine service, but not untill our hearts are pure. If we find a passage that does not conform to our conditioning, let it rest for now. Pray to Krsna for revelation. The blissful journey has just begun.

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that these books "will take us to the highest realms of divine service", I've experienced that, but I've also experienced despair when Prabhupada is discussing earthly matters that don't have anything to do with "highest realms".

 

I suppose you are one of those devotees who regard every Prabhupada's word as perfect. I'm simply unable to join that camp. I tried that very hard in the past, with no success.

 

Let me rephrase my question: is it possible to be an ISKCON member loyal to Prabhupada without believing *every* word of his? Are the words of an acarya equally authoritative in every topic imaginable?

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Let me rephrase my question: is it possible to be an ISKCON member loyal to Prabhupada without believing *every* word of his? Are the words of an acarya equally authoritative in every topic imaginable?

 

 

Depends who intrepretates the words /images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

I find so some quotes of Prabhupada are misrepresentated and used for political things. But mostly when I find something I contemplate on it more. Sometimes it takes weeks to find an answer.

[Guest guest]

Haribol,

 

It is imaginable that some people have trouble understanding Srila Prabhupads teachings. Specially, the western/ western influenced people. But rest assured Srila Prabhupada never said or wrote anything out of context based on his own whim.

 

________

But he establishes his views as superior on great number of topics not connected with Vaisnavism such as other religions, astronomy, astrology, cuisine, various social issues, dress code, economics etc etc.

_________

 

It is your misunderstanding that the Vedas deal with only the knowledge of Godhead. Vedas literally means "the end of knowledge". So all the above topics that you mentioned were propounded by Srila Prabhupada solely on the basis of scriptures. That people cannot accept it is because they are always trying to be politically liberal by saying that every view is right. But if every view were to be accepted as right then what is the authority of vedas then??

 

Generally, people qoute SPs books and statements out of context. That is a big part of the problem.

 

 

_________

And his books are mostly OK, but every now and then I stumble accross these "bold statements" and despair.

_________

 

His books are "OK"? You must be kidding. How much of the vedas do you know to pass such a judgement?? His books give vedic teachings in the most simple and profound manner possible in english language.

 

People in general want to be pampered in their ideas. This is what so called modern "gurus" in the west do. One can do all kinds of nonsense and still be spiritually perfect. But someone like SP comes along and cuts all myths then they dont like it. A sadhu literally means "one who cuts" (material attachment). So SPs bold statements are with basis and for the general benefit of people and completely authorized by scriptures.

 

If you have furhter doubts, then it would be easier to share specific doubts with devotees to clarify any misunderstandings. To assume that bold statements are wrong and neglect teachings does not augur well for one on the spiritual path.

 

Hope this (bold) clarification helps.

 

Hare Krishna.

Radhey Radhey.

 

Abhi

 

 

[jagatpurush 0]

very nice. ISKCON is a preaching movement. not that only Prabhupada should preach, but the person who is there ten years should preach to the new bhakta. and the six-month bhakta should preach to the 3-month bhakta. based on what he knows.

 

ISKCON has been shown to be successful, against all odds, based on the Vedic formula. based on this precedent, it is doubtful that any watered-down version will ever produce success, despite what material thinking would predict (that if we are more lenient, then more people will come). thanks, Hare Krsna

[theist 1]

I have suffered through many of the same doubts and questions as you guest. I have finally come to a place that I find very peaceful and I am very content here.

 

I had to decide exactly what I wanted to derive from Srila Prabhupada's books, the quintessence of it all if you will. What do you want from association with Srila Prabhupada? What are you yourself looking for? Do you know?

 

Is it cosmology? Biology? Sociology and facts on how best to arrange a progressive material society. Higher culture and the performing arts?

 

Want to be a popular member of a religious organization? One of the in-crowd who all gets the Maha plate first and the adoration of the brahmacarini's and others?

 

Attainment of higher planets? Want to be a demigod? Brahma? I would pick Kama but that's just me. Liberation from birth and death altogether?

 

Love for Krsna? Knowledge about the soul and Supersoul and the relationship? How to attain the mercy of the Lord? Do you want to be Krsna's friend or lover?

 

What exactly do you want from Srila Prabhupada?

 

When we become more introspective and thoughtful with our own desires and can prioritize their relative importance it all becomes a lot clearer.

 

Pick out any sloka from the Bhagavatam that describes the nature of the soul and ask yourself where else could you find such knowledge. I don't think there is anywhere else.

 

When I come to something that I find disturbs my mind in the manner that you described I have learned to just let it pass unresolved. It is always undoubtly something that does not relate to my eternal well being anyway so why do I need to feel the pressure to resolve it. Like the moon controversy. Who cares about the moon anyway. It is just a temporary prop in the sky set there to make us think this dream is real. It has only as much value as it reminds you of Krsna for remeberance of Krsna is the ONLY value in life.

 

Always ask Krsna in the heart to help you resolve these normal doubts. Of course He will clear your way back to Him. Why would He not?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for reminding me of my material mind, that IS truly appreciated.

_________

It is your misunderstanding that the Vedas deal with only the knowledge of Godhead. Vedas literally means "the end of knowledge".

_________

 

Yes, I've heard thousand times that Vedas are perfect source of knowledge covering anything and everything. But I remind you that Bhaktivinode Thakur also distinguished between transcendental topics of Bhagavatam and relative ones (astronomy etc.).

 

One stupid example: yesterday we celebrated Nrsimhadeva Caturdasi. We made some samosas and they were offered to the Deity. According to you these were rascal's speculative non-Vedic samosas. Why? They weren't deep-fried but baked and filled with cheese and olives. That's not what Krsna likes? That's what our speculative and non-surrendered minds and stomachs want, right?

 

_________

But if every view were to be accepted as right then what is the authority of vedas then??________

 

I am talking about everyday affairs. There is no discussion about statement like "There is God, we are his part and parcels and we're meant to serve Him". But saries, dhotis, skirts and pants, sandeshas and apple-pie, hair or no hair, these can't be wrong or right, what authority is needed here??? Prabhupada liked sandeshas and jamuns, I don't, so what?

 

 

_________

His books are "OK"? You must be kidding. How much of the vedas do you know to pass such a judgement?? His books give vedic teachings in the most simple and profound manner possible in english language.

_________

 

I meant that his books made sense to me. You've obviously studied all from Rg and Atharva Veda down to Upanisads and Puranas and then verified all that Prabhupada had said and wrote?

 

_________

People in general want to be pampered in their ideas.

_________

 

I very much agree. But Krsna and devotional service definitely are not MY ideas, I got them from Prabhupada.

 

 

_________

 

If you have furhter doubts, then it would be easier to share specific doubts with devotees to clarify any misunderstandings.

_________

 

I did, they usually smile and wave their hand or say just to forget the whole thing or say it's not important. And I definitely don't want to spend my life trying to find out whether sun is closer than moon. Krsna consciousness offers a whole lot more than that, at least to me.

 

[Guest guest]

_________

I had to decide exactly what I wanted to derive from Srila Prabhupada's books, the quintessence of it all if you will. What do you want from association with Srila Prabhupada? What are you yourself looking for? Do you know?

_________

 

Thank you Theist. Finally something that this poor fellow can use in his life.

[Guest guest]

This predicament is one of the dilemas that latter day bhaktas encounter with the movement of Iskcon. That is when Prabhupad was present physically his very prescence dispelled most doubts in the minds of the many aspirants seeking the Truth in those times, if there was any queries, then you could have them addressed directly and answered to your satisfaction.

Now there are many modern issues relative to the times we live in that I'm sure many devotees would like to enquire about further. But we don't always receive conclusive answers from paramatma, Bhagavatam or perhaps the disciples passing on Srila Prabhupads teachings. It is nessacary to confirm with our initiated guru the queries we have on shastra and day to day events in our life.

It may not be good enough for some souls to leave those things aside that perplex us, as they may be disturbing our faith from blooming fully. And thwart our progressive development.

Many of the the higher truths of scripture are no doubt acintya, they are playing out on a plane way beyond our mental capacities to enter inio them therefore the living revelations that saintly persons experience will always be foreign to us untill we ourselves enter those dimentions revealed by the previous acharyas.

We can't always understand the behaviour or the statements of a sadhu simply because what is night to the introspective sage is day to those conditioned with material conception.

In varying degrees of awakenment through faith or conviction in Sri gurus words we may have entrance into that unpredictable realm of Krsna consciousness that they espouse with firm conviction or seeming arrogance.

It is always best to enquire submissively in the spirit of humble service and the answers will be revealed in due course, if not the spirit of humble service may be more satisfactory in itself.

There will always be some curve balls to test our faith in Guru, it is designed for us to dive deeper into our own sincerity.

To some degree we have to fly blind untill we are enlightened.

 

What Krsna revealed to Srila Prabhupad when he looked in the mirror and stated "What a gem" can't be objectively comprehended from where we are. But if we consider his lifes contribution to the suffering animation of this planet we may share a glint of his joyful pride of how our Lord Krsna has utilized him to dispell irreligion in the times we are living, where would we be otherwise, I dread to ponder.

If we could but only follow in the confident footsteps of his Krsna consciousness the world would truly be a far more wondrous place.

[Guest guest]

Srila Govinda Maharaj has stated that he blasted a tunnell thru those mountains of misconception so that we can now walk easier on the path.

 

So many ignorant challenges came from the material section of those covered times.

[Kulapavana 0]

"he establishes his views as superior on great number of topics not connected with Vaisnavism such as other religions, astronomy, astrology, cuisine, various social issues, dress code, economics etc etc."

 

while SP was not an expert in astronomy or economics his views are based on the vedic paradigm and as such, need to be treated with respect. with time and more study you will be able to appreciate them more and more. some of his statements are certainly relative in terms of time, place and circumstances.

 

will his books stand the test of time? I'm sure they will, but the statement "his books are procclaimed in ISKCON as lawbooks for the next 10000 years" does not come from SP, and is more like an affectionate praise from an admirerer than some kind of mystic prediction.

 

[jagatpurush 0]

is the perfect person to comment on this, because he has faith in Prabhupada and is also a man of science. he even has an understanding of Vedic astrology, which is very rare and a subject of much mystery.

[theist 1]

I copied this from a previous post by guest:

 

Srila Prabhupada wrote in a letter to Krsna das (Nov. 7, 1972):

 

These things are not very important; we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. There are sometimes allegorical explanations [in the Bhagavatam]. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. . . . So we are concerned with Krsna consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavata, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

[jagatpurush 0]

i have become aware that this quote was taken out of context (when i posted it as guest). the sound-byte was recently posted on Chakra and as a result KK Prabhu on siddhanta.com did a full contextual analysis.

 

June 15, 2005

Shastra: Something In It For Everyone, But What for Who?

 

Chakra just posted a short article titled "Prabhupada saw Rahu as allegory", offering as evidence a partially quoted letter from Srila Prabhupada to his disciple Krsnadasa.

 

[As quoted on Chakra.org] "But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .; just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. There are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct?

 

"We are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam." (Letter to Krsnadasa, Vrindaban, Nov. 7, 1972) (Chakra)

 

However, the context Chakra did not quote makes it clear that wherever there is a discrepancy between science and Vedic literature, the opinion of Vedic literature is to be accepted over science.

 

Vrindaban 7 November, 1972 72-11-07

 

My Dear Krsnadasa,

 

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

 

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

 

[bg. 7.26]

 

that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

 

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

 

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

(BG, 15.13)

 

``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

 

Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and

 

you mam evam asammudho

janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam

(BG, XV, 19)

 

``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher,

 

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (Srila Prabhupada 1972)

 

In the letter, Srila Prabhupada advances an epistemological argument that the Chakra team left out of the reference and which does not support the meaning they assign to the portion they quote. Srila Prabhupada speaks about how we receive information: "for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise." Why do these questions not arise? According to Srila Prabhupada they do not arise because "our information comes from Vedas." Srila Prabhupada clearly speaks of accepting Vedic authority as a source of infallible knowledge. Srila Prabhupada comments further: "that He knows everything, and 'vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise." Note that Srila Prabhupada does not (and never does throughout his teachings) ascribe the same infallibility to science, even with regard to material affairs.

 

Another part of the quote left out (in the same paragraph, no less) by Chakra's editors conclusively describes a fundamental discrepancy between science and Vedic literature.

 

But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. (Srila Prabhupada 1972)

 

 

And there we have it. Wherever science and the Bhagavatam disagree on material affairs, the Bhagavatam is to be taken as authoritative not science. As to how this changes the meaning Chakra and the author of the article on Chakra ascribed to this letter, it most certainly cannot be said that Srila Prabhupada thinks the account of the creation of Rahu as provided in the Srimad-Bhagavatam is allegorical. This reference, which also appears in the book Life Comes From Life, shows otherwise:

 

Srila Prabhupada. There are many invisible planets and stars. For example, when the Rahu planet passes before the sun and moon, there is an eclipse. But the scientists describe an eclipse differently. Actually, the Rahu planet causes an eclipse. There are many questionable points regarding the modern scientists' theory of the eclipse. Their explanation is incorrect according to Vedic information.

 

Dr. Singh. But the scientists say that they can prove their theories.

 

Srila Prabhupada. They say that science proves everything. But that is nonsense. The scientist has proved everything except what he is. That he does not know. And why does he die? That also he does not know. That is the extent of his knowledge.

 

Dr. Singh. They can make a model of the universe. They can make a model of the planets and the moon.

 

Srila Prabhupada. If they can make things, why don't they make an imitation sun to save electricity? These rascals say everything, but they cannot do anything. That is their position. If they can make a model of the universe, let them make a big model of the sun. Then in the dark night we will not have to spend so much money on electricity. But they cannot do it. Yet they speak big, big words, simply to take money from the taxpayers. They say they know the composition of the moon and the composition of the sun, so why can't they make them? Why can't they create an artificial sun so that the people of Iceland and Greenland can be saved from so much cold? (Srila Prabhupada 1973)

 

So how should we understand Srila Prabhupada's explanation to Krsnadasa? First of all, it should be clear that Srila Prabhupada himself does not accept that the explanation of the Bhagavatam is allegorical. The reason as he himself stated is that he accepts Vedic literature as perfect and that any discrepancy between Vedic literature and science indicates fault on account of the scientists. However, Krsnadasa is Srila Prabhupada's disciple but does not fully accept the authority of Vedic literature. Srila Prabhupada is trying to bring Krsnadasa to a higher level of knowledge by preaching to him according to his understanding. The idea is that if one becomes fully Krishna conscious, then doubts will not arise because he will have fully understood the infallibility of Krishna and hence the infallibility of Vedic literature. This is similar to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's writing of Sri Krishna Samhita, an attempt to preach to people who have more faith in modern science than in Vedic literature.

 

Finally, there is this thoroughly "unscientific" explanation for eclipses:

 

TRANSLATION

 

After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about Rahu's attack, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarsana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarsana cakra is the Lord's most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-Vaisnavas, is unbearable to Rahu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time Rahu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse.

 

PURPORT

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, is always the protector of His devotees, who are also known as demigods. The controlling demigods are most obedient to Lord Visnu, although they also want material sense enjoyment, and that is why they are called demigods, or almost godly. Although Rahu attempts to attack both the sun and the moon, they are protected by Lord Visnu. Being very afraid of Lord Visnu's cakra, Rahu cannot stay in front of the sun or moon for more than a muhurta (forty-eight minutes). The phenomenon that occurs when Rahu blocks the light of the sun or moon is called an eclipse. The attempt of the scientists of this earth to go to the moon is as demoniac as Rahu's attack. Of course. their attempts will be failures because no one can enter the moon or sun so easily. Like the attack of Rahu, such attempts will certainly be failures. (Srila Prabhupada. Srimad-Bhagavatam)

 

This presents yet another problem with the Rahu as allegory explanation: If this description of Vishnu battling Rahu is also allegorical, then we also come to the conclusion that the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are also allegorical. In trying to find some deeper meaning than the plain explanation before us, we become Mayavadis, because we implicitly accept such pastimes as imaginary.

 

The conclusion is that the material explanations in the Bhagavatam are perfect, and that differences between the Vedic version and that of the material scientists demonstrate a discrepancy in the scientific understanding. Srila Prabhupada himself does not accept the incident of Rahu as merely allegorical, although for the sake of trying to increase the faith of doubting disciples he may sometimes try to explain things in that way. It is true that there are allegorical explanations in Vedic literature, and Srila Prabhupada in his own commentary to the Srimad-Bhagavatam writes that the story of King . is in fact allegorical. Those who try to understand Vedic literature's descriptions of material phenomena as allegorical, wherever they are inconsistent with the body of modern scientific knowledge, may preserve some degree of faith in Vedic literature, but there is, however, an always present danger that they will become Mayavadis since they also risk seeing the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as being imaginary. Fundamentally, the preference of scientific authority over Vedic authority represents a measure of faithlessness, or non-acceptance of Krishna. While some faith is better than no faith, such a world view disqualifies those who hold it from advancing further in Krishna consciousness.

 

Works Cited

 

Editors' Note. "Prabhupada saw Rahu as allegory" Chakra.org 14 Jun 2005. Chakra.org 14 Jun 2005. <http://chakra.org/discussions/ODiscJun14_05.html>

Srila Prabhupada. "Letter to Krsnadasa" 7 Nov 1972

Srila Prabhupada. "The Sixteenth Morning Walk: December 10, 1973." Life Comes From Life

Srila Prabhupada. Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.24.3 trans + purp.

[theist 1]

Now place it in your own words and we can talk about it.

[AncientMariner 0]

When I first started reading Prabhupada's books I got really depressed and they had the same effect you are talking about but if you really get into them especially Srimad Bhagavatam you will see although Prabhupada was very authoritative there is also a very compassionate side to him as well. I still struggle with some of the seeming contradictions like you have to chant 16 rounds or you are not even human but then they say there is no hard and fast rules to chanting. I have even read a passage in Srimad Bhagavatam that if you recite that story of Prahlada Maharaja or Dhruva Maharaja, can't remember which one, in the morning you are guaranteed to go home to Godhead at the end of your life and you will get material happiness in life as well. So there does appear to be some flexibility in devotional service, it isn't all necesarily a bunch of authoritarian strongarming.

[jagatpurush 0]

with what in particular about the article?

 

thanks, jpd

[theist 1]

with your statement that the quote I posted was taken out of context.

 

Please explain how you think it is in your own words and then I will respond to you.

[theist 1]

well jpd then I will just restate my personal position.

 

 

So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

 

What I am trying to point out is that we make a mistake in focusing on the correctness of either one and in doing so miss the oppurtunity of drinking in the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

To me the essence of the moon question has nothing to do with the position of the moon or if some demon in the form of a planet keeps trying to eat it at such very exacting and predictable cycles that just happen to exactly correspond to known alignments between the earth sun and moon or not.

 

I take the important thing to be the fact that Krsna is the Origin & Controler of which every is happening and that He is also present as the light in all luminous objects including the moon.

 

I view the very controversy itself to be a distraction.

[theist 1]

 

Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically.

 

 

So it sure appears to me from the above quote that Prabhupada is saying, "Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically." But apparently others hear it differently.

 

[theist 1]

Main Entry: al·le·go·ry

 

Etymology: Middle English allegorie, from Latin allegoria, from Greek allEgoria, from allEgorein to speak figuratively, from allos other + -Egorein to speak publicly, from agora assembly -- more at ELSE, AGORA

 

1 : the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression

2 : a symbolic representation : EMBLEM 2

[theist 1]

Some seem to equate the word allegory with blasphemy. I don't. Spoken from the right source an allegory is simple another vehicle to deliver Divine Truth. The Divine Truth is the essence we seek.

 

How does it affect ones faith or realization is they do or do not accept that there is a demon's head periodically attacking the sun?

 

I can see how understanding that Krsna is the light in all luminous objects, the supplier of the lifeforce to all vegetables through the moon. The moon can remind us of Nityanada and we can be greatly benefited by that simple rememberance. I remember seeing the full moon from time to time with this beautiful colored rings around it. It always made me think that Nityananda was looking down and smiling on the world. I feel I was blessed by that simple thought.

 

But I just don't see the blessing or curse surrounding this demon's head idea?