Abortion is Bad Karma: Hindu Perspectives

[theist 1]

A good article.

 

http://www.fnsa.org/fall98/murti1.html

[krsna 3]

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is India's greatest scholar, philosopher, cultural ambassador, author, and spiritual leader. His teachings on the subject of abortion are very clear:

 

They are killing the baby in the womb. How cruel! In this age of unwanted population, man is losing his compassion. When you kill a living entity, even an ant, you are interfering with its spiritual evolution, its progress. That living entity must again take on that same life form to complete its designated life term in that body. And the killer must return to pay for damages.(7)

 

Elsewhere Srila Prabhupada has written:

 

You are killing innocent cows and other animals--nature will take revenge. Just wait. As soon as the time is right, nature will gather all these rascals and slaughter them. Finished. They'll fight among themselves. It is going on. Why? This is nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you kill yourselves.

 

They are sending animals to the slaughterhouse, and now they'll create their own slaughterhouse....This is nature's law. It's not necessary that you be sent to the ordinary slaughterhouse. You'll make a slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child--abortion. This is nature's law.

 

Who are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed themselves when so many animals were killed, and now they're being killed by their mothers.

 

People do not know how nature is working. If you kill, you must be killed. If you kill the cow who is your mother, then in some future lifetime your mother will kill you. Yes. The mother becomes the child, and the child becomes the mother.(8)

 

[Guest guest]

to have an abortion in extreme cases. Poor people who can't afford it, teenage women made pregnant by you-know-who...all these people would be helpless with a baby in the midst of their already miserable lives. Such unfortunate souls should be encouraged to have abortions.

 

Aside from these, one should also consider population and other socio-economic factors. In thinly-populated Australia, one more baby wouldn't matter much, but in thickly-populated China or India, every baby is a drain on the resources and therefore a curse on the local economy. So any politician with a sound economic sense would not only encourage but 'faciliate' this process, if you know what I mean.

 

In effect, it is foolish to oppose or support blindly. Every situation is unique, every person is different. Hence, a decision wrt abortion should be taken ONLY after considering all these factors. One shouldn't oppose it mindlessly just because the books say so.

 

Regards,

Superman

[Guest guest]

i think that a baby simply does not want to be killed.. so there's no social, economic, political reason that can authorize you to kill him if he does not agree

 

he wants to live... if you kill him you are a murderer.... that's it

 

[Guest guest]

but how can U be so sure that the baby wants to live? How would you possibly know?

[theist 1]

Facilitators (yes we know what you mean) are simply arranging for mass murder. One can only imagine their fate.

 

From womb to womb and never seeing the light of day.

[Guest guest]

"but how can U be so sure that the baby wants to live? How would you possibly know? "

 

let the baby live then ask him!

 

(if i walk in the streets with a gun and i shot the people that i do not like.. who can say that they do not want to be killed?)

[Guest guest]

I guess the best would be not to involve in the process of conceving a child. Its actually one karma leading to another bad karma. If you dont want a child, then take preventive measures than killing the child after conception.

But medically necessary abortions are unavoidable at the same time if the mother needs to be saved in case of tubular pregnancies, and if the embryo is not removed from the fallopian tubes, it will grow and kill the mother and ultimately die with the mother.

While we can interpret all these in our own terms as how much ever we want..abortions and embryo killings are part of kaliyuga that is already described in puranaas. So these laws are all already established and we cant stop it now. So no use in lamenting or commenting. But we can be careful on our side and keep ourself detached emotionally. Emgryos are not only killed by mothers, but also the animal embryos are used in scientific studies for medical research. SO we all have to stop taking medicines itself then if we start going back or tracing the karmic level or starting point.

Finally these things are unavoidable as part of kali yuga while Voluntary abortions that result out of illicit pleasure is certainly sin.

Raghavan

[Guest guest]

A baby is not old enough to weigh the pros and cons, and make a decision. So the adult has to make that decision for him, however painful. There is no other choice.

 

 

[Guest guest]

no real civilization gives to the adults power of life and death over the children..

 

it is evil to think that because i am the father i can kill my sons 'till they gets adult age..

 

yes for deciding.. but only god can decide for death

 

(a baby is perfectly equipped to decide if he wants to live or die... and he wants to live..)

[Guest guest]

so a lady gets raped and the rapists' child is inside the womb. Is the lady wrong to want to kill the child?

[Gauracandra 1]

This world is full of suffering. The only thing we must decide to do is to suffer well or suffer poorly. It is easy enough to say theoretically, but the problem with saying it is that we might ultimately have to live it.

 

There are two sides to suffering. When we suffer we should suffer well. What do I mean? If some pain befalls me I have two options. I can react with greater negativity, or I can react with greater positivity. Perhaps this is the meaning of 'turn the other cheek'. You can turn a great evil into a great good.

 

The other side to suffering is seeing another person suffer. They too have to decide to suffer well or suffer poorly. Our job should be to help them suffer well by not suffering but through comforting.

 

What does this mean to your question? A woman is raped and becomes pregnant. She can kill the unborn and not suffer. But there are things worse than not suffering. We may not realize it unless we choose the other course. Until we see a new born child born with all potential to do good. A woman who decides to turn evil into good has truly conquered evil. And those who would like to see this happen should help her suffer well by not suffering.

[Guest guest]

"so a lady gets raped and the rapists' child is inside the womb. Is the lady wrong to want to kill the child? "

 

wich is the fault of the child? why he has to be punished with death penalty?

[Guest guest]

i understand.

 

what about the rights of the lady? the child is part of HER OWN body. it is therefore her own choice to abort. If she feels that the child has been borne of an evil deed thru no fault of her own (or the childs') and feels it is THE RIGHT CHOICE to abort then i don;t think that is wrong - Krsna has given us all the ability to think for ourselves and to make the right choices. If she genuinly thinks it is the right thing to do then it is the right thing to do in Gods' eyes also.

[Guest guest]

"what about the rights of the lady?"

 

the child has not to die for her rights

 

"the child is part of HER OWN body."

 

no.. he's an independent individual..the proof is that if you let him live he can make is life different from his mother's one

 

"Krsna has given us all the ability to think for ourselves and to make the right choices"

 

but he has also taught to us that we get different reactions according our actions. We do as we like, but then we have to pay

 

"If she genuinly thinks it is the right thing to do then it is the right thing to do in Gods' eyes also. "

 

that's blind faith and bad information about sanatana dharma....god is independent, let him think what he wants. We have to follow his laws.. and a law is that if we kill we will be killed.... and to kill an innocent baby is a incredibly sinful act

 

please consider what you are saying and let us find other solutions to solve the problems without killing the most innocent subject involved in it..

[Guest guest]

pro abortion guest, "If she genuinly thinks it is the right thing to do then it is the right thing to do in Gods' eyes also. "

 

This is mayavadi reasoning thinking we are on the same level as God and can make God think as we do with our contaminated senses.

 

pro abortion guest, "i don;t think that is wrong - Krsna has given us all the ability to think for ourselves and to make the right choices."

 

Don't think! Your reasoning is faulty and contaminated by the covering of the material nature. Yes, Krsna gives us free-will but killing is not what you call "a right choice".

 

It that were the case then we would not be vegetarians as Krsna has instructed us to be.

 

It is all coming to pass. Prabhupada told us it is predicted in the vedas that parents would be killing their children and eating them. Ok, so there is murder of the child (abortion) and now they are using the cells etc of the murdered child for medications ie ingesting ie eating.

 

Your argument for abortion is defeated by Bhagavad Gita. Go read it.

[Guest guest]

guest - "this is mayavadi reasoning thinking we are on the same level as God and can make God think as we do with our contaminated senses."

 

don't be so eager to see Mayavadi philosophy. I'm merely saying that people make decisions (what they totally believe to be right) according to their capacity. That capacity is what God has given us. That capacity is also a function of our current position, which is itself a function of karma. You (pregnant lady) therefore make a decision based on your (her) capacity. If to the fullest of ones' capacity one concludes to a genuinely right choice then what is wrong? Will karmic reaction punish you for this? In my opinion - yes. Will God punish you for this? In my opinion - no - you acted according to your capacity and intelligence. What more can one do?

 

guest - "Don't think! Your reasoning is faulty and contaminated by the covering of the material nature. Yes, Krsna gives us free-will but killing is not what you call "a right choice"."

 

Don't assume! You have no idea who i am so please refrain from judging my reasoning. Also please refrain from assuming i am pro-abortion - i haven't given that opinion nor is it my opinion currently. This is a discussion forum - therefore i am discussing.

 

guest - "Your argument for abortion is defeated by Bhagavad Gita. Go read it."

 

I did read it. Many times, many different versions. Final verdict - "Do Your Duty."

 

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

 

Will karmic reaction punish you for this? In my opinion - yes. Will God punish you for this? In my opinion - no - you acted according to your capacity and intelligence.

 

 

 

Yes, God does not deal directly with the material nature; so karmic reaction is an indirect "punishment" from God.

 

 

I did read it. Many times, many different versions. Final verdict - "Do Your Duty."

 

 

 

Right, and what is that duty? Plus, the most important point do your duty and renounce the fruits to Krishna -- then its qualified as yoga otherwise its just fruitive labour (karmii).

[Guest guest]

If "abortion is AOK with God" is all you got from Bhagavad Gita then I will pray for you.

 

If that is the case how about if the child does not quite grow up the way we desire or he is not materially attractive etc? Can we take the loser kid out and shoot it? Is that ok with God also?

 

Not eager to see mayavadi but when it is so obvious how can i help it?

[Guest guest]

when did i say Abortion is AOK with God and that i got this from the Gita?

 

Dude - don;t lose perpective of the argument. My so called "for-abortion" argument was that you can make a decision according to your capacity. Where is mayavadi philosophy obvious?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm merely saying that people make decisions (what they totally believe to be right) according to their capacity. That capacity is what God has given us.

--among our capacities there's a percentage of free will. So we have to use this free will for the good

 

I did read it. Many times, many different versions. Final verdict - "Do Your Duty."

--but you haven't read what is this duty

 

My so called "for-abortion" argument was that you can make a decision according to your capacity. Where is mayavadi philosophy obvious?

--because you believe that free will is illusory, and that good and bad are only subjective and not objective ad what is not objective is illusory.. ...maya... this is mayavada philosophy

[Guest guest]

"among our capacities there's a percentage of free will. So we have to use this free will for the good"

 

Agreed. I do not deny this.

 

"but you haven't read what is this duty"

 

I don't need to - i know that killing a baby is wrong.

 

"because you believe that free will is illusory"

 

Everything is Krsna's Will. I will not conceed to my ego and say I am doing this or that through my "own" will. Krsna is doing it all.

 

"and that good and bad are only subjective and not objective"

 

That's twisting my meaning. I didn't say that just coz one thinks he or she is doing right action that the action is in actuality "right". I just believe that God will not (at least directly) punish that person because that person has acted according to her mental and reasoning capacity.

 

"ad what is not objective is illusory.. ...maya... this is mayavada philosophy"

 

Yes, maya. I agree.

 

 

[Guest guest]

your theory that we have no free possibility to act is in contraddiction with even the fact that you are discussing with me in this forum judging that i say wrong things and that you say right ones

 

so i can choose to speak wrong concepts or right concepts and you are not a puppet when with your reasoning you judge them and answer

 

thinking is action, writing is action...we choose and decide what's better to write or what is to remain in our brain.. in the same way we are responsable of phisical acts or decisions who have a phisical effect... like killing a baby or having him killed by other murderers (=doctors)

 

so i am not the judge who will give the penalty to the "mother" who decides to murder his baby..but surely i can clearly see that she's wrong and that she'sto be convinced or even forced to let his baby take birth

 

then she will give the baby to public assistance, religious organization.. sad but no matter... everything is better than to be killed

 

 

[Tuls 0]

Abortion is simply not an option. It is a sinful act. Just like killing the cows because people think proteins and B12 vitamins are necessary for them to keep their bodies in proper health. It doesn’t matter what is the reason for killing, it doesn’t change the sinfulness of the act itself. Sure teenage mothers will have to suffer while they are taking care of the babies, but they will suffer even greater in the future for the act of killing if they go through with the abortion. Material energy is very rigid and doesn’t consider why we did it, but gives us punishment for every sinful act we perform. People should be educated about the proper behavior. This is what the most of the world religions teach.