Spiritual & Material Energy, which is which?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

In the Gita it says:

Bg.5.18: The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

 

I am not even going to present any more verses, does the above mean that actually everything is spiritual only our vision which needs adjusting?

[theist 1]

everything is spiritual. But it must be remembered that spiritual energy is variegated.

 

Also the example of it being the same electrical energy that powers both a freezer and a stove.

 

But in the verse that you quoted the brahmana is seeing the spiritsoul as the same in all those forms mentioned.

 

Our vision needs adjusting. Presently we are seeing only the outershell while being blind to the living force which is animating the form.

 

A corpse is also Brahman but the jiva who is also Brahman is never a corpse.

 

And Krsna ever remains a step beyond both.

 

Acintya.

 

Often I find myself trying to imagine what things are really like but using my mind to try and see them clearly. The problem is my mind itself is not clear so how do I expect to see clearly through it?

 

Something like trying to imagine what an object will really look like under and electron micrscope before actually looking through the microscope.

 

Our job is to become the humble sage. Then the vision of the humble sage will be there naturally. But we often want the vision first and apart from that humility. It doesn't work that way.

 

The block to us is in the word humble. But that which is seen as a block to us in our path is the very gate that one must enter through to open up this world of equal vision.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Thx

[theist 1]

Everything Is Spiritual

 

Dr. Singh. Is material consciousness the absence of Krsna consciousness?

 

Srila Prabhupäda. Yes.

 

Dr. Singh. And when there is Krsna consciousness, where is material nature?

 

Srila Prabhupäda. If you continue in Krsna consciousness, you will see that nothing is material. When you offer a flower to Krsna, it is not material. Krsna will not accept anything material. And this does not mean that the flower is material on the bush, and then it becomes spiritual when you offer it to Krsna. No. The flower is “material” only as long as you think that it is made for your enjoyment. But as soon as you see that it is for Krsna’s enjoyment, you see it as it really is—spiritual.

 

Dr. Singh. So the entire world is actually spiritual?

 

Srila Prabhupäda. Yes. Therefore, we want to engage everything in Krsna’s service; that is the spiritual world.

 

Dr. Singh. Can we also appreciate Krsna’s creation in that light? For example, can we think, “This tree is very beautiful because it is Krsna’s property”?

 

Srila Prabhupäda. Yes. That is Krsna consciousness.

 

Dr. Singh. If someone looks at the Deity of Krsna in the temple and thinks that it is only stone or wood, what does that mean?

 

Srila Prabhupäda. He is ignorant of the facts. How can the Deity be material? Stone is also Krsna’s energy. Just as electric energy is everywhere but only the electricians know how to utilize it, so Krsna is everywhere—even in stone—but only His devotees know how to utilize stone to appreciate Krsna. The devotees know that stone cannot exist outside of Krsna. Therefore, when the devotees see the Deity, they say, “Here is Krsna.” They see the real oneness of Krsna and His energy.

[jayaisvara 0]

 

The block to us is in the word humble. But that which is seen as a block to us in our path is the very gate that one must enter through to open up this world of equal vision.

 

 

 

theistji, when someones mind is constantly running here and there, how is it possible to develop humility? Is it not the Lord and Guru who can give humility? If so, how can we in the beginning by ourselves become humble?

[theist 1]

At this point I feel like I am being forcably humbled by material nature. I am not really even trying for it. It's not really even a goal I embrace. I am just trying to come to terms of my smallness in comparison to Krsna's greatness. I figure the more I learn of the relationshionship between Krsna and the jiva that I will become humbled before the Lord more and more.

 

Since I am a liberationist and not yet a devotee my concern is about how to stop suffering in this degraded material condition. It is humbling to come to terms with the fact that we have been beating our heads against a rock since time immemorial in an effort to be happy. To really face that fact is a start. And I am finding it hard to swallow.

 

I have seen however people begin the process of sadhana bhakti with earnestness and develop humility seeming without extra effort. Just by conscious chanting of Hare Krsna and 'ordinary' temple type service bowing down etc.

 

Hopefully Krsna will reveal more of Himself to us and in so doing our becoming humble is sure to follow. I don't see any way to attain it by artifical mental adjustment.

 

I mean there are so many traps. If I try to become humble what is my motive? Maybe I want to be humble because I consider it the quality of a great man and know I will receive respect for it from others. So many traps.

 

Krsna must personally intervene and humble us I think.

[jayaisvara 0]

theistji, I think I can understand. Its true that praying to be humble is just to gain something material sometimes. For example sometimes I pray to be humble so that I won't have to suffer from any future aparadhas. So I am just being selfish in just trying to take care of myself. But if I really want to love the vaishnavas and God, should my attitude be: "I don't care what happens to me, as long as I glorify the sadhus, Guru and God"? If my motive is to gain the wealth of humility, then it will not definitely come by me doing just praying. What is the price that we have to pay for this great wealth of humility?

[theist 1]

At our stage it is good to be able to search out of real motive behind anything we do or we may fall into the trap of assuming that we are working for Krsna's interest when really we have our own interest at heart.

 

We want to stop suffering.

We want to taste bliss.

This is natural and important for us at our stage, we have At our stage it is good to be able to search out of real motive behind anything we do or we may fall into the trap of assuming that we are working for Krsna's interest when really we have our own interest at heart.

 

We want to stop suffering.

We want to taste bliss.

This is natural and important for us at our stage, we have no need to deny these desires or to try and artifically repress them.

 

But there is a higher goal that our minds can never grasp while in our present positions. That state was shown by Daruka who fought off the ecstasy that he was experiencing while fanning Krsna because it was interfering with his service to Krsna.

 

Krsna needs to pull us into to this land by His grace. Until then we keeping hearing and chanting and serving as best as we are able and look to Him for help.

 

[jayaisvara 0]

theistji, I think we need good intelligence to introspect. But if our intelligence is contaminated, where do we get the good intelligence from?

[theist 1]

Supersoul. Hearing from His representatives and contemplating and praying to understand their words.

 

 

SB 6.6.42: From the womb of Matrka, the wife of Aryama, were born many learned scholars. Among them Lord Brahma created the human species, which are endowed with an aptitude for self-examination.- SB 6.6.42

 

 

So as humans we have been endowed with the aptitude for self-examination. We need only excercise this ability under the inspiration of the proper source.

 

Hare Krsna

 

[jayaisvara 0]

Thank you