kailasa 0 Report post Posted September 8, 2004 - The brief description of usual people - Ayr-veda and the astrology not will rescue mankind - How to become the "senior" devotee? - How to advance itself in the spiritual organization - Gadadhara is Radha? - What there occur with those who not "uttama", but also not " the servant of all "? - Baptists teach ISKCON - " I do not expect for service one thousand birthes " - We do not need the big society -------- The usual person always has with others adequate relations. But the unusual person will represent for example as he well to you, thus concerning badly for example. Obviously that it karmis system. When people envy each other, thus externally represent good relations. The usual person always will help you. Even strangers help each other. Even karmis neighbours not knowing neither about vedic culture, nor about love to the God, about any raised philosophies why that is simple so can help. At least here we have such experience repeatedly. The usual person has the opinion and states it. But unusual people having one opinion, speak another. Sometimes we even think that it and there is our own opinion. But ours it whether or not, it is usually found out later. In usual system the usual person can express the opinion openly. But in unusual system to the person will not give it to make. In unusual system the person can not speak the opinion because he can be afraid for example. In general the fear is one of problems in the spiritual organizations. By virtue of the sermon of the atheists, usually new people are concerned at visiting a temple for example. "Senior" devotees are not concerned only. Which very much like to teach all and in such image the person reaches perfection under their management. Having received really an invaluable management, the person quickly acquires spiritual rules. Starting from that that is not to eat chocolate (as far as it important!) and finishing full knowledge - what shoulder where it is necessary to bow. I am silent about that now probably many think that krisnaism is system of treatment and a science on horoscopes. Then later this fear is shown that the person can be and wants to find out more about a spiritual life, but she is afraid to ask. Especially at others because does not know true it questions whether or not. Frequently it happens so the person wants to promote or join as that, but does not know as. But you represent! And in fact to us have the luck! Because "senior" devotees it is USUAL ALWAYS truly everyone will learn. I only am surprised immensely as the some people manage all that in couple of years to begin senyor devotee and to reach such unshakable knowledge. (Kailasa with the trained tone has simply decided to head all this sampradaya. Yes. Let him to make it.) The usual person is always declined to share when to him well and when to him it is bad with others, it quite natural. Unusual will carry the problems year after year in itself. But in unusual system it quite natural. It not fault of the person. If we can share the problems only with the guru it is a true sign on abnormal attitudes. Everyone normal (usual) devotee does not count itself than that significant. Nevertheless maya it is arranged so, that everyone normal devotee, can become abnormal receiving those either other posts. Or this or that respect from others. I big the servant of everything, therefore I do not want to listen to bad news for example, to me it is unpleasantly simple. I am tired to listen to bad news, it недуховно. Therefore I also do not listen to them and I send all abnormal far away from myself, affably smiling to them. KC so I was fine, therefore, I do not want to participate in this maya which make others!! )) ---- Now the description of how it is possible to push itself - - It is possible to start to glorify the guru. Or OUR guru, brothers. In general ethic it is those, that at the presence of others, we glorify only the guru of others in a necessary case. There are whole organizations occupied in it quite seriously. Adult people inventing fables. - It is possible to start deities. But you can know that for example in comparison with distribution of books, worship deities secondary. Yes, yes. Worship deities secondary. Deities are necessary what the person has understood that the God has the form. And if the person develops smaranam - about the God it and is the best Deity. For this deity also are necessary. As Deities are secondary in comparison with reading of books. Shrila Prabhupada has told - " what for to you of a deity if you have books? ". Essence that on a regular basis reading books, the person realizes the God faster, than worshipping the Deity. The deity is necessary, that the person would occupy itself. Has occupied feelings. It is a good method, nevertheless studying of books even more powerfully. Many orthodox worship the Deity down to miracle. It that becomes criterion of conclusive true. Or as Shrila Prabhupada speaks - " that at whom do not have reason and an opportunity to understand philosophy, they need a miracle ". But to understand Jesus Christ's position they and could not. Origen was the unique philosopher who was closest to true. But later all this have cancelled on a universal (?) cathedral. Thus criterion of true at such passionate worship become a different sort miracles. And as a whole all religion leaves aside prejudices and blind belief (kanistha adhikari). In general Orthodoxy degraded and has fallen up to a level of worship the Deity (guru). Instead of what to follow His instructions- " and preach on roofs and not care about day the future ". Also it is possible to see result. It is business - to establish a temple and to collect money. Show where it is told in Jesus Christ's sermon? Thus the some people try to put pancaratrica (worship in a temple) above bhagavata viddhi - sermons and readings of books. Pancaratrica - worship the Deity will be never higher bhagavata viddhi . - Brahmans worship salagrama sila but if they do not distribute the book, it is better to them to leave such worship. Brahmans which worship deities and do not distribute the book, do not achieve any cleanliness. They simply become a smarta brahmans and as set a bad example another. If the person can not distribute itself, but the sermon of distribution of books, it as distribution of books. In any case if the person does not distribute the book such worship is equal zero, nil - go on street, especially if you brahmans to you it in any way will not damage. Shrila Prabhupada's books (once again) this the best and the most effective. Shrila Prabhupada is the most skilled devotee. And consequently among set of spiritual concepts, set of spiritual moods, set of various subtleties of a spiritual life, He gives the BEST. As to books of others acaryas Shrila Prabhupada has not approved attempt of the edition in ISKCON such books as " Jaiva Dharma ". Certainly, SBT began the sermon here from Russia in the form namahatta. Nevertheless if we follow Shrila Prabhupada's instructions in them already all is taken into account from the spiritual point of view. Shrila Prabhupada has told that anybody and never will jump through His head. Therefore the everything else IF WILL be studied, only in parampara from Shrila Prabhupada. In the other case it is simply useless, it besides look on the fact. Here business not that who that has decided to make Shrila Prabhupada's cult, here the matter is that is true. ------ Bhaktivinoda - in mood Laksmi devi, He has shown as from this mood vipralambha direct relations ( sambhoga ) proceed. He has blessed thus all world. But Prabhupada teaches pure mood Lord Caitanya, in this sense training Bhaktivinoda Thakur is specific. Devotees can see Gadahara as Radha, but in this case they DO NOT SEE real mood Lord Caitanya. Because LORD CAITANYA - Radharani it is real. If the person is seen Gaura- Gadadhara as Radha- Krishna thus she does not see the supreme aspect Lord Caitanya. Isvarah paramah krisnah ... sarva karana karanam KRISHNA a source of all and the reason all the reasons. It THAT, as is written by Prabhupada - " Krishna the God, Krishna is all ". Lord Caitanya is the God, the primary Person. It Radha and He Krishna. Is not present Radha outside of Lord Caitanya. Never Radha leaves Krishna. Swarupa Damodara writes (about Gadadhara Pandit) - " Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has pointed out that in the shape of Laksmi, the pleasure potency of Krsna, " I have already erased keys to quote it. Gaura lila sees Gadadhara as Laksmi devi and CC confirms it. " Gadadhara Pandita's pure ecstatic love for Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was also very deep. It was like that of Rukminidevi, who was always especially submissive to Krsna. " If who that sees Gadadhara as Radha this lower vision. And Itself Srila Bhaktivinoda makes comments on it in " Jaiva Dharma "- " However, when Krsna is absent, the lover experiences the rasa of vipralambha (separation), which itself produces a specific kind of wonderful transcendental bliss. In answer to one of Lord Mahaprabhu's questions, Ramananda Raya described (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 8.194) the wonderful bliss the devotee feel in separation from Krsna, a bliss he called 'vivarta.' Therefore what seems here to be suffering is in truth the highest spiritual bliss. " "...suffering is in truth the highest spiritual bliss. "" "Not sambhoga. Vipralambha. Vipralambha seva." Prabhupada. SBT therefore also "did not make comments" on this mood. He began training, therefore Prabhupada has told - " it is not necessary to issue Jaiva Dharma ", that as confirms Itself SBT is the citation - "... suffering is in truth the highest spiritual bliss. " Therefore Krishna has accepted this mood. Therefore Shrila Prabhupada's mission it GAURA vani, Lord Caitanya, Prabhupada represents Him. In general a context all parts of spiritual knowledge are important, but in the supreme context, in it some parts of spiritual knowledge is no necessity. ---- HOW THERE ARE PROBLEMS For example, you restrained devotee and you ask to become "senior". Or the course of events goes so you become "senior". So you become the senior, you basically even to this and did not aspire and what occurs further? You become attached to this. Including as you do not have experience. What occurs further? All your sympathies are farther and antipathy to anothers you start to embody during a life, using own position. It so, do not speak that it not so. As "senior" devotee you CERTAINLY))) who is excellent see where rights and who where is not right. You certainly do not eliminate anybody on the personal sympathies and your conditionality. No! you ... eliminate ... them BECAUSE THEY ... are ... not ... RIGHT.))) Friends, we came to the most delightful moment of our society, we have glanced in own heart so deeply!)) Or you as the senior devotee do not eliminate anybody. Do not interfere anywhere. To any insults do not listen, and simply keep имперсональную a position. While in movement operate one, others, third. Well, too nice disorganize a variant. As the senior devotee you do not participate in any disassemblies, intrigues and so forth. Therefore you with love look on struggling (as a variant) the sides. And quite clearly understand that here simply does not suffice good relations (ingeniously! )))) and KC. Yes. You solve all disassemblies, intrigues very simply - simply sing kirtan and lecture. Therefore, thus, we are loved by all. But disassemblies go further, sowed all new and new consequences. senior devotee this temple, (these are those whom we and have established), inform other senior devotee in such a manner that all this turns out only in their benefit. -------- THOSE WHO NOT "UTTAMA" (authority like president temple), BUT ALSO NOT " the SERVANT of ALL " The person privately (or it is public) appears "offensive". On you put a stamp - " he offensive ", " he does not follow principles ", " he a lunatic " and so on. It operates as a public damnation. Therefore the one who gets under such press, usually leave from our remarkable system of love in such image. That... Also is... The proof... Now you have understood as important to listen to senior devotee? You saw than result offensive? There are organizations, which were engaged in it professionally. "our guru uttama". Especially this system will be effective if everyone "trust". Because if everyone "trust", it means that anybody knows nothing. It is the monitoring system people simply. It is the same system of Orthodoxy and many, many many our today's sects. And it that, my dear against what Shrila Prabhupada struggled. And it that He has excluded from ISKCON. It what differs ISKCON from all other religions. Shrila Prabhupada has created really free society. A society based on spiritual knowledge, instead of a different grade prejudices and not clear "belief". If we have this or that spiritual experience it does not mean that we have found already all spiritual experience. Therefore Shrila Prabhupada has told - " read my books ". Because reading Shrila Prabhupada's books it is possible to leave from a different sort of problems and materialism both in the organization and in a management and in general everywhere. ISKCON it is created for discussion of a spiritual life. If we shall discuss our real problems of a spiritual life and a spiritual life in ISKCON there will not leave any person. We do not want to discuss a problem sometimes because - At us at a same problem, but we do not want to admit to ourselves it - We do not have answer to questions as we are not was trained, but at the same time we do not want to recognize it - We as can not understand that some problems is a part of a spiritual life - We do not want personal attitudes with others because we pursue the mercenary purposes - We do not want personal attitudes because we do not want to suffer (the spiritual life is created for my happiness) - We do not have the knowledge, therefore many discussions will simply destroy and without that weak belief But there can be a question. There is a set of problems which be unsoluble, for example- - Family problems at the certain moods - Problems of material welfare (only not absolutely healthy person can think that he will solve them) - Problems of relations. Anyhow a part of relations between people cannot be resolved in the near future Also what now, I all life should listen to these problems? In fact I shall go mad simply. Is not be afraid. (the mystical voice) is suddenly heard- I shall open to you... Great... A secret... Listen... Attentively... SOCIETY KC... IT IS CREATED... FOR DISTRIBUTION... BOOKS... SRILA PRABHUPADA. AND ALL... OTHER ACTIVITY... IT IS NOT INTENDED... FOR THIS ORGANIZATION ALL... WHO NOT DISTRIBUTE... BOOKS... SRILA PRABHUPADA SHOULD LEAVE FOR THE COMMUNITY. On all questions concerning - Home life - Material welfare - Health, ayr-veda, horoscopes - Relations The answer one- ---------------- YOU... SHOULD... TO GO... TO LIVE... IN THE COMMUNITY ( farm - varnasram )... AND.. TO LIVE THERE... UP TO FULL... ENLIGHTENMENTS ---------------- Because... Not distributing Shrila Prabhupada's book and live in the middle of an empire maya... You will be - in maya. POINT. (the Voice of the oracle, with a simultaneous unearthly luminescence of the monitor) PROBLEMS... WILL FALL ON YOUR HEADS... UNTIL THEN... WHILE YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND IT ALL... YOURS... MATERIAL SYSTEMS... WILL BE DESTROYED... IF SUCCESS... HAS A KIND FEELING TO ISKCON ALL SUPERFLUOUS TEMPLES... WILL LEAVE... BECAUSE WITHOUT DISTRIBUTION OF BOOKS... SRILA PRABHUPADA... THEY ARE NOT NECESSARY The congregation as a matter of fact is not necessary for us and we do NOT NEED to support it. What for? I do not understand it. What for it to support? We here have already temple of baptists. It is the big temple and he completely euro, together with altar and of offices. In this temple remarkable relations and all well to each other. It is valid so, come, look. In a court yard of a temple there is a children's playground. Congregation it is cultural people, the most part from which is quite solid people. At parishioners good health and blossoming persons. They all heart love Jesus Christ. They especially do not penetrate into philosophy because " the God is love ". They sing many social prays. They preach on city - " come suffered and we shall accept you ". They give money even to strangers (not consisting in their church), it is the fact. What for to us to make precisely same in ISKCON? In ISKCON there should be those who preaches. And all others should be in communities as Mayapur or Alacua. There are such organizations as mothers Tereza. My dear friends, there THOUSAND those who work on hospitals and so on. What do you want to make, one more such organization? So what for? Prabhupada has based this movement with other, ONLY SPIRITUAL purpose. And this purpose will surpass REPEATEDLY all such temples and even the remarkable charitable organizations. The essence in that that should be preached simply. Unless it is difficult? NOT IMPORTANT HOW MANY the PERSON AT us IN YATRA. The quantity of people does not define anything. NOT IMPORTANT HOW MANY we DISTRIBUTE BOOKS. If you distribute much IT is WONDERFUL! But if you distribute one book in a month leaving on a regular basis IT TOO is WONDERFUL. Uniqueness of devoted service is those. Movement will be expansion (well if we want it) when those who come, will receive real education (instead of nominal). And if they will preach. How to solve such such and other "problems"? And what for them to solve? At Prabhupada were hippie therefore only because the hippie did that asked them, it is more valuable. What for to us in KC exaltation materialists? Prabhupada had addicts and similar, but they did, therefore it is more valuable. ****************************** All social problems are solved in a community ( farm - varnasram ). More anywhere there is no necessity of them to decide. ****************************** -- Different spiritual authorities, including uttama as a rule preach DIFFERENT SPIRITUAL CONTEXTS. Therefore if we are at a level kanistha adhikari - black the white world thus we shall be brought down with sense. Madhyama adhikari will really teach us how truly to understand all these different contexts because it and MAKES the SPIRITUAL LIFE. The absolute life she is very many-sided, therefore represents absolute true life siksa parampara. Or continuity of many gurus and many spiritual positions. Diksa guru initiates in relations good luck. But in any case such relations always proceed in siksa sampradaya. The concept " unique diksa guru " it is simple impersonal. This concept means that you want to serve the God directly (it possible), but it not the supreme spiritual concept. Higher concept it to serve servants of Krishna. Because Krishna it is more happy not with us. Therefore if you serve with whom Krishna it is more happy, that and you are more happy. As to Lord Caitanya in Gaura lila all approached devotees is His direct expansion in His mood. I think that it is a unique case when the person, an alive essence, can test the supreme mood of a spiritual life consequence boundless emotions Lord Caitanya. Certainly manjari Krishna lila, it as expansion hladini sakti. Nevertheless I think that there is a difference. This difference will be, that manjari have no personal desire of relations good luck, and being completely are disinterested, they reflect thus the most raised relations of an spiritual world. In Gaura lila nevertheless the person tests directly emotions Lord Caitanya. Even sakhya rasa tests them, that in the other case not possible in any way. This greatest secret Gaura lila and most likely in general all spiritual life. This "grief" Lord Caitanya is distributed in this case and to an alive essence, in it and there is an essence of message Gaura vani. Emotions Lord Caitanya are so deep and strong, that He accepts an soul, as the ally. He divides thus the mood and soul can plunge in this ocean. Actually having gone in a trace for Lord Caitanya, the soul natural in the image can completely forget the fears before any quantity of birthes and death. I would write it what to illustrate force of this mood. As Shrila Prabhupada has told at assembly Gaudia Matha - " I do not expect for direct service one thousand birthes ". Shrila Prabhupada could tell and " one million birthes ", but it would sound too pathosly. Therefore He has submissively told "thousand", setting a worthy example to all other neophytes present there.... As the God all powerfull and as the spiritual world is immense, therefore Krishna expansion as siksa sampradaya in set of spiritual teachers and in set of spiritual moods. Even Krishna! Who is a source of everything, operates in set of roles. It occurs from surplus of happiness of an spiritual world. Remaining one, uniform person, He distributes itself is boundless. Including we, the fallen souls, are Him expansion. -------- " Without what or the excessive efforts, devotee working in KC reaches perfection ". Even we can excel in the sermon without excessive efforts. Perfect society KC it does not mean that in him many materialists. The perfect society means a society of adherents, madhyama adhikari. Which clearly speak in what true which do not operate as имперсоналисты for the sake of the happiness. Which do not operate as materialists. We as a matter of fact also do not NEED the big society. It is better to have a society, but those who have personal relations. Instead of big impersonal a society where therefore many things occur not clearly as. It is possible to have any sizes a society personalists. If to preach Prabhupada's books that it is quite possible attract the FEW. But it will be those few who are interested in a spiritual life. And these FEW cooperating, among themselves and consistently and meaningly developing spiritual movement, can reach very much much!! They can reach much remaining same few people. And they can reach much, expansion beyond all bounds. In my opinion it also is the obvious formula of success.... That one person would become devotee, it in fact the big work. But if we shall give ourselves and even one person becomes devotee then there is a chance as the second him begins. Let even one would remain only devotee, we can see that many gurus do only one person devotee, why because it is effective. And in the other case we and shall see happily year after year set of sincere persons new devotees? They are joyful these persons, yes it so, but they are joyful as and consequently, that can use this movement. Correct me please if I am mistaken. Certainly in the beginning the God gives advance payment to everyone. But on the other hand, where all these previous "sincere" devotees? If they are not present, can be to us understand all as is really? If the majority of people can leave, then can be engage more particularly even in the some people? Than to be engaged "in all" and as a matter of fact anybody. Or to engage in those who does that, as should do (to distribute books). Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
