Energetical reason behind the problems in ISKCON *DELETED* *DELETED*

[Frodo 0]

Post deleted by Admin5

[Sunandaji 0]

Aparadha, again... yo should think twice before writing such stuff... maybe you think you are part of the Lord of the Rings, then please stay in you fantasy world and don't offense us.

[Kulapavana 0]

do not speak of things you know little about. if you are indeed interested in spreading love among all souls you should develop it in yourself first

[Sunandaji 0]

if you're talking to me i'm afraid that there's a misunderstanding. Frodo's post was really offensive to my Param Gurudev, i'm glad it is deleted because it was total ..

 

sorry for being so rude but i'm sick of people offending Gurus.

[Kulapavana 0]

no. my post was for frodo. you acted properly. the Vaishnava etiquette is very much in decline. the Aryan culture must be cultivated by all devotees.

[Sunandaji 0]

thanx, you're right, let'smake sure that that kind of offenders are not welcome here. /images/graemlins/wink.gif all out war /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[IconNoClass 0]

If the devotees are waging war against the offenders, then who will save the offenders?

[Kulapavana 0]

it is not war, but an attempt to inspire them to think and act like devotees. do not think you can save them all by your grace and kindness.

[Guest guest]

And I do accept there is a time to act like fire in opposition to aparadha. So please do not misundersdtand, I am not advocating tolerance to offensive speech. I just wanted to bring out a tendancy I have noted within myself. A slight change of direction perhaps.

 

I noticed my mind had me under this spell where I would display anger at other's offences as a way of covering my own from my own observation.

 

So maybe if we could see the offences of others, AND DEAL WITH THEM APPROPRIATELY and then have that recognition of their fault be a reminder of my own my own advancement would be that much swifter and more complete.

 

Best use of a bad bargain?

 

Fit For The Rack

 

[Kulapavana 0]

I agree with you. but it is hard to respect those who show no respect towards others. especially when they disrespect devotees who are senior to them in every way. that is just very un-Aryan, to put it mildly. we may not agree with everything such devotees say or do, but there is no reason for disrespect.

[Guest guest]

Yes of course, but that is not quite what I am saying. Sometimes one might display anger but that is not necessarily a sign of disrespect. I just mean we can't let that be a substitute for our own internal work which is what i found myself doing.

 

[Guest guest]

A younger devotee or a younger person will have more and more of questions or doubts which he or she might put either in nice way or ridiculing way sometimes. But a spiritually matured person is supposed to be calm in their attitudes and expression rather than firing right away. It makes no distinction between an ordinary school teacher and a spiritual teacher. Spiritual maturity lies in how far a teacher really controlls him/herself towards others at all situations.

Shree Krishna was personally put down by many even by arjuna who ridiculed Him attimes for which He asks for apology (CHapter 10 and 11), but there was no instance that Krishna got angry when He was ridiculed.

Talking about Krishna does not make one a sincere devotee. A sincere dedicated devotee is one who sublimate his/anger towards his own student who raise all kinds of question in all tones, and yet he accepts them and answers them. this is not a one day process, or over the mail process, but a long patient process.

While I do agree that there are some crooks who visits this site just to make fun of Hare Krishnaa's but it is upto us to be patient and exemplify that we are far better people in expressing ourselves rather than getting angry with a false ego and calling ourselves as Devotees who faced insult and hence the other person face aparaadha..

Before we find fault in someone how far we are perfect is still a question among ourselves. When we find answer and become patient, then we can teach others and actually they will naturally obey by themselves.

 

[Guest guest]

"A younger devotee or a younger person will have more and more of questions or doubts which he or she might put either in nice way or ridiculing way sometimes. But a spiritually matured person is supposed to be calm in their attitudes and expression rather than firing right away. It makes no distinction between an ordinary school teacher and a spiritual teacher. Spiritual maturity lies in how far a teacher really controlls him/herself towards others at all situations.

Shree Krishna was personally put down by many even by arjuna who ridiculed Him attimes for which He asks for apology (CHapter 10 and 11), but there was no instance that Krishna got angry when He was ridiculed.

Talking about Krishna does not make one a sincere devotee. A sincere dedicated devotee is one who sublimate his/anger towards his own student who raise all kinds of question in all tones, and yet he accepts them and answers them. this is not a one day process, or over the mail process, but a long patient process.

While I do agree that there are some crooks who visits this site just to make fun of Hare Krishnaa's but it is upto us to be patient and exemplify that we are far better people in expressing ourselves rather than getting angry with a false ego and calling ourselves as Devotees who faced insult and hence the other person face aparaadha..

Before we find fault in someone how far we are perfect is still a question among ourselves. When we find answer and become patient, then we can teach others and actually they will naturally obey by themselves."

 

Thank you for the ever timely reminder, prabhu. The mode of passion, whatever the apparent justification, always ends up feeding on itself and inevitably leads to destruction.

 

That doesn't mean devotees should not stand firm or react in the face of repeated unprovoked assaults on their faith, just that a carefully chosen response may prove to be more productive in the long run.

 

We are all working together, sharing a common goal, and should not feel the need to apologize for each other's unthoughtful actions. It's hard enough to somehow defend the institutions most of us are seen to represent...

[Guest guest]

"seen to represent..." should be assumed to represent...

[Guest guest]

Can someone tell me what Frodo had written that it should've been deleted immediately?

[Guest guest]

he has heavily and without any serious reasoning blasphemed sri keshava maharaja

 

he may be good in searching the lord of rings but not in searching devotion for krsna and vaishnavas

[Kulapavana 0]

"Spiritual maturity lies in how far a teacher really controlls him/herself towards others at all situations"

 

I agree, but I'm not sure I have lost control in this situation (you should see me when that happens... it is frightening /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

 

"there was no instance that Krishna got angry when He was ridiculed"

 

there is a difference in required response when one is insulted personally, and when a great devotee is insulted. do I need to give you examples of Krishna's anger towards those who insult His devotees?

 

but in general I stand corrected, I should not call myself a devotee. at best, I'm an aspiring devotee. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Can we compare Krishna's anger for our anger. Our anger comes primarily with the inner hurt of the self..I guess you did not understand what I was trying to say..

anyways you mentioned that you stand corrected which is something humble.

 

The reason why I wrote those paragraph was, we are all trying to spread Krishna consciousness in a place which is new to their culture and civilization. We cant expect everyone to have understood everything when we ourselves are still understanding a lot.. Unless we show exemplary patience for whatever we talk about, we will not be respected and we would be called as arrogant crowd who talks somuch for not following in themselves..This is something that is existing in society about Hare Krishna. We have to change that.

 

I do have registration, but dont want to register to avoid personal confrontations in this column

[Guest guest]

 

I do have registration, but dont want to register to avoid personal confrontations in this column

 

 

Sad but too true.

[Kulapavana 0]

"Can we compare Krishna's anger for our anger"

 

you were the one who used Krishna's anger as an example first, but I'm sure your example was correct and mine was not.

 

"Unless we show exemplary patience for whatever we talk about, we will not be respected"

 

there are many reasons for lack of respect. I have seen them all in my 25 years of preaching in the West, and yes, most of them have to do with our lack of qualifications.

 

"but dont want to register to avoid personal confrontations"

 

whatever works for you. unnamed guests are often semi-ignored as many of them are simply hiding behind their anonymity. I hope you do not see this exchange as personal, if you do I apologize again. we all have our own approach to everything, including preaching and dealing with confrontations. we are not all one. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Absolutely I did not take anything in personal sense,because I agree with your initial anger against someone (Frodo) for talking nonsense, I primarily did not register, because sometimes others might take in personal sense and get worked up for nothing to hear anything that is neutral..

I did not mean anything personal towards you or anyone in particular, but in general for all of us to practice that includes me too.. After so much of difficulties, I am controlling my nature of getting worked up at times, but oflate I realised that we should remain calm all the times howmuch ever we are provoked deliberately by people who try to put down thinking smart of themselves.

The ideal would be for us to explain such people in calm composed way, and if they still dont want to accept, but want to make shame of us for nothing, lets not respond anything rather than showing our anger. By showing that we get worked up, he succeeds and we loose.

You got my point.

Sarvam Shree Krishnaarpanamasthu

[Guest guest]

"...unnamed guests are often semi-ignored..."

 

Also sad but too true. For whatever reason, this forum permits guest posting. They should therefore be respected and acknowledged just like everyone else, based on the content of their posts and general conduct towards others. Surely there's enough unjustifiable divisiveness as it is. I think we all understand to some extent the psychology of groups and how those perceived as different are made to feel unworthy or unwelcome. Let's leave that exclusivity back in high school and depend on the moderators here to censure or ban when necessary.

 

"...we are not all one..."

 

So let's appreciate our differences, after all that's the very basis of Gaudiya philosophy, along with simultaneous oneness, inconceivable though it may be to many. The only personality cult I'm interested in concerns the pastimes between Krsna and Radha. A good start would be to begin our understanding and realization with The Divine Couple, appreciating how both the are equally Supreme, not that one is merely an accessory to the other. As jiva souls we are ALL infinitesmal in relation to Them and as vaisnavas each of us should see ourselves as insignificant, the humble servant of ALL. That's where the key to genuine unity and real strength lies.