Met Devotee

[Govindaram 1]

Follow on from hari-nama-diksa thread. {I am Sudhaya}

 

Hare Krishna

 

I met devotee of Krishna, the devotee believes in Lord Siva, and speaks on Bhagavatam classes for 7 hours at a time!

 

I believe KRNSA sent me somebody to guide me, he gave me advice on what I should do, I accepted chanting Om Namah Sivaya mantra for 5 years, and he advised to chant Hare Krishna Maha Mantra very regular; in fact he said this should be your priority. He said he will chant on a japa-mala for me, and give me the mala, its not like he is my diksa-guru, so no worries there, its more prasadam from him.

 

Also he advised me not to wear Narasimha Kavacha around my neck, but wear Rudaraksa bead.

 

He also said not to concentrate on reading so much, this could be taken the wrong way, but he was emphasizes the importance of chanting Manta, esp. Hare Krishna.

 

That's it, for now, I am seeing him later on Monday.

 

[Guest guest]

I agree on not reading too much. It is good to gain knowledge like this until it starts to create problems. It's not good to read about people arguing over religion and philosophy. Ruins the taste of devotion, and gives you a headache. my thoughts.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

[KrsnadasaDasa 0]

Govindaram! Do not do this to yourself! Do not do this to Lord Krsna!

 

I realize that you have great difficulty surrendering fully to Lord Krsna and his uttama-adhikari, Srila Prabhupada ... but do not give in, and take up this worship of a demigod.

 

Lord Siva is to be given every respect. He is the greatest of Lord Krsna's demigod devotees. But taking up worship of him will detour you in your spiritual progress.

 

Don't water the leaves and branches and expect the tree to thrive! Water the roots - and the tree will bear fruit.

 

Govindaram, overcome your ambitions and impatience. Accept your position as a neophyte, stop arguing with senior devotees, whether they be iskcon, ritvik, or in-between.

 

Admit your position, and begin at the beginning - 100% this time - rather than stopping any real spiritual progress before you've even really even begun!

 

Please, think this over very carefully, very carefully, very carefully before you take up this mantra japa for Lord Siva. Pray, as I shall for you also, asking Lord Krsna to give you the strength to abide, through this time of temptation and bewilderment.

 

Yes, it's true, even a little progress in Krnsa Consciousness is never lost. But this isn't a bargaining point. It doesn't mean we should abandon it altogether, out of impatience. How many more lifetimes full of distress and sorrow will it take, before you can again take up this perfect spiritual science, and start where you're leaving off?

 

You are greedy for spiritual success, Govindaram. We all are. But real success doesn't come easily, nor does it come quickly. We must push on with all out might - and with great courage.

 

You crave attention. Don't we all? But any attention from anyone other than the perfect love-attention from Lord Krsna is of no real value. HIS attention is eternal. Any other is just a wash.

 

Oh Govindaram!

 

Please, surrender your impatience, and come fully into the practises of Krsna Consciousness. DO NOT WASTE THIS VALUABLE LIFETIME!

 

Most Sincerely,

Krsnadasa dasa

[Guest guest]

In the 4th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Siva instruct the 10 sons of Pracinabarhi to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead

 

don't forget /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Guest guest]

"He said he will chant on a japa-mala for me, and give me the mala, its not like he is my diksa-guru, so no worries there, its more prasadam from him."

 

That is harinam initiation.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Lord Siva came as sankaracarya to teach a philosophy devoid of Krsna consciousness. His purpose was to reconcile the followers of Lord Buddha, who were led away from the vedic scriptures, to return to the vedic authority. However, although Sankaracarya is faultless, his teachings are for the less intellignet, and actually selfish folks who have no care to be servants of the supreme.

 

Sankara exposed his false doctrine by calling his disciples fools, and telling them worship of Govinda is the only true method of returning to identity of the self, which is called the perfection of knowledge of the self (swarupa siddhi). The followers of Lord Siva are generally what are called smarta brahmanas, who indeed worship Krsna, but only to the extent of trying to pretend that they will become Him. This may be seen as perfection, and may even be a sort of santa rasa, but this process is condemned by Lord Chaitanya, and the idea of merging into the spiritual energy of the Supreme Lord is seen by the vaisnava as spiritual suicide (thus the concern of krsnadas).

 

Dont be so desparate to get a name from a so-called spiritual source. This may be the opposite of what your goal is. Inquire from this person, have him answer some serious questions about Lord Siva, such as what is his position to Lord Narayana, and Lord Brahma. The Vaisnava knows these answers, the siva worshippers will tell you they are all equal. What they will tell you is that they are Lord Siva, and that you will be Lord Siva as well if you perfect the chanting of Hare Krsna. This is not samkirtana in any sense, it is anti-religion, because, like Sankaracarya tells his disciples, they are searching madly to be cheated.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Govindaram 1]

 

I said I would do it now.

 

No holding back now, besides I am chanting just 1 round Om Namah Sivaya {takes about 2 min} & Hare-Krsna chanting is 16/32 rounds.

 

Anyway I am meeting again today, I don't know maybe Krsna was testing me, {bet He was}, so I shall see, like I said thankyou for your post, it was very helpful. Haribol!

[Govindaram 1]

 

Hare Krishna,

 

I saw Maharaja again today, he gave me a Rudaraksa bead to put around my wrist, and also gave me a Rudaraksa japa-mala, and a stone of 'Mars' to put around my neck, he said I have a lot of problems in my life {ha!}, and they will be resolved with some work on my part, and doing as he says. Also he gave me a CD of the pastime with Brahmana Sudama, which he is reciting.

 

He also left some food while eating at our house, I happened to go downstairs and saw the plate on the Kitchen sink, I took the food for later, and put it in a plastic bag, there was some little pieces left, I though this looks ok, so I just casually ate it, for a moment I thought I had gained love of Godhead, I have never tasted Prasadam like it.

 

All in all, its been wonderful, he was very friendly, he will visit again he said.

 

I have a problem now on who I should thank, so many, esp on this forum, and well really its because of Srimati Radharani.

 

Jaya PRABHUPADA!

[vanamali 1]

Shankaracharya wrote bhajagovindam and govindashtakam, and even Hanumanji is considered an incarnation of Lord Shiva.

 

I think this guruji is an auspicious sign and will help in your devotion

 

Congratulations

[Govindaram 1]

 

Yes I am sure by serving his instructions I will gain benefit, I have been thinking a lot why chant Om Namah Sivaya, all I want to do is serve this person who came to me, in my hour of need, maybe if I serve him nice, by chanting, I can please Lord Siva, what benediction do I desire from Lord Siva, nothing at all, except devotion to Krsna devotees, no idea how that will work out.

[KrsnadasaDasa 0]

Ok then, you've made your choice. So best of wishes to you.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

Krsnadasa dasa

[Govindaram 1]

 

Haribol.

 

[theist 1]

between Krsna and Siva in proper perspective.

 

Devotee: Srila Prabhupäda, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gétä. He visits our temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krsna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krsna. So he has now interpreted that to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krsna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I’m not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...

 

Prabhupäda: Difficulty?

 

Brahmänanda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krsna says, “You can please Me by worshiping My devotee,” and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krsna. So therefore this man says, “Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krsna.”

Prabhupäda: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

 

Devotee (3): I’ve got him to accept that Lord Çiva is devotee of Krsna, but there’s no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

 

Prabhupäda: No, vaiñëavänäm yathä çambhuù: “Amongst the Vaiñëavas, Sambhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaiñëava.” So we worship Lord Siva as Vaiñëava. We gives respect to Vaiñëavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaiñëava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krsna will be pleased.

 

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupäda, he does not chant Hare Krsna, he chants om siväya namaù.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

 

Devotee (3): It’s all right?

Prabhupäda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.

 

Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krsna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...

 

Prabhupäda: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaiñëava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.

 

Brahmänanda: I was just thinking that in Hyderabad you also spoke something very unpopular when you were discussing about the worship of Lord Siva and Lord Krsna. And you used the example of the milk and the curd.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Brahmänanda: And one man in the audience, he asked you, “Who is the milk and who is the curd?” And you said that “Krsna is the milk, and Siva is the curd.” And he did not like that.

 

Prabhupäda: There is milk and the curd. So one must become milk, one must become curd. So if Krsna is the origin of everything, then He must be the milk. Sarva-käraëa-käraëam [bs. 5.1].

éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù

sac-cid-änanda-vigrahaù

anädir ädir govindaù

sarva-käraëa-käraëam

[bs. 5.1]

So He is the cause of all causes. So if milk is the cause of curd, then Krsna is the milk. Come on. (some children enter room) Cause of all causes. Come forward. (end)

[Govindaram 1]

 

That was very nice, I am glad you took the time to find this, just what I was looking for, well so there is no problem in what I am doing, I knew it all along, I have faith in myself and Krsna, Krsna sort of, I mean how am I my to know what He is going to do next?!

 

[theist 1]

But how does the person from India see Lord Siva? Does his vision of Siva line up with Prabhupada's? These are important questions.

[Govindaram 1]

 

Should have been the 1st question I asked, he is a Brahmin though from Siva-line, he knows about Prabhupada & Iskcon, he said he like Prabhupada books very much, also he recites Bhagavatam classes all over the world, and when he came to the house he did leave a purifying atmosphere, I asked him to enter my prayer room, to santify it, I wasn't very humble, but he could see that, I think he was smiling at me, for my misgivings.

[theist 1]

Nice to chant and glorify Krsna's devotee. From the conversation above you can see it is in line with Prabhupada. If you like you can chant om namo sivaya with Prabhupada's blessing as above and focus mainly on Hare Krsna as well. Very powerful. no needto seek a different guru. It will become very confusing as you go along.

 

Afterall no one can be more pleasing to Siva than another pure devotee of Krsna. And that faith you are already cultivating in Prabhupada.

 

This is one area where we cannot aford to be whimsical.

[Govindaram 1]

 

no need to seek a different guru.

--

 

Now with this I have a problem, as I said before, I am serving this devotee who is devoted to Lord Siva and Krishna, I did not take Diksa from him, as somebody suggested, just some service, thats all.

[theist 1]

of the guru is to engage others in service to Krsna. Even when a newer devotee simply askes someone stranger on the street to please chant Hare Krsna they are functioning as guru.

 

You don't seem to know much about what this person teaches or practices.

 

The Lord in the heart will see things straight if we want Him to.

 

Hare Krsna

[Govindaram 1]

 

The Lord in the heart will see things straight if we want Him to.

--

 

He already did/

[Guest guest]

Guha, the Hunter King - by mahaksadasa (from ramayana)

 

Our story begins at a dark beginning of the great adventure. Lord Rama has been expelled from his rightful kingdom of Ayodhya, due to a political manipulation of the wife of King Dasaratha, who favored the rule of her own son, King Bharata, over the rightful rule of the brother he loved, Lord Ramachandra. To avoid offense to his mother and to obey her wishes, Lord Rama agreed to live in exile, taking his consort, Srimati Sitadevi, and Lord Laksmana with Him.

 

The entire Kingdom of Ayodhya followed Lord Rama into exile, including King Bharata, who did not want to continue life without the presence of Lord Rama, but Rama tricked them into returning home, and King Bharata agreed only on the condition that he not sit on the throne, rather have the sandals of Rama rule the kingdom. As Rama gave up his royal dress, and wrapped himself in bark and simple cloth of the feral humans of the forest, the males of Ayodhya did the same. The women, however, continued to dress in fine cloth, as Sitadevi continued to do so as well.

 

As the three forged deeper into the forest, the glorious metropolis of Ayodhya became a distant memory. The branches of the rain forest hid the sun so completely that it seemed that Suryadeva Himself had given up his life in separation. As Rama and Laksmana hacked away at the dense growth, they heard strange cries that were not from any animal. Out of nowhere, a tiny, well formed man appeared before them like a comet falling from the sky.

 

His skin was like molten gold, his green hair hung loose in mats, weaved with beautiful flowers, wooden beads amd hardened forest nuts. He wore garlands of tiger and jackal teeth, precious gems and other articles. His upper body had many tattoos of various design, and for clothing, he only wore a loincloth. He was heavily armed with many weapons, arrows, spears, long bows, and other very sharp throwing darts.

 

Shiny white teeth greeted them, as the little man roared, "The sons of my friend King Dasaratha have finally come to visit me. I have not seen you since you were infants. Have you finally educated yourselves sufficiently to know that the big city is nothing but ignorance and pain for all beings? How may I be of service to you?"

 

Lord Rama smiled and greeted him warmly. "My friend Guha the Hunter, we have not seen you since the leaders of our society kicked you out for good. I remember that you used to visit us, bringing us forest trinkets and funny little musical instruments you could make on the spot. We remember that you loved our Father, but had very little use of anyone else, always getting into trouble for your uncivilized ways."

 

Guha replied, "I was a soldier for King Dasaratha for tens of thousands of years, and we fought many battles together. Soldiers always understand each other, but those who we die for never can understand. Who is that hiding behind you, Laksmana? She is unable to hide from a hunter king, because she is like the rising of ten- thousand suns at once. She can be none other than the goddess of fortune."

 

Srimati Sitadevi showed Herself, bowing gently to Her host. Guha was so happy to be graced by the three exiles that he made them a home in his forest. Taking Sitadevi by the hand, he led them to a wonderful forest hut made from grasses which kept the living space both cool and warm, depending on the comfort desire of the Three Exiles. He at once by mystic powers made his kingdom appear out of nowhere, cooks, storytellers, artisans and musicians all created an immediate festive scene. He personally prepared them a feast of forest foods, nuts, juices, legumes, all very wonderfully spiced. The exiles lived in guhas kingdom for over a year, and their happiness was greatly enhanced by Guhas brash sense of humor, his disdain for society, his political outspokenness, and of course, his music abilities.

 

One evening, the subject of religion came up in their campfire discussion, and Guha told him of how Lord Siva personally appeared to him, asking him to take whatever gift he wanted from the Ascetic God above all other gods. His story went like this:

 

"They say that the brahmana class is perfect and favored by God, but I find them to be great hypocrites. They expect all this service while they go around thinking that all others are sub-human. Well, I certainly dont care for them or their gods. A bunch of them were worshipping this statue in a clearing in My jungle, and when I asked them to at least ask permission of the owner, they threatened to curse me to become a jackal. I walked away from them, not caring for their attitude, but I was not going to let them get away with that."

 

"So they had this statue, and they carefully placed beautiful flowers each day and sang "om Sivaya Namah" over and over again, while I watched them from a tree. Each night when they left, I not only messed up their altar, I kicked their Lord Siva in the head. For three hundred years I did this, generation after generation of these brahmanas did their religious duty, and I did my duty as well, and kicked the statue as I left ."

 

One year, the monsoon hit very hard, and their temple with their statue became submerged, and the river changed its course. These brahmanas finally left my kingdom, and my people were greatly relieved. But my duty was still going on. Each evening, I grabbed a long, hollow reed, wore a garland of heavy stones, and walked under the raging river to kick the God in the head. I did this without fail for the next three huindred years, and, lo and behold, one night, the statue was gone. I felt a bit disturbed, and I felt something missing from my life, so I sat aside the river, somewhat dejected. I was soon startled by another hunter, a very tall man with ashes all over him, the moon and stars were coming from the crown of his matted hair. He wore a garland of human skulls, and his throat was purple. He rode up to me on a Bull, dismounted, and bowed to me, asking me to take from him whatever I wanted."

 

"I told him I already have everything, but someone removed the statue that I loved to kick in the head. With a grave voice, he responded, "I am known as Nataraja, the dancer. Those who think they know how to worship me have abandoned me, all but one. Never have I experianced such steadfast devotion as you have shown me. Your determination is beyond anything in the three worlds, and I have decided that I should be your servant. Since you ask for nothing but continued devotion, I shall satisfy this desire. You will surpass all imaginary brahmanical qualifications and attain much more than religion can even promise.""

 

Guha finished the story by singing about the great wars fought in the company of great generals such as King Dasaratha, Jatayu, Mucukunda and other earthly beings always called on by the gods when the demons seem to overtake them.

 

One day, Laksmana, and Lord Rama and Srimati Sitadevi were compelled to leave. They had felt that their promise of exile was jeopardized by living so lavishly in Guha's kingdom. Guha was very sad to see them go, but was relieved when they promised to return. He presented many beautiful silken threads and beads, bracelets, jewel garlands and trinkets to Srimati Sitadevi, who was the saddest of all to be leaving such a devoted friend.

 

These gifts to Srimati Sitadevi are the greatest gifts to Lord Rama, for later, while she was being whisked away by the heinous ravanasura, she was covertly dropping these beads and trinkets to leave a trail for Rama and Laksmana to follow, to the kingdom of Lanka of the Waves. Two of these bracelets were retrieved by Sri Hanumana and Angira, and allowed them to see where she was imprisoned in the grove of the demon king's palace.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The Birth of Death, by mahaksadasa 1999

 

In the beginning of time, the human beings lived in the clear air, and as their sustenance, they moved within the air without effort. The Earth was then made of pure honey, and, first a few, then many more, descended by the desire to taste the sweet flavor. An addiction developed, and though they did not require the honey, they began to eat more and more. Gradually, the human beings became too heavy to fly any more, and their wings fell off to become the world's mountains. These mountains formed a crust over the Earth's surface as well as harnessed the clouds to deliver the rains and the seeds of vegetation.

 

When the last human had landed to fly no more, male and female forms began to develop as compatible with terrestrial living. These forms developed desire for one another and were thus able to procreate the species.

 

Since at this time, the human beings were immortal, the increase of their kind created an unbearable situation for the Earth. Hearing the cries of the humans on Her surface, the Earth approached Lord Brahma, the creator. Lord Brahma was perplexed, and, finding no solution to the problem, He experianced great anger. This anger began to consume the entire cosmos with the fires of annihilation, and Lord Brahma was thus satisfied.

 

Lord Shiva arrived and immediately bowed to Lord Brahma's feet, begging, "Be merciful, O Lord, do not destroy what You have created."

 

Lord Brahma: "I have no mercy, just anger.

 

Lord Shiva: "If this were the case, I would not have come before You. Your whole creation is blasted with fire, please look upon the human beings in another way."

 

Lord Brahma: "Mata Earth begged for help, crying pitiously, but I cannot solve Her problem. I know why She cries, She is sinking in the Causal Ocean from the weight of Her people, but I have no solution."

 

Lord Shiva: "Then al creation is but ashes."

 

Lord Brahma: "I withdraw all anger and restore everything as before, but the problem remains, I have great doubt."

 

As Lord Shiva was about to leave, assured by the universal restoration, Lord Brahma noticed a being created by His six senses, a woman with red eyes and tanned skin, brilliant in beauty and ornaments. Smiling pleasantly to the Two Lords, She went her own way to the South.

 

Lord Brahma called out to Her, "Wait, Death. Kill all creatures, beginning with idiots and priests."

 

Death replied: "Never. It is cruel, go away from me."

 

She ran away, but Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva tolerated Her insistance, following her and persuading her, to no avail. Death was allowed to wander the creation without taking any life for 100,277,000,008,000 years. Lord Brahma again appeared before Her, Saying, "Death, I have not seen you for a moment, what are you doing?"

 

"I will never kill for You" was Her steadfast promise.

 

Lord Brahma looked at the winsome girl, and replied, "Then I must make them equal. You will not have to kill them, you will never kill gods, demons or human beings. I now create greed, envy, anger, and shame, jealousy and passion. From Your tears, I make war and disease. Do nothing, they will all come to You. You will not be the cause or the prevention of death, but You must greet all who come to You well in their hour. They will kill themselves, and only fools will weep over what none can avoid."

 

Upon hearing this solution to Lord Brahma's delimna, Lord Shiva began to dance, for until this time, though He had raised His foot, He had never put it down.

 

 

[Govindaram 1]

 

Thankyou for these pastimes, very wonderful.