"We Are Expansions of Radharani"

[Govindaram]

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.6.1

Bombay, December 17, 1975

(excerpt) Full

 

Srila Prabhupada:

 

The mula prakrti, the original prakrti, is fully under the control. Control means she acts according to the direction of Govinda. Yasya ajnaya, she is acting. So this prakrti is inferior prakrti, and there is another, superior prakrti. That superior prakrti is represented by Srimati Radharani. Radharani and Durga, both of them are prakrtis of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but one prakrti is meant for controlling this material world, and the other prakrti is meant for blessing the spiritual world. Two prakrtis are Krsna's prakrti. Therefore Krsna says,

 

apareyam itas tu (anyam)

viddhi me prakrtim para

jiva-bhutam maha-baho

yayedam dharyate jagat

[bg. 7.5]

 

So this jiva-bhuta, living entities, we are living entities, we also belong to the spiritual prakrti, we are expansion of spiritual prakrti. Just like Srimati Radharani is always engaged in the service of the Lord, anaradhyate. Aradhyate, it is Radharani. The Radharani, the name has come from the word aradhyate. Aradhana, aradhana means worshiping. So everyone is meant, beginning from Radharani, and her expansion, Laksmi, in Vaikuntha, laksmi-sahasra-sata-sambhrama-sevyamanam, govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami [bs. 5.29]. Here we worship mother Laksmiji, goddess of fortune, to receive some favor. But in the Vaikuntha world there are many hundred thousands of Laksmi, laksmi-sahasra-sata, and they are sambhrama-sevyamanam: with great respect, they are engaged in serving the Supreme Lord. So, we being expansion of the spiritual Laksmi, or Radharani, our duty is to serve Radharani, and through Radharani to serve Krsna. This is Krsna consciousness movement. We are missing this point, that instead of learning from Radharani how to serve Krsna, we are being controlled by the another prakrti, material energy, Durga, with weapons in her ten hands. This is our position. Therefore we are missing the point, and it is said in Brahma-samhita..., no, in the Srimad-Bhagavatam...

======

 

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Guest guest]

from Jaiva Dharma Bhaktivinoda Thakur

 

 

"O Krishna, I am Radha, who stays on Your chest during the rasa dance in Vrindavan forest.

 

Thus from Durga-devi's words we can understand that the Lord does not have two potencies. There is only one potency, who manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material potency Visnu-maya. When the potency is free from the material modes, she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within the sphere of the material modes, she is called the material potency.

 

 

The potency and the possessor of the potency are not different."

 

"The meaning, then, is that the potency does not exist apart from its substance. The only true substance is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of potencies. The nature of the potency is either to be a quality of the Supreme Lord, or submissive to His will. When it is said that the potency has pure consciousness, that means that because the potency and the master of potencies are not different, therefore, like the master of potencies, the potency also has a form of spiritual consciousness, has desires that are at once fulfilled, and is beyond the touch of the three modes. It is not a mistake to say these things. Will and consciousness are qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By itself, the potency does not possess will, but rather it carries out the will of the Supreme. For example, you have power, and by Your will, your potencies act. If you say, 'the power acted', then that means that the possessor of the power was actually behind the action. To say that 'the power acted' is only to use a figure of speech. In truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has only one potency. When she performs spiritual actions, she is called spiritual potency, and when she performs material actions, she is called the material potency, or maya. The Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) explain:

 

The potency of the Supreme is manifested in many different ways."

 

The potency that manifests the three modes is the material potency. She creates and destroys the material universes. Those are her duties. In the Puranas and Tantras this potency is called by many names, such as Visnu-maya, Maha-maya, and Maya. Allegorically she is also called 'the mother of Brahma, Visnu and Shiva", 'the killer of Sumbha and Nisumbha', and other like names that describe her different activities. As long as he remains deeply enmeshed in material consciousness, the soul is under her power. When he attains pure spiritual knowledge, the soul can understand the nature of his original spiritual form. Then he is freed from the ropes of Maya. Then he is under the power of the spiritual potency. Then he becomes happy.

 

--------------------

 

the idea is that there is One substance,one energy,

that is called Krsna,Radha,Durga or jiva depending

on what the function is of a particular aspect

of that One energy, so the jiva while it is said is coming

from Tatastha sakti also in another way of looking at it

comes from Radha,Radha is the One complete energy

and substance of Godhead as is Krsna as is Durga

or any other Swamsa incarnation or plenary portion,

they are all fully the complete and whole substance

and energy of comprising Brahman,Paramatma, and Bhagavan,

So yes jivas come from Radha,they come from Maha Visnu,

from Krsna, or Durga or Baladeva since these are all

the same complete energy/energetic of Godhead.

 

"As a vaidürya jewel manifests many different colors, so the

Supreme Lord manifests many different forms. Each of these forms

is the same perfect, complete, and pure Supreme Lord. In some

forms the Lord displays all His qualities, and other forms the

Lord does not display all His qualities. Therefore a wise devotee

may meditate on all of the Lord's qualities, as described in the

scriptures, as being present in the particular form of the Lord

that is chosen for worship".

 

Baladeva Vidhyabhusana

 

 

so Radha is there in lila,but also she is non different

then the totality of Godhead,all the lords forms are

fully the lord,the lord and his energies are non different,

So jiva comes from Tatastha,Tatastha means not fully

Chit or the complete spiritual potency which is godhead

nor Prakriti which manifests as matter,but all are

fully one with and non different then Bhagavan who embodies

all potencies,at the same time Achintya bhedabheda

comes into play,also we are different,jiva is one with Bhagavan and also

distinct because we are tatastha ,not fully chit potency,

Radha is Fully all potencies as are the other Swamsa

avatars.

 

so saying that jivas are expansions of Laksmi or Radha

is factually correct as is saying we are tatastha,or

coming from Maha Visnu,they are all the same Godhead,

and tatastha decribes how we are different then the independent source or full potency,

we come from Radha but are Tatastha or inbetween

the full potency nature of godhead and the material

potency which manifests as matter,all are both one substance

and at the same time there are differences in how that one

substance manifests,either as chit sakti, jiva sakti or maya shakti also called prakriti,

and as Bhaktivinoda stated above the energy is either

a quality of the supreme lord(chit) or submissive to his will(jiva).

 

 

[Govindaram]

 

so in other words we are the marginal potency of Krsna, and Sri Sri Radha is the Internal so we are somewhere in between, so where does Lord Siva fit into this?!

[Guest guest]

no we are not between Radha and Krsna,we are between

chit sakti and maya shakti,full spiritual energy

and "material " ,Radha and Krsna are both chit sakti

as are all the expansions,plenary portions,dhama,

vaikuntha ,paraphenalia etc.They are all 100%

pure God, and are not influenced by maya,the jiva is not and can become covered

over by Maya sakti .

 

shiva is complex ,but you can say that shiva is compared

to yogurt and milk to govinda,shiva is described in the purport to that verse in the Brahma samhita as

doing the work of govinda in the material world,

he is a qualitative avatar of govinda,although

he is subject to maya,he is not all pervading,

and partakes of ananda,whereas govinda or visnu tatva

does not fall under maya,is all pervading,and is the

source or resorvior of ananda,it goes onto explain

that shiva is not called a jiva because he has a few

more qualities then a jiva,but in essence shiva

is the same as a jiva and a jiva can attain to the position

of shiva.

[Guest guest]

 

but in essence shiva is the same as a jiva and a jiva can attain to the position of shiva.

 

 

Got a reference for that? You might not find any?

 

"The living entities are affected by maya, but although Lord Siva apparently associates with maya, he is not affected. In other words, all living entities within this material world except for Lord Siva are swayed by maya. Lord Siva is therefore neither visnu-tattva nor jiva-tattva. He is between the two." - purport to Bhag 8.12.39

[Guest guest]

 

shiva is ... subject to maya,

 

 

"Lord Siva cannot be victimized by maya." - SB 8.12.31

[Guest guest]

from Bhaktisiddhanta on Mahadeva

 

"This personality has no independent initiative. The sail adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subj ective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested."

 

prayers of Mahadeva Srimad Bhagavatam 8.12.10

 

"O my Lord, I, who am considered to be the best of the demigods, and Lord Brahma and the great rsis, headed by Marici, are born of the mode of goodness. Nonetheless, we are bewildered by Your illusory energy and cannot understand what this creation is. Aside from us, what is to be said of others, like the demons and human beings, who are in the base modes of material nature [rajo-guna and tamo-guna]? How will they know You?"

 

so the idea is that while shiva may not actually fall under the spell of maya,still he is subject to maya as are all

non visnu living entities,it is his position of

realization and the desire of the lord that keeps shiva

free from maya,but all living entities are dependent

on the will of the lord for freedom from the illusory

energy.

[Guest guest]

pasa baddha bhavet jiva, pasa mukta sada shiva

 

- from the Chhandi, of the Markandeya Purana

 

translates as:

 

when the animal (living energy) is bound (baddha; that is, when he is in maya) then he is a jiva. when the animate being is liberated he is eternal shiva (sada shiva)

 

The verse has been quoted by various Vaishnava acharyas, including Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura.