Punar musiko bhava

[Guest guest]

I've been reading some writings of various "vaisnavas"

who before coming in contact with Krsna were living

lives in ignorance of Bhagavata philosophy,like most of us

they were born and raised without this knowledge,then

one fine day they were given the mercy of the Guru

in the form of the words and association of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and their lives became

set on the path of perfection ,later some of these

people decided that they had surpassed Srila Prabhupada

in their understanding of Bhagavata Dharma ,nowadays

this trend seems to be growing and as I was reading their

writings condemning Srila Prabhupada as being beneath

their exalted ststus it reminded me of a story

I heard Srila Prabhupada tell, it deals with

the person who receives the mercy of the Guru,

then wants to replace him or devour that position,

the story is known as "Again become a mouse"

 

from Srila Prabhupada

 

 

." Punar musiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." You know this story? Punar musiko bhava. There is a story. There is a very nice story. One rat, mouse, he came to a saintly person. Everyone comes to saintly person for some blessing, you see. Real blessing they don't want. Some material blessing. Real blessing, Krsna, they don't want. If you give him some blessing that "You become very rich man and..." These are all very well, this. So this mouse also came and begged the saintly person, "Sir, I am in difficulty. If you give me some blessing?What is that?"

 

"The cat chases after me always. I'm very unhappy."

"So what do you want?"

"Now, if you make me a cat, then I can get relief from this thing."

"All right, you become cat." So he became cat.

 

So after few days, again he comes. "Sir, again I am in trouble."

"What is that?"

"The dog is chasing me." (laughter) Don't laugh, hear seriously. "Dog is chasing me."

"All right, then, what do you want?"

"Now, make me a tiger."

"All right, you become a tiger."

So when he became a tiger he was staring on the saintly person like this.

 

So he asked, "Why you are staring upon me? You want to eat me?"

"Yes."

 

So he again curses, punar musiko bhava: "Again you become mouse. Again you become mouse." So that is our position. We are advanced in civilization. Now we want to kill God. So we are again going to be uncivilized, to remain in the forest and to remain naked. Actually, they are practicing that: nature's way. So again they are going to be aborigines. And that is being practiced. They are going to the forest, they remain naked. So actually, punar musiko bhava: "Again become mouse." Civilized human being means God conscious, happy life, no trouble, no enviousness, everything happy, no hard labor. Why hard labor? Everything is there. You just employ your little intelligence, you get sufficient food by grains, by fruits, by flowers, milk. There is no difficulty if we remain in our own way. So that is the difficulty, that we do not know that our ultimate goal of life is God-realization. Then God has got all arrangement."

 

[Guest guest]

I was reading at one of their sites, an ex iskcon guy from back in the 60's,

he went to india and got involved with other traditions within the Chaitanya school

and concluded that the power of a mantra is only present when it is recieved

within a chain of gurus,anyone outside that chain who doesn't recieve the mantra

from that succession is recieving a dead mantra.

 

in other words he claims as i guess many others do who he learned this from

is that if you attempt to connect to God through a mantra ,God will not

respond to that endeavor unless you recieved that mantra from

baba booie such and such,who in turn recieved it from his guru

baba louie and on and on.

 

In this conception we have the power of the mantra not within the control of

God,but within the control of humans,in effect it is saying God is subordinate

to the mantra,the mantra is not effective unless touched and transmitted

by humans,therefore the mantra cannot have power in and of itself,

God is forbidden from empowering the mantra,He is locked out

by the human chain of command.

 

In this way they have fashioned a theory of disciplic succession which

conveniently leaves out all those who are not submitting to them

as being keepers of the secret as being fake .

 

This is their central argument,if you are not connected to them

then your mantra is ineffective due to God having his hands tied,

God needs a permission slip from some businessman in calcutta.

[krsna 3]

You're doin alot of homework

[Guest guest]

chanting mantra without guru is ineffective for reaching krishna in the sense that He does not bring krsna but He brings, soon or later, the real guru who will connect us to the parampara making possible the connection with krishna..

 

so mahamantra has to be chanted at any stage of life, at any level of advancement

[Guest guest]

In various discussions from various schools of thought we often hear

of the concept of the necessity of recieving the gayatri mantras

from a preceptor in a lineage of mahants

in order to delve into or recieve the proper result desired,i.e such and

such rasa.

 

Various noted personalities like Narayana Maharaja have gotten a lot

of flack for this concept of the necessity of gayatri mantras due to

the mantra itself being necessary for the higher revelations.

 

this is correct ? yes ?

 

Where is this supported other then commentaries ?

 

My understanding is that the mantra is a tool for meditation,

the revelations do not come from the mantra itself,

by that i mean Bhagavan is the revelator and independent

of rules concerning mantras,Bhagavan is revealing or not

with mantra or not,mantra is subordinate to Bhagavan and therefore

mantra is empty words unless Bhagavan participates in the mantra,

no chain of command or person has the ability to empower a mantra

as the empowering is not like a magical incantation rather it is the supreme

manifesting to the sadhaka by divine choice regardless of any other

consideration.

 

This concept of the necessity of specific mantras from specific sources

to realize a desired goal negates the role of the divine will, the divine will

is made subordinate to a formulaic method of revelation,by that i mean

the divine will is the only thing which can reveal or hide desired

jnana or experience,the formulaic idea is that of the magical incantation

which puts the power of the mantra squarely in the hands of the sadhaka,

he will recieve the desired goal if he follows the methodology given and will

not recieve the same without that process.

 

This is a magical or gnostic approach to the divine,the belief that the divine will

can be controlled by our actions or inactions is the essence of the

magical ,mystic or gnostic path which posits our ability to control our destiny

based on manipulation of words or concepts within our mind.

 

My understanding is that all revelation is divine providence,regardless of any attempt utilizing mantra or tantra or any other esoteric tool, the reality

is that we exist under the will of the divine desire,in this concept any mantra

or sadhana is essentially unnecessary if the divine will desires,or conversely

necessary if the divine will desires,the basic premise is that there are

no absolute rules for revelation ,revelation is independent

of all forms or systems utilizing the ascending process prescribed in any

methodology of any school.

 

A mantra is not an independent thing,it has no power for anything in and of itself

regardless of it's source or complimentry jnana,a mantra is nothing more

then a tool for the use of the divine and the effectiveness of the mantra

is not within the mantra or anything attached to it,the effectiveness is nothing

more then divine will outside of the control of a mantra,guru,or any form of

knowledge we associate with the mantra or guru.

 

so those who insist of the necessity of a mantra,any mantra are

not seeing as I do, I believe the mantra is like a knock at a door,

the people inside may allow you entrance or not it is out of your hands,

at the same time they may send an invitation out to anyone they choose

even if those people are unaware of the address ,the mantra is not in control,

the guru is not in control,we are not in control.

 

Of course there are those who will insist that the mantra is non different

then the divine ,with them I differ, the mantra is a tool to access the divine

but the divine is not subordinate to the mantra ,just like if you

insist that the mantra must be empowered by a guru I also insist

that the mantra is not empowered itself but rather it is the divine

will that is the relevant potency,being an autocrat and supremely

independent the divine will can do as it likes and all formulas

are subordinate to this conception.

 

comments ?