Tolerance And Freedom Of Worship

[Guest guest]

-the solution is not up to iskcon,it is up to the other

sect leaders,if they would be very strict in ordering their

disciples not to disturb the preaching effort of iskcon

by trying to present their gurus as superior and better

acaryas to the iskcon congregation,then there would be no problem.

 

in this way it is like to say that every iskcon devotee is stupid and ready to accept anyone because he is proposed with a certain energy or fanaticism.. i don't think so.. and ultimately, what's the problem if i hear about a pure devotee by a fanatic while i am in your house and i go to take shelter? offer to me the same quality and i remain there with no need to look outside... krsna can act also in a non "politically correct" way...

 

I am not saying that in iskcon there's not quality, for what i can see, i see many pure devotees able to bring people back to godhead.. i want only to say that the organization is defended by quality, not by esclusivism, generalization and cathegorization that are actually offences... and if i make offences it is natural that vaishnavas, serious spiritualists go away from me

 

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-If they want to continuously preach the manjari bhava

 

you are criticizing narayana maharaja and his followers, and, without discussing now if you are right or wrong, you are estending this criticism to all other non iskcon maths making of course a very dangerous generalization and semplification.. aparadha.. so be more selective and personal

 

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-At the same time the devotees who are allowed in iskcon

at the present and are not iskcon initiated should be the example for all of iskcon,and the other missions.

 

this is nice and right... excluding/ admitting in the temple and at the services/activities has to be done on personal basis, not on cathegory basis... if one is a disturb, an offender has to be accompanied at the exit door.. no doubt. So if one want to attend the temple, to join, to help or serve has to have an excellent behaviour.

[Guest guest]

-If they want to continuously preach the manjari bhava

 

you are criticizing narayana maharaja and his followers, and, without discussing now if you are right or wrong, you are estending this criticism to all other non iskcon maths making of course a very dangerous generalization and semplification.. aparadha.. so be more selective and personal

 

i am not criticizing any specific guru,in fact not only one is doing this,and not only gurus are doing this.

 

 

the point is made in a general way,if the shoe fits wear it.

 

 

-the solution is not up to iskcon,it is up to the other

sect leaders,if they would be very strict in ordering their

disciples not to disturb the preaching effort of iskcon

by trying to present their gurus as superior and better

acaryas to the iskcon congregation,then there would be no problem.

 

in this way it is like to say that every iskcon devotee is stupid and ready to accept anyone because he is proposed with a certain energy or fanaticism.. i don't think so.. and ultimately, what's the problem if i hear about a pure devotee by a fanatic while i am in your house and i go to take shelter? offer to me the same quality and i remain there with no need to look outside... krsna can act also in a non "politically correct" way...

 

many iskcon devotees and congregation are in fact neophytes

with very little learning in gaudiya siddhanta,the problem is that iskcon is for the propagation of the bhagavata philosophy and not for the propagation of gurus and their

pet theories about their exalted state of manjari bhava,

those persons who believe in those things can do so,but

in iskcon programs they should respect the acarya's wishes.

 

the last thing iskcon needs is the preaching about

some guru who goes against the wishes of the iskcon founder acarya,

they should respect those desires and leave their manjari

bhava at the door,,cooperation means respecting

each other,if you cannot respect the acarya of iskcon

why demand respect back from iskcon ?

[Guest guest]

when other math's acaryas say that they are iskcon acaryas,or they are iskcon successors of Srila Prabhupada,but at the same time openly preach in a way that goes explicitly against the iskcon founder,even going as far as telling that they themselves are giving the higher or more advanced message,demeaning the iskcon founder acarya as a lower person,beneath them,,disrespecting

his mission by attempting to fool ignorant people into

thinking that these different missions and acaryas are no different or better then the founder acarya of iskcon and are actually iskcon themselves,

they should not expect a warm welcome for their cheating

ways in iskcon,if a christian is telling he is iskcon

should he be allowed a forum in iskcon to distort the

real intent of the founder acarya ?

 

would these other acaryas allow that for their missions ?

 

but they demand access for their schemes within iskcon,

we are not so foolish.

[KrishnaBhakta 0]

Can someone direct me where I can buy a pre-1977 Bhagavad Gita as it is?

--------Dervish

 

Hare Krishna

 

you may buy the original version of the Bhagavada Gita, As It Is, from:

http://bhaktivedanta.org/gita/

[Guest guest]

"the point is made in a general way,if the shoe fits wear it."

 

no problem, but if you think and and say that it is a general way in "non iskcon" maths it is an offence, very simple

 

"many iskcon devotees and congregation are in fact neophytes

with very little learning in gaudiya siddhanta,the problem is that iskcon is for the propagation of the bhagavata philosophy and not for the propagation of gurus and their pet theories about their exalted state of manjari bhava"

 

"the last thing iskcon needs is the preaching about

some guru who goes against the wishes of the iskcon founder acarya,

they should respect those desires and leave their manjari

bhava at the door"

 

"when other math's acaryas say that they are iskcon acaryas,or they are iskcon successors of Srila Prabhupada,but at the same time openly preach in a way that goes explicitly against the iskcon founder"

 

yes.. you're right, call me and i will help you to bring them at the door because simply, whatever name or definition they have, they are disturbing.. but is this the reason to stop innocent vaishnavas, with good behaviour to go to a temple and to serve? because one, two, ten or some gurus do like that? every one who choose to take initiation from a non iskcon guru is simply an ignorant listening to some rascal deviated? better not to generalize

 

my understanding is simply that the exclusion or the inclusion in attending and in the service also has to do very carefully on personal basis, otherwise APARADHA. No situation can justify a bad behaviour against a vaishnava, if a leader is searching for easy ways to do his job (those with blonde hairs... friends... those with blue shirts.. enemies!!) .. better to stop doing it, this way to act is useless and dangerous in both transcendental and political plane

[Guest guest]

every one who choose to take initiation from a non iskcon guru is simply an ignorant listening to some rascal deviated? better not to generalize

 

i agree,and in fact many do serve or associate within iskcon,like i said at an earlier post every temple is unique

and has their own style,some are strictly following the gbc mandate to not allow non iskcon initiated devotees

regardless of their behavior and others do not follow that mandate.

 

the gbc mandate needs to be changed and i am sure it will be,but they dont think that non iskcon initiates are bogus

they just are very wary of their motivation or hidden motives,i cant blame them for this.

 

So it is up to the leaders of the other maths to be

very vocal and strict with their followers,if that is done

then iskcon will be more accomodating,why wouldn't they ?

 

they would love to have an infusion of devotees to help,

but if the result of this allowance leads to the attempt

to remake iskcon in the image of the other maths what recourse do they have ?

 

We must all see eye to eye and realize that Mahaprabhus mission is not for the propagation of gurus,it's not for the

propagation of manjari bhava,it is for the propagation

of Srimad Bhagavatam,Bhagavad Gita,and the association

of the vaisnavas.

 

some want to preach guru consciousness and their related

"higher' understanding, this is clearly an attempt

to subvert and gain power by directly claiming

superiority or by implying it,this needs to end,

we all know this is true and that many see iskcon as

being taken over by unqualified people, you can have your opinion ,but dont preach that and then expect iskcon

to welcome you or your organization,they have a job to do

and trying to "elevate" them will only make them more

resolved against those they percieve as wanting to take their power away,so be intelligent,they are not fooled by the "sincere" people who are "dismayed" by iskcon's rough stance,it is obvious to anyone who has been keeping up with all this, the majority of the non iskcon devotees would love

to see the leadership of iskcon to be taken into their own

hands,and they use their "superior" guru and "higher"

teaching as a tool for their plans.

 

this is obvious,and needs to stop for everyone to

work together.

[Guest guest]

"So it is up to the leaders of the other maths to be

very vocal and strict with their followers,if that is done

then iskcon will be more accomodating,why wouldn't they ?"

again this is not the problem, your problem, ... you are putting the discussion on the collective plane, not personal..

 

if i am initiated by a total rascal but my behaviour is good, sattvik, devotional the president's duty is to make me enter and serve according my guna and karma (in the temples, with any problems are serving and attending disciples of sai baba or osho.. maharishi.. new agers.. yogananda's...)

 

if i am initiated by the most effulgent acharya of the math but my behaviour is not good i have to leave

 

to say: " you go out because your guru and godbrothers consider iskcon a conquest territory" is an offence... we have seen billions of devotees (the first in the mirror when i wash my teeths) not following properly the guru, so also for this simple reason let's treat him at least like a normal guest if not a respectable vaishnava

 

the problem is to how honour vaishnavas.. we are now speaking of , at least, treating them as normal guests and not as untouchables... isn't it funny?

 

hare krishna