what I appreciate about ISKCON gurus and the GBC

[theist 1]

I would be interested to see someone separate the siksa from diksa. You talk about them like two completely separate objects.

 

I have to question that observation.

[Guest guest]

 

I would be interested to see someone separate the siksa from diksa. You talk about them like two completely separate objects.

 

 

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami examines guru tattva in Bhakti Sandarbha.

He says that there are two kinds of guru

SarAga – with material attachments – their influence is not enduring

NirAga – without material attachments .

 

A guru who is

- parama bhagavata bhakta (topmost devotee)

- adept in relishing bhakti rasa

- evoking spiritual emotions in others

- capable of extracting the essence of any thing (saragrAhi)

is known as nirAga vakta.

 

He than says that there are three types of guru

1. Sravana guru, who gives instructions on

- bhaktas

- bhakti

- bhagavat –tattva

2. Sikza guru is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

gives instructions on bhajana which is specifically suitable to the bhava of his disciple

 

atha Sravana guru bhajana Sikza guroh

prayakam ekatvam iti tathaivAha

from Bh. Sand. Ann.206

The Sravana and bhajana Sikza guru are usually the same.

3. DikSa guru (mantra guru) is one who

- gives a mantra for worshiping according the rules of the scriptures

- should posses all symptoms of a mahat puruSa sad guru

- have direct experience and realization of bhagavan

- well conversant in the conclusions of the Sastra

- expert in expounding the conclusions of the acaryas

 

There is only one dikSa guru.

Normally the dikSa guru is also the bhajana Sikza guru. If not, one should accept a sad Sikza guru.

 

If guru

- has become inimical to vaiSnavas, Sastra, bhakti

- has become engrossed in sense enjoyment

- is lacking discrimination on what is duty and not

- is foolish

- is not following Suddha (pure) bhakti

should be given up.

One should take dikSa again from vaiSnava sad guru.

 

Your servant the neophyte

[Guest guest]

Hari bol Prabhu!

 

GBC mention in sastra. In kali my work comission no little 6 man for religion. It is speak some purana. ( I am not memori now ).

 

It is right about GM-ISKCON I agree.

 

Any true "ritvik" will be true guru. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

 

Any true "ritvik" will be true guru.

 

 

 

ritvikvani fight hard to demonstrate that we do not need a guru, because of the history of the gurus of that institution you wonderfully reprezent.

 

 

the fool

of Her Majesty

[Guest guest]

In reply to:

--

 

Any true "ritvik" will be true guru.

 

 

 

--

 

Any true "ritvik" will be true guru. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

It is originally text. You no correct quote Prabhu.

 

Your guru self spiritual born? Yes-No?

 

We do need a guru, but true guru, not self glorification guru for fool disciples.

[Guest guest]

 

Any true "ritvik" will be true guru.

 

It is originally text. You no correct quote Prabhu.

 

Your guru self spiritual born? Yes-No?

 

We do need a guru, but true guru, not self glorification guru for fool disciples.

 

 

Generally that is the basis of Vaishnava-aparadha. When someone has been accepted by the Lord, and He is gradually purifying him, and we give particular attention to the remnants of impurities and difficulties in him, the result is that all those difficulties will be transferred to us. This is the actual experience. If I especially mark the fault of another devotee, that will be transferred to me. It happens. In our experience and also in the shastra we have seen this.

 

Avidya - Anarthas - speculations - aparahdas

 

the copy-man

[theist 1]

Your attempt at explaining how one can totally separate diksa and siksa failed, try again.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami examines guru tattva in Bhakti Sandarbha.

He says that there are two kinds of guru

SarAga – with material attachments – their influence is not enduring

NirAga – without material attachments .

 

A guru who is

- parama bhagavata bhakta (topmost devotee)

- adept in relishing bhakti rasa

- evoking spiritual emotions in others

- capable of extracting the essence of any thing (saragrAhi)

is known as nirAga vakta.

 

He than says that there are three types of guru

1. Sravana guru, who gives instructions on

- bhaktas

- bhakti

- bhagavat –tattva

2. Sikza guru is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

gives instructions on bhajana which is specifically suitable to the bhava of his disciple

 

atha Sravana guru bhajana Sikza guroh

prayakam ekatvam iti tathaivAha

from Bh. Sand. Ann.206

The Sravana and bhajana Sikza guru are usually the same.

3. DikSa guru (mantra guru) is one who

- gives a mantra for worshiping according the rules of the scriptures

- should posses all symptoms of a mahat puruSa sad guru

- have direct experience and realization of bhagavan

- well conversant in the conclusions of the Sastra

- expert in expounding the conclusions of the acaryas

 

There is only one dikSa guru.

Normally the dikSa guru is also the bhajana Sikza guru. If not, one should accept a sad Sikza guru.

 

If guru

- has become inimical to vaiSnavas, Sastra, bhakti

- has become engrossed in sense enjoyment

- is lacking discrimination on what is duty and not

- is foolish

- is not following Suddha (pure) bhakti

should be given up.

One should take dikSa again from vaiSnava sad guru.

 

Your servant the neophyte

[Guest guest]

***Generally that is the basis of Vaishnava-aparadha. When someone has been accepted by the Lord, and He is gradually purifying him, and we give particular attention to the remnants of impurities and difficulties in

 

Some western people not have reason.

[Guest guest]

"Admit it! Without ISKCON you are all failures in spiritual life. "

 

you are a failure, you cannot write a word without adding critics and offences!!

 

you are very good writing in this forum, but the vaishnava system is to go to the devotee or guru that you criticize and challenge him in a public vaishnava assembly

 

everyone is able to criticize when the people are not there

 

make a public challenge to narayana maharaja or other people you criticize, and beat them with shastra and logic... in this way you will save people, the critics you are doing here are only for your self gratification (maybe covering some unhappiness and frustration)

[Guest guest]

***"Admit it! Without ISKCON you are all failures in spiritual life. "

 

Yes. ISKCON - Gaudiya vausnavas work toghether? not alone proud - materialistic sects.

 

***you are a failure, you cannot write a word without adding critics and offences!!

 

He is not do offences.

 

***you are very good writing in this forum,

 

Yes.

 

***but the vaishnava system is to go to the devotee or guru that you criticize and challenge him in a public vaishnava assembly

 

Forum is public vaishnava assembly.

 

***everyone is able to criticize when the people are not there make a public challenge to narayana maharaja or other people you criticize, and beat them with shastra and logic...

 

No problem. We write so match they not have answer.

 

in this way you will save people, the critics you are doing here are only for your self gratification (maybe covering some unhappiness and frustration)

 

You covering frustration blind sraddha and materialistics motives - "you in right way, another fools', 'you develop wery wery big love' /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif wery big love for self.

 

YOURS people in Russia preach - "Prabhupada dead". Rascals.

[Guest guest]

"YOURS people in Russia preach - "Prabhupada dead". Rascals. "

 

i have no people, i am not a leader or a guru.. in my opinion you are attempting to kill prabhupada taking away from his teachings the principle or guru/disciple and vaishnava association and etiquette

 

go face to face and challenge... chaitanya mahaprabhu in varanasi did not send letter or messages

 

the weakness of your argument is revealed by your overcritic behaviour and complete unconsciousness of vaishnava behaviour (of course in your messages... i do not know your life), any philosophy who does not help to became humble is surely wrong

 

 

[Guest guest]

**"YOURS people in Russia preach - "Prabhupada dead". Rascals. "

 

***i have no people, i am not a leader or a guru..

 

You follower NM?

 

***in my opinion you are attempting to kill prabhupada taking away from his teachings the principle or guru/disciple

 

I am not taking away from his teachings the principle or guru/disciple. You no understand, then i am write ...western poeople...I am write for Guruvani - "has true GURU". It is write for accept GURU. I am hope Guruvani understand me.

 

***go face to face and challenge...

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif) boy. What you name "face to face". /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***chaitanya mahaprabhu in varanasi did not send letter or messages

 

You may go in Russia in may house. I am take for you address if need. You or any yours followers or all toghetzer.

 

***the weakness of your argument is revealed by your overcritic behaviour and complete unconsciousness of vaishnava behaviour

 

I am not speak - " I am follower SP. Then speak SP dead, I am SP.vaishnava behaviour". Yours organizations do -

 

1. To request forgiveness publicly for SP.

2. To request forgiveness publicly for all guru ISKCON. which you offences constantly "vaishnava behaviour".

 

***(of course in your messages... i do not know your life), any philosophy who does not help to became humble is surely wrong

 

Search citation SP for humble. Humble stay in ISKCON or work for ISKCON like Atmatattva Prabhu it humble. Distribute prasad it humble. Distribute books for SP it humble it love.

 

Go in ISKCON - GBC it is HUMBLE. Humble follow for acarya. It humble.

 

Humble see - "I am low. Another high." Proud - ""I am high. Another low."

 

No needs to support students singly. Yes, sometimes to guru it asserts itself for the good of students. But in ISKKON for similar there is no need. ISCON it is true spiritual family.

[Guest guest]

You follower NM?

(no but it is irrilevant in this discussion, i do not need to be disciple of a vaishnava to be disturbed by offences directed to him)

I am write for Guruvani - "has true GURU"

(prabhupada has bult a house where all the world can stay.... there's no objection)

You may go in Russia in may house. I am take for you address if need.

(i am not criticizing you, i do not need to came to you to challenge, if you think that NM or others are not good your duty is to meet them publicly, defeat them and save many innocente devotees... otherwise it is only useless gossip )

1. To request forgiveness publicly for SP.

2. To request forgiveness publicly for all guru ISKCON. which you offences constantly "vaishnava behaviour".

(are you speaking of some one you know? tell these things to him not to me... you are a very nice guruvani disciple)

 

[Guest guest]

***You follower NM?

(no but it is irrilevant in this discussion, i do not need to be disciple of a vaishnava to be disturbed by offences directed to him)

 

For who you follow? GM? ISKCON? Babaji? Impersonal?

 

There no do offences. Where offences?

 

***I am write for Guruvani - "has true GURU"

(prabhupada has bult a house where all the world can stay.... there's no objection)

 

I am read home, not understand.

 

***You may go in Russia in may house. I am take for you address if need.

(i am not criticizing you, i do not need to came to you to challenge, if you think that NM or others are not good your duty is to meet them publicly, defeat them and save many innocente devotees... otherwise it is only useless gossip )

 

SP it will correct them, if foolish students not are interfere. We defeat them in some questons meet them publicly. What you see not thus? In any event NOT YOU define that must occur and as. It is right?

 

***1. To request forgiveness publicly for SP.

2. To request forgiveness publicly for all guru ISKCON. which you offences constantly "vaishnava behaviour".

(are you speaking of some one you know? tell these things to him not to me...

 

Ok. It is not for you. It is for him . /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***you are a very nice guruvani disciple)

 

Yes I am servavt Guruvani. This is no mistake. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Hare Krisna Prabhu, I am not mutch understand English. Firgive me.

 

and your servant kailasa.

[Guest guest]

For who you follow? GM? ISKCON? Babaji? Impersonal?

 

 

(led zeppelin........ post samadhi for bonham)