Guest guest Report post Posted July 15, 2003 Hare Krishna Theres sense gratification, but can you have <font color="blue"> transcendental gratification </font color> , even if you are still on the material platform? I hope people know what I am saying....Haribol! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted July 15, 2003 Hare Krishna Thats my post! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I_love_krishna_ 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2003 like the gratification we get as if we need nothing of the material nature when we chant the Mantra? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 15, 2003 Sense awareness is there. Is it ok to feel pain if you stub your toe? You feel it but don't delve into it. Stay aloof. It will pass. Getting a foot massage is pleasureable and healthy. But don't dive into it. Don't aspire for it. It may come it may not. But even if it does it won't last long. As I see it the trick is to keep focused on Krishna even when this temporary states of mind appear. Don't foget Krsna to try and block them. That will only intensify their presence. Don't scratch an itch. I have met devotees that almost fear experiencing the plesant sensation of the sun on their skin. Or a cool breeze. So many natural simple pleasures. Entering a pool of clean water for a swim. A walk in the forest breathing deep, gazing up into the night sky, deeply appreciating the beauty that goes into making a flower. All these natural pleasures have been appreciated from the beginning of man. In one way we can take in the simple pleasures of life like a child. "For such is the kingdom of God" The trick is to somehow appreciate Krsna's presence in them at all times without become overly attached to the experience. Just add Krsna. He is the one constant object of sensual attraction. If we artifically try to renounce even these simple sattvik pleasures we run the risk of that repression eventually exploding out in some way later on. The body and the mind which is conditioned to experience human life have necessary experiences. Premature bodies grow MUCH more rapidly when given a lot of human touch. Krsna consciousness is not like entering a sensuary deprivation chamber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yasodanandana 0 Report post Posted July 15, 2003 it is surely possible to have gratification chanting hare krsna or doing sadhana, but most of the time for most of neophite sadhakas is subtle material gratification.. a little pride, the satisfaction of have completed our duties, our behaviour changing from tamasic/rajasic to sattvik etc.... maybe nothing gross or bad, but subtly material and the main feature of authentic spiritual bliss is steadiness if we go back and forth between sense gratification or spiritual bliss.. or between happyness or sorrow, fear of death, frustration...... .....we are not experiencing spiritual bliss but there's no problem and definitely it is not up to us... introspection is nice but speculation is not so nice let us follow the precept of the spiritual master, chant hare krsna and we will reach that bliss for the mercy of sri guru - gauranga now beeing conditioned, it is not even possible to see what is trascendental or material we have to put all our faith in the mahamantra... let us chant and let us be happy to have received the most effective medicine to find joy, eternity and consciousness ... obviously i am speaking for me, i do not know you, and i have to assume that any devote is a krsna associate, so please do not take what i have said as an offense Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Hare Krishna I have faith in the Maha-Mantra, but sometimes, when I have NO sense-gratification, my MIND feels dulled out, like spaced out, I'm sure other persons might have experienced this, what to do? Thats what I was 'trying' to get at out when I asked the original question, /images/graemlins/confused.gif ps. yasodanandana thank you for your humbleness, will try no to offend you...Haribol /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 What do you like to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yasodanandana 0 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 my humble recipe is the one i have applied to myself.. if possible make friends with devotees as more as you can pray everyday krsna to send you other sadhus to associate with if you are fortunate (or blessed by krsna), you will find many devotees with similar tastes for spending holidays or other moments free from sadhana and family / job / school duties in this way you will get that "relatively safe" sense gratification that you feel to need, but beeing in constant association with devotees, and having mainly devotional experiences to share, very often you will speak about krsna, prabhupad, spiritual master etc. it will be not strange if in a walk or at seaside you take your japa to finish your rounds beeing with people who eat only krsna prasadam, you will eat prasadam too and so on the principle is the same.. associate with vaishnavas... the vaishnavas bring you to the spiritual master... the spiritual master brings you to krsna.... ... . and do not be frustrated, this is the material world, do not let maya use this frustration to make you stop or reduce hare krsna chanting . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Hare Krishna Theist prabhu, i'm saying is that 'sometimes only' when i am living by the 4 regulative principles, my mind wants sense gratifiction (anything even a slice of pizza!), and it feels sort of dulled?!, but thats because I have no devotee association ...Hopefuly with Radha-Krishnas grace not for long.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I have met devotees that almost fear experiencing the plesant sensation of the sun on their skin. Or a cool breeze. So many natural simple pleasures. Entering a pool of clean water for a swim. Are you really serious? In my 30 years of contact with devotees, I have never met such individuals. Sounds like something from the Twilight Zone. Then again, they may be some very advanced souls, so I don't want to commit any offense. As jivas, part and parcel of Krishna, we have the same propensity for seeking pleasure (ananda) that Krishna does. When one becomes a pure devotee, he only seeks Krishna's pleasure, and Krishna only seeks the pleasure of his devotee. But pleasure is always there. These devotees that you're talking about, do they also deny themselves the pleasure of prasadam? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Oh.lol So Chant sri Vishnu three times and have a slice of veggie pizza. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 early 1971. small temple somewhere I joined up. We were gathering at the door getting ready for street kirtan. I tapped the tamborine 3or4 times against my leg and was immediately severly verbally chastised for indulging in sense gratification. I could give many other examples but there is no need. They were trying to learn...I was trying to learn...mistakes were made...success's achieved and the caravan rolls on. Maybe I was so isolated I just projected that mentality onto the movement as a whole. Anyway,I guess what I was trying to get across, was if we worry too much and try to deny some of the most basic impulses that make up being a human being it may backfire. And I am not refering to sex. I just thought of a good example. I have known many devotees that won't even smile and acknowledge others around them who are not devotees. Hopefully this was not widespread or that it is now dead. I used to go downtown for street chanting on a bus with a couple of bramacaries. This one guy in particular would make a big show out of not even letting his dhoti touch a krmi or there clothes. When he sat down he would sit folded up real small into himself, shut his eyes close one ear with his left hand and chant japa, shaking his head back and forth. But to see this guy on the pick with a book bag and he was so"friendly" etc. So I think those images must have flooded back when prabhu Govindaram started this thread. I didn't want him to take a similar path. How was I to know he only wanted a slice. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 16, 2003 How was I to know he only wanted a slice. LOL I wish we could all somehow get together for a pizza party (pizza prasadam, of course) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Hare Krishna Yes, my only desire is to eat a slice of pizza!!??? /images/graemlins/wink.gif Ohh Krishna why o why did I start this thread /images/graemlins/confused.gif (door bell) "you ordered a pizza" /images/graemlins/shocked.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I want some.Pass me a slice bro. I'll eat while watching tonights boxing. don't lament the thread. that's what got the delivery car rollin' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Hare Krishna See Krishna in everything you do, then it becomes spiritualised, then there is no question of sense gratification. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 Prabhupada spoke once of how a flower on a tree is spiritual. Not that it becomes spiritual as we offer it to Krsna. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
