Your mind is not always your friend....

[livingentity 0]

"They are driven by the chariot of mind—useless. No intelligence. No benefit. But all these rascal scientists, philosophers, they are going on the chariot of the mind, “I think.” “In my opinion,” This is their... Manorathena, on the mental platform. So they’re all foolish. They have no value. Mental concoction, useless." Srila Prabhupada; 3 August 1976 New Mayapur (France)

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Prabhupäda: Why philosophically? Philosophy means, at the present moment, mental concoction. We don’t say that. Philosophy means to find out the reality. That is philosophy, not that “I think like this. He thinks like this. He thinks like this.” That is not philosophy; that is mental concoction, hovering over the mental plane. Philosophy is here. “Keep always in your front that there is death, there is birth, and try to save yourself from this.” This is philosophy. Srila Prabhupada; 18 July 1975 S.Francisco

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Ätreya Rsi: And in this modern age, this cheating is very prominent...

Prabhupäda: No, no. Modern or old, anyone who is a conditioned soul, he has got cheating propensity, four defects. One of them is the cheating propensity.

Ätreya Rsi: Yes. But the mental stage in this age is very strong, mental. They think mentally they have found a solution.

Prabhupäda: That they can do.

Ätreya Rsi: But they...

Prabhupäda: Within mind you can think, “I have become emperor of the world.” That you can do. Who can check you? But that is not the actual fact.

Ätreya Rsi: That is the characteristic.

Prabhupäda: Yes. That is mental concoction. Within mind you can think, “I have become the proprietor of the banks, all the banks.” Madman that is. He’s a madman.

Ätreya Rsi: They have so many philosophies, but it’s all mental.

Prabhupäda: All mental. We say, therefore, don’t say “philosophy.” We say “mental speculation.”

Ätreya Rsi: Jaya.

Prabhupäda: Philosophy means tattva-darçinaù. That is described, tattva-darçinaù. One has seen the truth, he is philosopher. And who is hovering in the mental concoction platform, he’s a rascal. “I think.” This is.... Their all European philosophy is...

Ätreya Rsi: “I believe.”

Prabhupäda: “I believe,” “In my opinion.” He’s a rascal, and he is giving his opinion.

 

25 March 1976, Morning Walk, Delhi

 

 

 

[Enlightened 0]

Dude, the only reason we have the notions of Freedom, liberty and pursuit of happiness is because of philosophy. The very philosophy that ended with these results started as a mental speculation, if you want to know the proof for this, read books by John locke, voltaire, Barone de Montesque and know about the age of enlightenment in europe.

 

Think about it man, with mental speculation alone at first can you start an action.

To change something for better in the society you need speculation first about how you are going to carry out the change right?

 

Think about it man, Mind is a tool, Mind is used to avoid suffering, Mind when left uncontrolled can cause suffering. It is like the sword that protects, if you have the sword in control then it protects you or it possesses the potential to slash you, that is the truth.

 

however, With out mental speculation, we would not be here enjoying the comforts that came out of those philosophies today. It is also due to mental speculation that people found a way to avoid suffering my friend. So, how can you say that it is such a bad thing.

 

I do respect dear srila prabhupada, but his views are only views of one man. The writers of vedas , krishna and all these people , in my thinking are above these things. Please, don't try to show that philosophers are not worth anything, for they are trying to do something, even if it is mental speculation.

 

It hurts my little heart to see people trying to believe something that the other's say but never try to listen to the "antharatma" inside them.

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

I went through the public school systems and I can tell you all the philosophys I learned there are useless. It was a waste of time to listen to the stuff they taught and if I could go back I would have worn earplugs to school to protect my mind from their mental speculation.

[Guest guest]

 

 

The only way to avoid suffering is to surrender to Krishna and get out of this material entanglement. No amount of material rearrangement or mental speculation puts an end to the misiries of birth and death.

[Guest guest]

 

 

I think what Srila Prabhupada was trying to say and correct me if I am wrong is that mental speculators are not really philosophers even though we are calling them that. A philosopher is someone who has seen the truth not somoeone speculating on the truth.

[Guest guest]

Philosophy is practically as varied as thought itself.

 

Basically, philosophies are systems of thought that help us to understand or make sense of our world. It can involve definition, alaysis, categorization, etc.

 

Western philosophy has some good things to say, but Eastern philosophies are much more sound due to the integrity of the speakers and it's longstanding history there.

 

In India and much of the Eastern world, philosophy was and is a way of life: vegetarianism is based on the spiritual sanctity of life. It is philosophy by whch we discern this. And so on with the many different issues and concepts of life.

 

Just like everyone has their faith, everyone has their philosophy. And so everyone can be placed on a philosiophical scale so to speak from the lowest to the highest - the highest being the highest religious standards.

 

Prabhupada emphasized spiritual philosophy as existing in the Gita because it is free of the four defects inherent in conditioned souls. Of course, he came from a very elevated platform.

 

He saw material philsophies as a type of competition between brain busters who simply tried to beat up each other's theories. Thus, philosophy in this context is really not about the truth, but about advancing your own pride and prestige. You hang a philosophy head on the wall: "Look, I bagged the truth!" This superficial search Prabhupada saw as no better than speculation.

 

Yet, Prabhupada very much admired Plato and Aristotle. When, philosophy is employed in the sincere search for the truth, it is as good as religion.

 

Therefore Prabhupada said:

 

Philosophy without religion is mental speculation. Religion without philosophy is mere sentiment.

 

So Prabhupada is indirectly saying you can't have one without the other. The Bhagavad-gita is the finest example of this. Hare Krsna.

 

Guess Guest.

[theist 1]

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism/40168/0/collapsed/5/o/1

[Guest guest]

The best philosophy is self-evident and much of it is found in the scriptures.

 

This is not (directly) in the scriptures, but it is self-evident:

 

A dog's master is one who feeds him.

a man's master is one who gives him a paycheck.

[Narayanidd 1]

Hare Krsna,

In response to your idea that mental speculation is responsible for our having freedom, liberty, and pusuit of happiness:

 

Do we REALLY have these things in the material world? I doubt it. mental speculation is the reason why we have become entangled with material nature in the first place. Our speculation that "I am the enjoyer,I can lord it over material nature,Why can't I enjoy as Lord Krsna does?" Mental speculation is cause of much suffering.

 

your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[Enlightened 0]

What i wanted to say is that, due to the people such as John Locke and Voltaire who said " I may not agree with what you say, but i am going to defend your right to say it" and the philosopher Henry David thorow who said: The only way we can do something valuable is through non violence" and the philosopher named Baron De Montesque who said: "Too much power in two hands is the most dangerous monster that we as humans have created" are the reason for the virtues of right to speak, right to religion and right to your way of life here in the democratic nations today.

 

These philosophers came to their conclusions through speculation, speculation = thought process. They achieved their goals by their curiosity to have freedom to say anything they wanted.

Henry david thorow was followed by Ghandhi who inturn gave india the independence which was the place of rebirth for Krishna conscious movement.

 

You see, what i was trying to say is clear, with out mental speculation which leads to very good conclusions, we wouldn't be here right now. Such mental speculation that leads to conclusions is philosophy. we can't just know anything from the top of our heads like we are krishna or something. We are all humans and we rely on the thought processes of our minds. /images/graemlins/grin.gif So, kindly don't say mental speculation is idiotic, for such a mental speculation has given us the opportunities to ENJOY WORSHIPPING KRISHNA TODAY. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I honestly agree with prabupada, when his views are cleared by another post here. /images/graemlins/smile.gif he knows alot .

 

 

Sudszy. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Narayanidd 1]

My dear Enlightened,

Please accept my humble obeisances at you feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Interesting, I think I grasp your meaning more clearly. I will think things through and make my reply accordingly:)

 

Your servant,

Narayani d.d.

[livingentity 0]

"All the learned scholars have given their opinion. The mind is by nature very restless, and one should not make friends with it. If we place full confidence in the mind, it may cheat us at any moment. Even Lord Siva became agitated upon seeing the Mohini form of Lord Krsna, and Saubhari Muni also fell down from the mature stage of yogic perfection."

[livingentity 0]

The mind is the root cause of lust, anger, pride, greed, lamentation, illusion and fear. Combined, these constitute bondage to fruitive activity. What learned man would put faith in the mind?

 

PURPORT

 

The mind is the original cause of material bondage. It is followed by many enemies, such as anger, pride, greed, lamentation, illusion and fear. The best way to control the mind is to engage it always in Krishna consciousness (sa vai manah krsna-padaravindayoh). Since the followers of the mind bring about material bondage, we should be very careful not to trust the mind. -Srila Prabhupada

 

[srivats 0]

My dear freind,

 

Mind is creator of all ideas/ thoughts, it is proved that in a minute it can think atleast 20 things, All these can be fitted into 4 category

 

1.Good

2.Bad

3.Higher

4.Lower

 

but we are not utilizing all these ideas, and its getting waste , if we are able to produce only one or two ideas

those will not get wasted, this is very hard to do and if do that whatever we think will be fulfilled.

 

Rishis and great saints produce only one thoght , the thinking about god.

 

in other hand our heart knows what is good and what is bad , heart know what to do and what not do to , heart always goes for right, even if you do wrong heart will make u feel guilty.

 

For some persons heart and mind are same , for some its not , its always good to go by heart and not by mind

 

Madhava Kesava Madhana Gopala

 

 

 

 

[greeneagle3000 0]

you cannot trust anything, not even your mind. but you can make it. it's your mind anyway. why does evil things try to come out from our mind? that's becasue of our r-complex, this is where the desire, hate and stuff like that emitt. but now, you can control it if you want. you can wack me and i will say that it is not pain becasue my mind makes it real. make your mind yours. and the only thing you can trust is your soul spirit. it is the hidden power waiting to be out.

[Somesh Kumar 0]

Dear Enlightened,

 

Your name speaks for itself! And I apppreciate you for trying to Enlighten the Mahaatmaas here!

 

My answer to your point :

 

So, kindly don't say mental speculation is idiotic, for such a mental speculation has given us the opportunities to ENJOY WORSHIPPING KRISHNA TODAY.

 

 

Please don't think that mental speculation is the reason for Krishna's worshipping. In fact, it's just the opposite. Krishna's worship is taking place now in such a nice way all over the world because the pure devotee of Krishna - Srila Prabhupada, translated Krishna's Bhagavad Gita, AS IT IS! He did not put his own mental speculation in it, like some other great philosophers did.

 

When you take the instruction of Krishna, which is called Apaurusheya (Transcendental), AS IT IS, without mixing your own material mental speculation. (It's "material" mental speculation because "mind itself is material") with it, ONLY then are we really following Krishna's message.

 

For example when Krishna said

Man Manaa Bhava, Mad Bhakta ....

Prabhupada did not apply mental speculation and say that think of the formless within Krishna. But, Srila Prabhupada translated it AS IT IS, saying that think of Krishna's form. Offer obeisances to Krishna...

 

Hope you are getting my point.

 

Hare Krishna!