What`s Up in Iraq?

[Guest guest]

We must obey Lord Vasudeva`s divine order by refraining from using force against a disadvantaged enemy. It`s because the rules of battle or engagement should apply to all.

 

At the Battle of Kuruksetra, even Krishna refrained from killing the soldiers which sided with Duryodhana amd Bhisma.

There was however one exemption, when Krishna almost smashed Bhisma with a wheel after the former was about to strike Arjuna with a club. This uncalled for reaction by Krishna, who before the battle promised not to intervene in the battle between the Pandavas and Duryodhana et al, was a violation of the rules of war.

In other words, Krishna didn`t hesitate to break a rule on war because Arjuna was a great devotee of Syamasundara and Bhisma was not, so to speak.

 

But if men or nations violate the provisions with regards to how men or nations should behave as they go to war they better be sure that what they undertake is in accordance to Lord Vausdeva`s will. Otherwise they`d share the same as what happened to Bhisma when he found out that Krishna would always protect His devotee even if it violates a certain rule on how to conduct a fair war.

 

In other words, the impending War in Iraq pushed by the US, Spain and Britain is a violation of the rules in the engagement of war since it`s contrary to the will of the UN Security Council, which is PEACE and GOODWILL, if possible, to ALL GOODMEN and WOMEN, on EARTH.

 

Only BADMEN and BADWOMEN with ILLWILL wants WAR in IRAQ to take place on March 17, 2003.

 

But what a HARIBOL outcome it would be in case there`s War in Iraq.

 

So, what`s UP?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

but perhaps the wrong age. No longer do armies take it to the fields outside of town so the innocent won't be hurt. Saddam has been sheltering his armaments next to Mosques hospitals schools etc. for months. he has bee givng 20-30,000 dollars US to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers who die murdering Israelis. What do you suggest?

 

He used chemical weapons to kill tens of thousands of Kurdish men woman and children. He drained the marsh lands in southern Iraq in an attempt to commit genocide against the rival Muslim faction there that oppose him.

 

Remember the war against Iran? The war against Kuwait? Where his army freely raped robbed and murdered that population mercilessly.

 

What do you suggest?

 

Six types of agressors can be killed. Poisoner, arsonist, kidnapper, one who takes and occupies your land, attacks with sharp weapons and another one I can't remember right now. He has probably done that one as well.

 

He is a thug(gunda). His net worth is well over two billion US dollars while the Iraqi citcizens live a poor life.

 

The list of his atrocities is endless.

 

Aren't you glad the Israelis knocked out the weapons grade nuclear reactor that the French built for him in 1981? If they hadn't this freak would have started WWIII already by blowing up Televiv.

 

What do you suggest should be done? besides buring your head in the sand I mean.

 

[Guest guest]

Only virtuous men have the right to wage wars. President Bush is no worse than Saddam in my opinion. (Bush has also funded terrorists and aided genocide, the information is everywhere).

[Guest guest]

"We must obey Lord Vasudeva`s divine order by refraining from using force against a disadvantaged enemy. It`s because the rules of battle or engagement should apply to all."

 

"we" above implies that the poster is an HK.

 

HK's so far have not shown willingness to fight adharma in society. they even have spoken in favor of islam, the eternal enemy of the vedic dharma. HK's want to save the world from next world war by chanting, and none HK wants to take a challange to prove that it works.

 

now, who really listens to HK's?

 

iraq does not listen. they follow koran

that says HK's are kafirs and need to be killed or converted. US, UK, and others have sued HK's for their dharma apractice many times.

 

none of this warring parties listens to HK's.

also, no HK knows how to fight.

 

when islam terrorism is at their door step,

they want to wear dhoti and chant

while the enemy plays not mridangam but AK-47's

and granades. HK's do not realize that if they do not invoke their kshatriya dharma

then pretty soon there will be slaughtered cows thrown in radha kunda and vrindavan temples and puri temples.

 

so, suppose even if all the HK's become of one voice about how to fight a war, who would listen them?

what they know about fighting?

have they fought any one asura like bin laden and his party?

 

i wish they reduce their chanting and pay attention to terrorism and terrorists. find out why they do terrorism right from the sources they quote. then tell the world what is wrong with it.

 

the greatest thing HK's have so far is intellectual power to study critically and tell the truth they find. they do not know how to use a gun or a sword or a dagger.

so, then why should any one think the warring parites would listen to HK's opinion how to fight?

 

in this time of terroism the message of krishna has priority over chaitanyas. hope HK's understand it soon.

and then invoke kshatriya dharma.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[karthik_v]

Guest,

 

 

i wish they reduce their chanting and pay attention to terrorism and terrorists.

 

 

Why not chant and pay attention to kshatriya dharma also? I think it is perfectly possible for one to follow the teachings of Prabhupada and other countless acaryas in spiritual matters and also approach these issues in a level-headed manner. Don't we say that dharma, artha and kama are the first steps to moksha?

 

How about getting up in the morning chant 8 rounds and then work out at the gym before breakfast? Then another 8 rounds in the evening followed by swimming? Won't it make life more meaningful? But, unless we pay attention to kshatriya dharma and take the enemies of dharma (such as Osamas, Saddams, church preachers etc.) by the scruff of their neck, we are pretty much done. Let nobody forget that the absence of kshatriya dharma meant no security for Hari Das Thakur, Rupa ad Sanatana Goswamis.

[krishnaoshe]

please please tell me of this kshatriya dharma.

[Guest guest]

i agree karthik v.

you said it well. thanks.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[Guest guest]

when one invokes one's spirit to fight, violently if necessary, to stop bad guys, asuras, from harming or killing lives or innocents or taking away their freedom to practice dharma, etc. then this fight, violence, is justified by krishna in gita. such fighters go to krishna if they get killed fighting.

 

all societies have police and military.

these groups are professional kshatriyas, the protectors of freedom and lives and prolerty. they maintain law and order in society. without them bad guys asuras would rule.

 

every person has this spirin within him/her, mor or less.

 

when terrorism is everywhere, then every one has to invoke this spirit within them because the terrorism threat is so large a nd spread that police and military may no be able to handle it every where.

 

in summary, security, safety is everyone's responsibility.

if you have money, you could hire some one else to do it for you, but one has to fight when situation demands for dharma. so, one has to train and equip also to fight.

 

this is kshatriya dharma.

 

the greatest fight HK's can give to the terrorist ideology is to study koran and hadith (the manuals of terrorism and intolerance) and expose it to the world how barbaric they are. this effort is non violent and intellectual.

 

vaishnav means a worshipper of vishnu.

it does not mean a brahmana only.

 

so, HK's need to produce many kshatriyas also

till the terrorism ideology is put to rest.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Guest guest]

In 1509, there was a warrior King named Krsnaraja who ruled the southern part of India known as Vijayanagara. In those times, the kingdom of Vijayanagara was surrounded by invading Muslim warriors headed by the Sultan of Bihar, yet they were not able to conquer her. Why? Because Krsnaraja also known as Ajita was Krsna Himself. Together with His Brother, Ramaraja, They resisted these Muslims warriors from conquering the only Vaisnava kingdom left in India since all were vanquished by Muslim conquerors from the middle east and in the north.

During those times, Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was already old enough to rally in behalf of Krsnaraja and Ramaraja by advocating the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. It was precisely why the Brother Kings of Vijayanagara, Krsnaraja and Ramaraja became invicible and unconquerable because they had Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya as Their topmost supporters against the Muslim conquerors of India.

And all Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya did was to chant and sing the Hare Krishna maha-mantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Hare Hare!

If the Vaishnava Brahmanas and Ksatriyas could unite and simulate what have occurred in India 500 yrs. ago, I believe we could win these war which we direct against imperialists like Us Pres. Bush, UK PM Blair and Spain Pres. Aznar.

Can`t you see? History is repeating itself! Remember 1565, 1942, 1945-Hiroshima-Nagasaki , 1947( The division of Mother India into Pakistan and Hindu-India), 1950`s Korean war, the Vietnam war, etc.

We must uproot IMPERIALISM from the Webster`s Dictionary!

 

May the Lord Vasudeva be merciful to me

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[theist]

We will never agree on politics, of that I'm sure. The Lord has not advented Himself in the form of the Hare Krsna mantra to fulfill our particular political ambitions. I consider your political views to be very misguided. You would say the same about mine. The Krsna name has appeared to take us out of this relative condition and place us in the realm of love of Godhead.

 

We are meant to serve the desires of the Name not the other way around.

 

Chant for love of God. Preme is the goal.

 

Hare Krsna

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol, mahak here, and Im kinda leftist with a wave of conservatism somewhere along the way. I fully accept the evil of saddam, however, this evil is not performed in a vacuum

 

The reason US KNOWS that he still has WMD is that he has not accounted for supplies the US gave him to fight the shiite hordes.

 

And I resent the continual reference to the kurds as "his own people" as if they are the ally of the western interest. They are not, in fact, if Al Qaida is, indeed, training in Iraq, it is being allowed on Kurd holdings. When saddam is overthrown, the kurds from the north and the shiites from the south will make Iraq a stronghold for benladins types, so US has to occupy and hold.

 

But this is the design anyway, because to wage our real war on terrorism, we must occupy Iraq, and have full access to their resources. Then we kan kill saddams own kurds like we wanted to do all along.

 

Saddam is and was the ally of US. He was a socialist of the Stalin mode needed for the balance of power in the middle east, needed to prevent a total muslim state, ayatollah style.

 

Bin Ladin likes him, of course, he loves him now, because he is a shield as well as a propaganda tool for successful tapping by the likes of hamas and other types that have not really been at war with US, only Israel. Now we are Israel, and neither of us have ksatriya leadership, just counter-THUGS.

 

War is not my business (it used to be), I witness but do not participate. Some can wave flags of support or do stupid things in protest, but all sides are equally kali yuga confused.

 

My leftist bent can be explained as to why I am against the death penalty. Because the judge is more guilty that the one he condemns to die. Give me a Pariksit or Janamajaya, maybe his punishment (which is a perfect balance of justice and mercy) of evil doers or declarations of war will be held as something other than ludicrous actions.

 

If Iraq was located anywhere else than as the hub of former SSR "stans" and the meditterranean and persian gulf powers, no one would care. No one cares about the lethal stuuff N.Korea has because of location. Conflaggeration only melts the ice, and will not affect the oil wealth, the treasures of Solomon beneath the wailing wall (and the dome of the rock), or or "dear" kuwaiti, Saudi, and emirate friends, not to mention the secular zionists who have perfected our own doctrine of "manifest destiny".

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Haribol, in previous post, I noted "Saddam is and was the ally of US. He was a socialist of the Stalin mode needed for the balance of power in the middle east, needed to prevent a total muslim state, ayatollah style."

 

Now we see historical backing. Marshall Tito was a brutal comunist of the Stalin mode, but once this controller was gone, then the whole mess of the bosnians, serbs, macedonians, kosovians, etc, collapsed into anarchy. Stalinist types (fopr the left leaning) and Franco?pinochet type fascists (for the right) are needed for world order. Which is the USA heading. We wont use the hitler word because he was a fool, to blatant, but our seduction into accepting fascism in trade for a little security (which just moves swiftly away from us by such a choice) is wat the Chilians and Spaniards craved.

 

We are allies of Spain and Italy? A little overt for this former covert dude. And if you believe that the noriega episode daddy gave us one christmas was anything other than a drug deal gone bad, well, have a nice gulag.

 

Right and left are two sides of the same coin, yet they will soon be engaged in full scale war on these shores, guaranteed.

 

aloha pumehana, and I hope my friends of the left and of the right will see this as unbiased commentary, not declaration of war against either side.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

[Jagat]

As I recall, Krishadeva Raya spent all his time fighting the only other Hindu king in the area, Prataparudra. Hindus fought with Hindus, with or without Muslim allies. They really did not give a hoot.

 

Those plundering the Jagannath temple on behalf of the Moghuls included Hindus like Kesho Das. They didn't give a hoot.

[Jagat]

A better understanding than most. No situation is entirely clear.

 

Point number one: In world politics, the past is the past and has nothing to do with now. Example: If the U.S. supported Hussein in the past, that was wrong. Does it mean that opposing Hussein now is not right?

 

Point number two: I heard a Kurd on the radio yesterday talking about Tony Blair, that he was pushed to take his position out of a vision of the moral use of power, as a result of Rwanda, Bosnia, etc. Again, nobody wanted to act then, but should no one act now? In 1991, everyone said Bush I made a mistake in not going through to the end, allowing Hussein to kill another 250,000 of his own people.

 

Point number three: Agreed: the whole thing is definitely full of s*h*i*t, but now that it is underway, let's hope that the ostensible American objectives are achieved with the absolute minimum harm to civilian life. I would think the Iraqi people are exhausted after more than twenty years of war, sanctions and suffering. I'll bet a majority of the Sunnis are ready to surrender without a shot. The majority of Shias and Kurds are ready to support American intervention. If anyone has a right to feel a grudge against the Americans it is the Shias, who were horribly betrayed by them in 1991. I pray that this action will be an expiation for this great U.S. sin.

 

The odds are 50-50 that 50% of American long-term objectives will be met. The U.S. must not get out too early, even though the task that faces them will be thankless. It may take ten years to establish the kinds of institutions that will lead to responsible government in a country where the neighboring countries all have their noses deep into the kind of power structure they want to see--none of which is fair or democratic. If the Americans leave too soon, there will be anarchy, and like you say, the same kind of Islamicist obscurantism for which this is supposed to part of the solution.

 

One last thing: The U.S. will be very highly motivated to succeed in the post-Saddam era. They have abandoned Afghanistan and most of the other places they have intervened since Korea. They will not be able to get away with that this time. The real American objective is to change the face of the Middle East completely. I don't know where it will end, but I bet all the countries around Iraq are worried--and it is not about civilian casualities, either. It's about keeping their own putrid governments alive.

[Guest guest]

 

If one reads Indian history, Indian kings were always bent on subduing their neighbors. When foreign invaders entered the country, it never occured to them to unite and fight them off. Instead, they used to team up with the invader and destroy the neighbor. The invader would then take over this guy and this is how foreigners managed to take control over India and walked over us without much effort.

 

This happened when the muslims entered India and it was de ja vu with the British. All that Vivekananda talk about India being a peaceful nation, never invading another country in 10,000 years, etc is balderdash. They never invaded another country because they were always too busy fighting amongst themselves. The handful of mature, courageous kings were simply not enough to turn things around.

 

Cheers

 

[theist]

The US hasn't abandoned Afghanistan. They are still in there. There is some question on where the rest of the aid promised by the rest of the world is however.

 

Things can change fast. Just look at Iran. The young people there will take back their country from the fundamentalist Muslims. The Ayatollahs are fading out, though still in control. Remember in their war with Iraq the US wanted neither side to win. The expressed opinion then was they wanted the war to continue with no winners as a means of exhausting both sides. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

 

Don't look for Pariksit to appear on the world stage any time soon. It's all a steady stream of relative considerations that is always in flux. Take a thorn out with a thorn they say. I agree with them.

 

Who knows Saddam may have taken the exile route if he had been presented with a solid undivided body in the UN. But the French couldn't go along. Perhaps they were too worried about the six billion dollars that Iraq owes them.

 

All we can do now is watch and chant trying to remain undisturbed as much as possible. We can only hope life improves for the common Iraqi's to whom Saddam has brought nothing but war and fear.

[Guest guest]

May your prayers come true.Hare Krsna thesit prabhuji!

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

it is so, unfortunately,

but that cannto justofy muslims to invade india.

unity was needed, and still is needed.

cannot say we do not need unity.

it is time to wake up, so wake up!

 

if there is a fight within a house/family,

that cannot justify a neighbor to intrude and take over the house.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"the treasures of Solomon beneath the wailing wall (and the dome of the rock),"

 

could you or some one give some authorative reference links to this, if it is a fact please? thanks.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Indians are also divided among themselves.See this corrupted caste system is already causing so many problems.And what do you do about muslims?Kill them or make them get out?How?It is not efficient.Indians are also hypocrates...who sides up with who...can't understand.This is evident by the present political situation in India.If you see hindi news you will see all kinds of parties doing nonsense and eating away the country.

 

Truth is there are NO enemies.Nobody will understand this including I.And why people not talking about God conciousness which is the real remedy?

 

Joy

[theist]

Hare Krsna Joy-ji

 

 

>>if there is a fight within a house/family,

that cannot justify a neighbor to intrude and take over the house. <<

 

I disagree. In the USA there are strong laws against a man abusing his wife and family. You can't beat them and make them live in fear. They are not the man's property. The police will come and throw the guy in jail.

 

This world is so desparately in want of real leadership. In North Korea now, KimJong Sil is building nuclear weapons and blackmailing the world while 1 1/2-2 millon Koreans have starved to death in the last few years. Are we to say "well that's his business, its his country" and turn our heads away?

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

the world need real leaders but Bush is not the answer.

Not only his actions but his horoscope is not good for leadership.

 

One of my friends will be in the front line soon. He is one of the best snipers in the country and they flied him solo for his mission. We don't know if he'll come back to his family, his sister is one of my best friends and she was tonight there in the Berkeley temple praying for AA.

 

I agree with Tarun, save a tree, chop down a politician. They are all rotten.

 

[Guest guest]

 

This world is so desparately in want of real leadership. In North Korea now, KimJong Sil is building nuclear weapons and blackmailing the world while 1 1/2-2 millon Koreans have starved to death in the last few years. Are we to say "well that's his business, its his country" and turn our heads away?

 

 

 

Why then did not US address this issue first rather than going for a war with Iraq which is already crippled with sanctions for 10 years???? Do you have any answer for this Theist ji???

[Guest guest]

Oh my God guestji the situation is more serious than we can even underdtand.yesterday on indiatimes.com there was a poll in which indians voted bush(80%) is a greater threat to world than saddam(20%).I don't know who is the threat but I know troops and their families r in great anxiety and suffering.I wish americans would minimize meat eating,this way karmic reactions would lessen.And I am going to pray to Krsna for happy ending to all this.

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

North Korea has nuclear weapons today because Bill Clinton signed a deal to provide North Korea with energy and food with an agreement that they not make nukes. Unfortunately, they lied, and Bill Clinton was hoodwinked. Throughout the 90s North Korea was propped up by Bill Clinton and continued to make nuclear weapons. That is done, and there is nothing George Bush can do about it.

 

George Bush can do something about Iraq which is a threat. They do have nuclear ambitions as has been testified by those who have escaped from that regime. So do we want the North Korean situation to now occur in the Arab world, where there can be serious repurcussions throughout the whole world economy? No. Second, Iran is working on nuclear weapons even as we speak (though they claim it is just for energy???) I have spoken with an Iranian friend last year, and she indicated that in Iran there is actually a lot of support for Americans at the ground level. Now, with Iraq taken care of, you move on to destroy the Iranian nuclear weapons program.

 

After this has been taken care of, then work on North Korea. We don't want 3 North Koreas, one is bad enough. So solve the problems before it happens, rather than passing the buck to the next president (like Bill Clinton did; it keeps you popular in the short term, but causes the mess we're in now). George Bush at least has the guts to call it as he sees it, and to act decisively. He may be unpopular in the short term, but in the long run it will be for the best.