Bhakta Shakta 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2001 What is the need for Deities philosophically, when Prakti (Nature) is operating on a set of predetermined scientific laws being controlled by a Supreme Controller??? I fail to understand how Indra is responsible for producing rain. Or how there is some deity for controlling my digestion... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bhakta Shakta 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2001 Hello. Someone please reply to my questions. Don't ignore me. Thankyou. Bhakta Shakta Das. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted January 19, 2001 Hello, You did not get an answer because no one knows why. Perhaps the ancients came up with the idea of worshipping all the different forces of nature, and gave them human forms and names. But again this is all guess work. No one knows. To answer your question, there is no need for any diety or worship of any kind. People do it to play safe or to ask for something or simply to get kicks. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bhakta Shakta 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2001 Hi. I do not accept your generalization that 'no one knows why'. Someone who has studied philosophy and theology will know the answers. There is a need for deities in philosophy, and no the ancients did not just imagine it for fun. -Bhakta Shakta Das. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bhakta Shakta 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2001 You don't seem to understand. The question is, 'What is the philosophical need for dieties in religion?' This is a common question handled in 'Philosophy of Religion' type of classes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted January 20, 2001 Hi, Worshipping dieties like Indra, etc went out of fashion long back. They were replaced by other Gods like Vishnu, Shiva, Krishna and others. I still maintain that no one knows why. If you find someone giving you a satisfactory answer, perhaps you would like to pass it on to me. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
viji_53 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2001 Our goal in this life is to attain Lord. It can be done by many methods like tapa, japa , or by doing your duty or by realizing the self. Realizing the self is not that easy. You should be mature enough. In order to encourage devotion , we have many dieties in our religion. For example Saraswati to get education, Lakshmi for wealth etc. The main deity is Narayana. Narayana is the Paramo Devata. He has allotted certain jobs to certain devatas like producing rain is Varuna's job. Vayu for wind. Indra is the leader of all devas. Anybody can attain the position of Indra by conducting 1000 Aswameda yaga. Coming to the point of many dieties, a person will develop devotion if he gets something out of it. Everybody is not mature enough to attain salvation,( even the desire of attaing salvation should go , That is why 18th chapter of Gita is called as Moksha sanyasa Yoga:) So people are encouraged to ask the dieties to fulfil their desires through worship.Slowly they will develop devotion by attaining their wishes & by reciting Ramayana, Gita etc at one stage they will come to realise that Narayana is the Supreme God. Then they may slowly control their senses & worship Him just for love or devotion. That is the philosophy of having many dieties in our religion. HariBhol! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bhakta Shakta 0 Report post Posted January 21, 2001 Thankyou for your reply Viji_53. Your answer is the purpose/utilization of deities within Hinduism. I am more concerned with deities and their relation to reality. Obviously there is order and intelligence to this universe coming from some Supreme Controller (Vishnu in Hinduism?). But I don't understand the need for demigods/deities that control certain aspects of the universe/nature. I understand that the Hindu demigods execute Vishnu's will. But I am still confused about their philosophical/logical necessity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
viji_53 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2001 Dear Bhakth Shakta, As we know, our next janma depends on our karma. If a person does only goodthings , he accumulates punya, accordingly he takes next janma. Some time he may attain the position of demi gods. As in our day to day activities for example in a large company the chairman who is the controller does not take all responsibilities. He allots the entire work to a group of people. Our universe is a big company, Lord Narayana is the Supreme controller, He allots certain duties to demi gods who attained such position because of their good deeds. The philosophy behind is punya alone will not bring Mukthi for us. To get mukthi we should be beyond all gunas (Nirgunan), & have pure devotion with out any motive. Sacrifice all the desires & surrender unto Him alone. Fix your mind on Him alone & attain Him. HariBhol! viji_53 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dasha 0 Report post Posted January 22, 2001 It is sure that this is a big question ! Just imagine now that some one may prouved that there is no demigods in fact, and the nature is just "operating on a set of predetermined scientific laws being controlled by a Supreme Controller". What would that mean?: That the Vedic literature who is all base on the existence of the devas has no more reason of been, and not only that, but the pastimes of Krsna in Vrindavan 5000 years ago are all gentle stories. (Try to imagine the lifting of Govardhana without Indra !). There is no meaning to accept Krsna's teaching and not His pastimes. The all Srimad Bhagavatam is relating the activities of the devas to. Even if we think (as shvu) that "The ancients came up with the idea of worshipping all the different forces of nature, and gave them human forms and names" we are in contradiction with the Bhagavad Gita where Krsna says to Arjuna: devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha "The demigods being please by sacrifices, will also please you; thus nourishing one another, there will reign general prosperity for all" Also: antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpha-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who whorship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. So Krsna in the Bhagavad Gita clearly states the existence of these demigods. Why should we deny their existence. There is no need to worship them, because to worship The supreme Lord include to worship all the demigods, just as when putting food in the stomach you will nourish the entire body; you do not need to nourish the differents parts of body seperatedly. The principle of the scriptures is that you take them all or not at all. Still in Bhagavad Gita Srila Prabhupada says Chapter 4 text 12, in the purport: ...For one who cannot understand what the Personnality of Godhead is, sacrifice to the demigods is recommended... Dear Bhakta Shakta, you also says: "I fail to understand how Indra is responsible for producing rain. Or how there is some deity for controlling my digestion... ". When you go to the administration to get some official paper, the person that you see is a person like you and me, but that does not mean that there is not a chief above that person, and above him there is a director, and above a general director, then a minister, and finally the prime minister and the President. When you see such an ordinary person in front of you, you should nevertheless not forget that there is also a prime minister that as a view over the all things of the nation. For the rain it is the same thing: When the cloud is coming do not forget that there must be an Indra somewhere, even if it is not him personnaly who carries the cloud over you head. You may think that it is coming by the simple "laws of nature", but when there is "laws" there must be some one to edict it and to applied it. Namaste Dasha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted January 22, 2001 Hi, Yeah, you are right. Whatever I said before does not answer your question. I think your question goes like 'Since there is a supreme power, one can directly worship that. Why introuduce a Indra, etc in between ?' The early Vedic religion based on the Vedas had a lot of importance to sacrifices. They worshipped the forces of nature and paid homage to them. While it is understood that the President is the head of all, we still have to goto the police for help. Perhaps it was such an attitude that bought about all that various Gods, each specific to one function. Again this is guess work. Like you said, a person who has studied philo and theology may know exactly why. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
