Jehova and krisna

[albi2000 0]

Liebe Freunde

Liebe Freunde

 

Ich moechte ihnen gerne eine Frage stellen:

 

War Jehova auch eine Inkarnation von Krisna, oder war er ein Halbgott?

Liebe Gruesse.

 

Love of friends

 

I would like to ask gladly a question to them:

 

Was Jehova also a Inkarnation of Krisna, or was it a half God?

 

Love of greetings.

 

[Guest guest]

who exaclty is jehova? isnt that a jewish term for God? if so, then he is no incarnation of Krishna, but rather the opposite. krishna is an incarnation of Jehova (aka Brahman/Baghavan/Visnu)

 

if jehova is another name for Christ, then they both are two seperate incarnations of God/allah/bhaghavan/Brahman

[Sephiroth 0]

Jews don't accept Avatars like Hindus do but there is cases where God have said to come in Human form in couple of occassions. Also, Jews also believe that Angel (Dewa-like beings) do come in Human form also (like when they appear to Abraham in route to nuke Gomarrah).

 

Was Jehova also a Inkarnation of Krisna, or was it a half God?

 

No in both questions.

 

Jenovah is another name for God (so to speak) along with Yahweh.

 

Links :

http://dict.die.net/jehovah/

 

The meaning of the word appears from Ex. 3:14 to be "the unchanging, eternal, self-existent God," the "I am that I am," a convenant-keeping God. (Comp. Mal. 3:6; Hos. 12:5; Rev. 1:4, 8.)

 

[Sephiroth 0]

who exaclty is jehova? isnt that a jewish term for God? if so, then he is no incarnation of Krishna, but rather the opposite. krishna is an incarnation of Jehova (aka Brahman/Baghavan/Visnu)

 

Yes, it is term for God. No idea whether Krishna is incarnation of Jehova or not though.

 

if jehova is another name for Christ, then they both are two seperate incarnations of God/allah/bhaghavan/Brahman

 

Christ supposed to be a Messiah - human messanger who brings message from God to Man - born, lives and dies as Human, supposed to bring forth peace and prosperity along with Testament from God.

 

In that context, Sri krishna can easily be said to be a Messiah except for two characteristics :

 

1. Messiah supposed to be born in normal way - so divine birth is out of question (which means Jesus cannot be Messiah). Sri krishna did born though Vasuki even so it could still be considered divine birth (since there was no sexual contact) so it is debateable.

 

2. Messiah (since being human) not supposed to perform any miracles. Then again, we have Moses who performed miracles and prophecies via command of God so Sri Krishna's attics is debateable also.

 

Sri Krishna didn't play an active role in the War - same way a Messiah supposed to be in End of Times (according to Jewish Tradition) and Peace supposed to reign after a long period of turmoil and suffering.

 

So, from Jewish point of view, they could consider looking at Sri Krishna as a Messiah (God seems to be a bit stretching the boundary, no?) but Jesus still out of question of being a Messiah.

 

As for Allah ... no, Muslims will not accept since they believe their God don't send incarnations or come down Himself.

[Guest guest]

there is no such thing as a "divine" birth. divine births are either

 

1. births that cannot be understood as anything other than divine by the people living at that time

 

or

 

2. births that are declared as "dvine" by the people in power for whatever their reasons and then believed by the people (propagangda is a real thing in govt-citizen relationships and has been present for a very long time, probably always) and passed down

 

 

Jesus's birth has to be explained in some fashion. There have been many theories thrown around but one i heard recently is very interesting. On some show on the Discovery Channel, they were talking about this phenomenon called parthonogenesis, which is basically asexual reproduction. they were saying it can happen with human females one out of every trillion times or some other insanely high number. perhaps this can explain jesus.

 

but its an amateur theory anyway. i dont fully understand the concept. besides, i believe asexual reproduction usually leads to female births only.

 

Im not sure how Krishna was birthed by Vasuki. can someone please give a summary of this story??

 

Miracles are also something that exist but not really. A miracle is only something of extremely low probability and coincidence that occurs that tends to baffle most people (intellectuals or not). The only divine interefernce in a "miracle" is the fact that God created the world and us and set our whole existance in motion. That is all. Other than that, there are no men who just perform magic. Magic doesnt exist.

 

WHy is KRishna a messiah and not Jesus? it seems your bias in favor of Hinduism is coming out again. Not that i have a problem with hinduism, but one's bias should be towards truth not towards one's own beliefs/teachings/religion.

 

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Yes, it is term for God. No idea whether Krishna is incarnation of Jehova or not though.

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Also you say you have no idea whether Krishna is an avatar of Jehova. But you beleive Krishna to be an avatar of God. And you believe Jehova to be a Jewish term for God.

 

thats like saying:

 

1. i know that a pazham is a banana (Malayalam word - maybe tamil too)

2. i know banana bread is made from banana

3. but i have no idea whether banana bread is made from pazham

 

 

all it takes is logical deduction to see that krishna is an avatar of God and God is Jehova so KRishna is an avatar of Jehova.

[Sephiroth 0]

there is no such thing as a "divine" birth.

 

Yeah, I guess what you say make sense.

 

And yes, I have heard of Parthonogenesis. They said that some low-level lifeforms such as chickens and many fishs in the sea like the sea-horse such do have asexual births where an egg is fertilized without help of male sperm.

 

Im not sure how Krishna was birthed by Vasuki. can someone please give a summary of this story??

 

You know who Kamsa is, right? He is Vasuki's brother and just after the marriage of Vasuki to Vasudeva, a heavenly voice proclaimed that the 8th son of this couple will be the cause of death for Kamsa. Kamsa decided to kill both but his sister pleaded, stating that they will deliver every male child born to them.

 

The 1st seven children are male and was delivered to Kamsa who killed them. However, Kamsa imprisoned both couples and chain them so they won't be together in the prison. It stated that a light came out of Vasudeva's chest and entered Vasuki's stomach and Sri Krishna was born without any sexual conducts.

 

A miracle is only something of extremely low probability and coincidence that occurs that tends to baffle most people (intellectuals or not).

 

Oh ... you very wrong there.

 

Miracles happens everyday but most of people don't know it because they don't see it as miracle but something common. Take the example of the Asian Summit. China and Japan have been rivals since 60 years and both parties never sit in one table (other than in UN) due to the bad blood between them since World War 2.

 

Guess what happened in KL during the Submit? Japanese PM's (Junichiro Koizumi) pen broken when some treaty was about to be sign and Malaysian PM (Datuk Seri Abdullah) asked China's PM (Wen Jai Bao) to lend a pen to the Japanese PM. Everyone applauded and ice between China and Japan broke.

 

This sort of incidents maybe insignificant for most people but in scale of the two countries who had each others' throat - it is a miracle.

 

WHy is KRishna a messiah and not Jesus?

 

Read before calling people bias. Link :

 

http://search.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Why_Jews_Dont_Believe_In_Jesus.asp?s=g&k=jesus

 

Also you say you have no idea whether Krishna is an avatar of Jehova. But you beleive Krishna to be an avatar of God. And you believe Jehova to be a Jewish term for God.

 

Jews don't believe in Avatars but do believe that God do come down to Earth as He did in the past. Jews also believe that Angels (and they are called Spirits of God) too comes down to Earth.

 

So, not sure what Sri Krishna is but His teaching in Gita worth the respect given. And Yes, Jehova is a term for God like what I stated in the link.

 

Problem we facing here is, the defination of Avatar? What exactly does Avatar means?

 

IF God take physical form and come down to Earth, who takes care of the Universe?

If God stays whereever He stays and yet comes down to the Earth, then it means He is in two places at the same time. How is it possible? You need to define what is Avatar is first.

[Guest guest]

jehovah, christ, krnsa, shiva, etc etc...

 

all these diff forms...

 

truly they are all one.

[Sephiroth 0]

While I attend to agree, you need to remember something.

 

WHY could God take different forms when it is easy to just use one form and approach all the people of the World?

 

I believe it is because in those various forms, there is some hidden meanings which Humans supposed to study and know. Some sort of "secret" which He wants us to decipher.

 

[Guest guest]

I thank you much for their would answer-like however troztdem the still following to erwaenen: Jahwe with its endless Massackern comes a Holocaost similarly. (provided that the reports correspond to the truth.) Perhaps there are some misunderstandings, which must be cleared up. Here a pair of examples of the "Jahwe Holocaust": Jahwe is a jealous God (exodus 20:5), which all peoples does not only hate, but even its own Jew (exodus 33:20). It threatens its Jews with extermination, if they turn to other Gods that (Deuteronomium 6:15. It donates its Israeliten on: To genocide (1Samuel 15:3), to brother murder (exodus 32:27 28 to Kanibalismus (Leviticus 26:29), to robbery and theft (exodus 3:22), for slave attitude (Leviticus 25:44 46) for the discrimination of women, for the verachtung of children (Leviticus 27:2 8), to money and Raffgier (exodus 25:3, 33:5) and it requires people victims bDeinen first son is you me to give. 2. Mose22, 29 further messages; HOSEA of 14.1 slots pregnant women Mrs. the bellies up and zerschmettere small children. /1Samaria will become wild; because it is its God disobedience. They are to fall by the sword and zerschmettert their small children and slit their pregnant women/4th MOSE 25.7 two on a caper. Perforate a loving pair with a speer. 8und went Israeli tables to the man still inside into the chamber and punctured it both, the Israeli tables man and the woman, by its belly. There troubles on of the children Israel/1st SAMUEL 15, 33 heard divides your enemy into handy pieces/33Samuel however spoke: As your sword robbed women of its children, then also your nut/mother of the children is to be robbed among the women. And Samuel blow the Agag into pieces before the GENTLEMAN in Gilgal. 2. SAMUEL 12.31 burns prisoners of alive body in ziegeloefen. inside it led and put 31Aber out the people it under iron saws and points/teeth and iron wedges and burned it in ziegeloefen. Thus he did to all cities of the children Ammon. There David and all people turned again towards Jerusalem. 2. KINGS 10, 6ff behead the sons of an extended family and place the heads publicly to the schau. it wrote a second letter to it, which read to 6Da: If it to me hold and my voice obeyed, then take the heads of the sons of your gentleman and bring it to me tomorrow at this time after Jesreel. Were however seventy sons of the king, and the large ones of the city educated them. 7Als now the letter to them came, took it the king of sons and slaughtered the seventy and put their heads into baskets and sent it to Jehu after Jesreel. 8Und as the messenger came and to it said: They brought, spoke the heads of the sons of the king it: It puts in two heaps before the gate until tomorrow. JUDGE 19.29 carves your wife up into twelve parts and sends her away by return of post. 29Als it now came home, took it a measurer, seized its Nebenfrau and carved it up member for member into twelve pieces and sent it into the whole area of Israel. JUDGE 11 slaughters your daughter and burns her. 31so is, which approaches to me from my entry door, if I return from the Ammonitern welfare, to which belong to GENTLEMAN, and I will's as fire victims bring (...) 34Als now Jeftah to Mizpa to its house came, sees, there goes its daughter out him against with bass drums and Reigen; and it was its only child, and it had otherwise no son and no daughter. (...)39(..) and he did it, how he had praised. If Jehova needed money, then or rented he chewed his people, sometimes 8 sometimes also 20 years... And the GENTLEMAN sold it into the hand aJabins, the king of Kanaan, which prevailed to Hazor, and its field captain was Sisera; that lived in Haroschet of the heaths. 3Und the Israeliten schrien to the GENTLEMAN, because Jabin had nine hundred iron cars and suppressed the Israeliten by force twenty years. Judge 4,2. Judge 2.14 was inflamed in such a way the anger of the GENTLEMAN over Israel, and he gave her to the hand of robbers, who robbed her, and sold them into the hands of their enemies all around. And they could ni... the anger of the GENTLEMAN over Israel was inflamed to 3,8 there, and it sold it into the hand Kuschan Rischatajims, the king of Mesopotamien; and in such a way Israel served the Kuschan Rischatajim eight years... there 10,7 were inflamed the anger of the GENTLEMAN over Israel, and he sold her under the hand of the Philister and Ammoniter. 10,8 and they zertraten and smashed Israel too. 1.Samuel.. 12,9 however as it the MR., their God, forgot, sold he her into the hand (A) Siseras, the field captain of Hazor, and into the hand to that. Who is this Jahwe actually? After the words Jesus in Johannes 8,44 were the Israeliten of the "father of the devil." Is indentisch with JAHWE? In accordance with these places one could means: 2 Samuel 24,1: And the anger of the GENTLEMAN was inflamed again against Israel, and it provoked David against the people and spoke: , counts Israel and Juda goes! 1 chronicle 20,1: And the SATAN placed itself against Israel and provoked David that he would let Israel count. 21,2 and David spoke to Joab and to the highest ones of the people: , counts Israel goes. and then concerned it it also still and let 60,000 men of an angel kill...... etc.. And now to the question: Whoever that may have been, a half God, a Avantar, a Krisna, it is very difficult to believe that that was a dear God. Can you say to it somewhat?? Excuse my bad English knowledge. With dear Grueesen.

[Sephiroth 0]

And now to the question: Whoever that may have been, a half God, a Avantar, a Krisna, it is very difficult to believe that that was a dear God. Can you say to it somewhat?? Excuse my bad English knowledge.

 

It is not your lack of English which you should seek forgiveness for, it is your lack of proper conduct. You don't log-in and reply as a guest. You seems to cut and paste from God knows where and you put a question without properly stating what is you seek.

 

Reading your statements (if you can call this load of . statement) only gives me a headache.

[Guest guest]

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It stated that a light came out of Vasudeva's chest and entered Vasuki's stomach and Sri Krishna was born without any sexual conducts.

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i didnt know this. i had never heard of a virgin birth for krishna. i knew buddha was supposed to be a virgin birth, buit not krishna. what book is this stated in?

 

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China/Japan

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although i can understand one's desire to glorify a situation because of the greatness of it, for indeed japan and china coming to be friends is one step towards a peaceful dharma/honor/righteous action Asia. Perhaps one day in the future (but not the way China is acting now).

 

It is a great thing that former enemies of so long can come to reconcile, but the miracle only exists to those that see it as impossible. I do not believe that two people, to companies, two corporations, two cultures or two countries who were former enemies coming to be new friends is IMPOSSIBLE. It is a graet thing, but no miracle i believe.

 

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Krishna = Messiah, Jesus not a messiah

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as it said in that article, a messiah is essentially anyone who was annointed, and i believe when Jesus was baptised he was annointed, so he too is a messiah. The question is, is he THE messiah? In terms of the arguement between Jews and Christians, i would have to side with Jews since Jesus didnot fulfill the propechies that were set by the Jews upon their Messiah. Jesus himself is a divine man who did graet things, inspired many people, but not THE one and only Messiah and path to salvation.

 

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krishna is avatar of god but not jehova

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this still doesnt make sense to me. if jehova is god and krisha is an avatar of god, then krishna is an avatar of Jehova. Whether the jews believe this statement is irrellevent to the arguement at hand, because it is likely they dont believe in nor care about krishna to begin with.

 

 

 

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IF God take physical form and come down to Earth, who takes care of the Universe?

If God stays whereever He stays and yet comes down to the Earth, then it means He is in two places at the same time. How is it possible? You need to define what is Avatar is first.

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to say that god cannot do two things at once is to limit god's ability, thereby making him not the God that one perceives when they think of god. most people define god as omnipotent, which would give him the power to be in two places at once. espeically, if one believes the advaitic belief that all existance is One. so god is alwaysin two places at once. two, three, four, ten, hundred, thousand, billion, infinity. he is everywhere.

 

to me personally, we are all incarnations of God. Our physical prakriti is the Sakti to our mental Siva. Siva-Shakti is paramatman which is brahman. one's ability to be considered saintly or divine is only the aspect of one's charachter. one of flawless characther, surpassing all others (or most others) can considered divine or saintyl. krishna, rama, jesus, buddha, etc. are all people who's charachters, beliefs and personlity surpassed those of the ordiniary man and came as close to alignment with God's own soul and what one can call God's "personality/qualities/charachteristics" which is one of god intentions, righteousness, and so on.

 

this spectrum of quality of personalty/charachter is one that is shaped like a furnace or an inverted hourglass. slim at the top, fat in the middle and medium (between fat and slim) at the bottom.

 

those at the uppermost levels are those that are good poeple, good of heart, good of intentions. they are the ones we call avatars.

 

 

in summary, still there is no difference between jehova and god and if krishna is an avatar of god, then krishna is an avatar of jehova.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

i didnt know this. i had never heard of a virgin birth for krishna.

 

I read it twice - once from Mahabratha Book gave by a friend and another is Book about Life and Death of Sri Krishna (I believe from ISCKON or Hare Krishna Association). This was some ... 12 years ago, I guess.

 

i knew buddha was supposed to be a virgin birth, buit not krishna. what book is this stated in?

 

Lord Buddha's birth is not a virgin birth. He was born the normal way. It stated that when he was born, heavenly voice proclaimed that this was his last birth (on this world. And I guess that he is another good candidate for Messiah also.

 

It is a graet thing, but no miracle i believe.

 

Like I said before, Miracles happens everyday, but most of us don't see it as miracle but coincidence and something normal.

 

as it said in that article, a messiah is essentially anyone who was annointed, and i believe when Jesus was baptised he was annointed, so he too is a messiah.

 

Wrong ... Baptism have nothing to do with Annointment. Annointment is done to Kings which accepted by the People, Baptism is Christian practise, where the child is washed spiritually of its Original Sins. In Jewish Tradition, Circimcision is done to wash the Original Sin away.

 

So, Jesus was Circimcised. Whether he is baptised or not - I don't remember him being baptised and I certain don't remember him been annointed as King of Jerusalem.

 

The question is, is he THE messiah? In terms of the arguement between Jews and Christians, i would have to side with Jews since Jesus didnot fulfill the propechies that were set by the Jews upon their Messiah. Jesus himself is a divine man who did graet things, inspired many people, but not THE one and only Messiah and path to salvation.

 

Sorry ... you need to open up your eyes more widely. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

You have problem seeing Miracles from God but have no problems accepting people like Jesus who Jews themselves had rejected as Prophet as a great man who can perform "great things". What great things are you referring to?

 

Why is it that when someone said Jesus performed this and that, you attend to believe but when I say a pen is broken and cause two great nations to come together, you disagree? How is it that you can believe someone who supposed to have came 2,000 years ago is great and did great things while arguing that a small insignificant event like a pen breaking and bring together two nations as normal and insignificant?

 

As for Jesus and whether he is path to Salvation - there is no such concept in Jewish Tradition. Jews were given Moses's Laws and called the Chosen People because God choose them to have the Law (in a Lawless continent at that time) and to inherit the Promised Land. No Law-binding Jew will say that Moses's Laws is the only path to Salvation.

 

this still doesnt make sense to me.

 

We still have not define what is an Avatar. When you say Sri Krishna is an Avatar, what do you mean? How was Sri Krishna become an Avatar? When and where?

 

to say that god cannot do two things at once is to limit god's ability, thereby making him not the God that one perceives when they think of god.

 

Fine ... acceptable.

 

those at the uppermost levels are those that are good poeple, good of heart, good of intentions. they are the ones we call avatars.

 

I believe they are called Buddhas in Buddhism or the Enlightnent Ones. Are they the same as what you called a Buddha?

 

Frankly speaking, I don't believe that as long as a person remains as Human, he is capable of being good at heart.

[Guest guest]

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Lord Buddha's birth is not a virgin birth

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i thought it was an elephant or something like that that enetered his mother Queen MAya's side and that gave birth to the BUddha

 

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Like I said before, Miracles happens everyday, but most of us don't see it as miracle but coincidence and something normal.

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Sorry, but i see it that normal things happen and people overglorify them to the point of calling them miracles.

 

 

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Why is it that when someone said Jesus performed this and that, you attend to believe but when I say a pen is broken and cause two great nations to come together, you disagree

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why do you hate Jesus so much? dont have a problem with Christ, have a problem with Christians if you dont like them. Like gandhi said "i like christ, but i dont like christians. because you christians are so unlike your christ."

 

I believe in the good things he did, not any miracles like walking on water or bringing someone back to life, or coming back to life himself. there are rational explanations for all this. the problem is finding it amid the many explanations that seem like it MAY be tje right one.

 

Jesus' great deeds are his preachings. His teachings of peace and unity, non judgementalism, steadily worhsiping God, etc. This is what makes the man divine. His stubborness in standing with his beliefs in the face of overwhelming opposition coming from a politcally pressured Roman and religiously charged Jewish communities is what makes him stand out among Western religious divinities. The rest of his fame comes from forced conversions, threats of death, and killings (sad, very sad). but that is all.

 

i believe in his preachings and respect him as i would respect anyone who preaches what he did. Just because one is not a Chicago Bulls fan, how can any rational basketball fan possibly discredit the talent and game of Michael Jordan. Bulls fan or not, Jordan's got skills. same principle - Christian or not, i cant deny Jesus the respect he deserves as a man who was trying to teach ethical principles at a time when things were going wrong in Jerusalem.

 

 

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How is it that you can believe someone who supposed to have came 2,000 years ago is great and did great things while arguing that a small insignificant event like a pen breaking and bring together two nations as normal and insignificant?

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how can you believe in someone 5000 years ago named Krishna did what he did? its not so far fetched. Only elaborated due to time and gloriciation. Both religions are victims of this.

 

The pen breaking didnt do what you say it did. Sure it may have cuased the Chinese to give a pen to the Japanese, or whatever it was. But all this is just formalites. This 'pen event' has not changed the mindset of either groups of people. Only set about formalities before the world stage. A thawing of hostilies, maybe. But not a warming up and new found friendship. The media distorts that which it records.

 

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We still have not define what is an Avatar

 

I believe they are called Buddhas in Buddhism or the Enlightnent Ones. Are they the same as what you called a Buddha

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I did give what i believe an avatar to be. THe scale of human morality and action, mixed with spiritaul advancement and faith, rank a person on a moral or dharmic scale based on quality of charachter or personality. This is how one can raelly call someone a brahmin or a sudra - based on the level of charachter.

 

One at the top most level of the top most level of a brahmin is to me an avatar of God - consiousness wise, meaning mentally. Their soul. Not physically.

 

Buddhists may call his a Buddha. fine. that is ok. each group calls it something different because each group interacts with itself and builds up a in-group culture that creates its own words that are popularized within that group.

 

Language also plays a part. Whats the difference between a gato, poocha, or a cat? only the word because the languages differ. Meaning is the same.

 

 

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Frankly speaking, I don't believe that as long as a person remains as Human, he is capable of being good at heart

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i disagree. There have been many people in the past and even the present that have done and continue to do good. By stating what you ahve, you claim that every person, incluing those that you look up to such as sanyasis, rishis, krishna, rama, etc. are all non-good. Becuase they all came in human form and you say it is impossible. it is not impossible. It takes a strong willed person mentally to control oneself and think good thoughst. It is possible.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

i thought it was an elephant or something like that that enetered his mother Queen MAya's side and that gave birth to the BUddha

 

You don't know anything about Buddhism (or Hindusm for that matter), do you? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

I sometimes wonder what exactly is the qualifications for a Hindu to have before he could discuss about their religion. For example, in Jewish Tradition, one have to be between 30 - 40 years old and accepted in the Society to be a person who follows Moses's Laws properly before he or she could address the society and the World about their (Jewish) beliefs.

 

Anyway, the elephant (white Elephant) is actually came in a dream BOTH Queen Maya and the King had. The elephant came and touched the forehead of Queen Maya and in Hindusm (which what they were at that time), this is a auspicious sign.

 

Sorry, but i see it that normal things happen and people overglorify them to the point of calling them miracles.

 

Hmph ... that is because you have no faith in God. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

why do you hate Jesus so much?

 

Sorry, I don't hate Jesus, because for me, Jesus never existed and it is useless to hate someone who never existed in the first place. As for Gandhi, I don't think he is a very clever man (humble YES but not clever). He like a person who he never meet based on a book which Christians themselves never followed and then say Christians are unlike Jesus.

 

And you still have not answered my question - WHY is it that you accept Jesus and his "great achievements" while questions basic things like miracles and God-handy work (big and small)?

 

His teachings of peace and unity, non judgementalism, steadily worhsiping God, etc.

 

I'm sorry to say this but to me, his teachings is a load of cr@p. Do you know why? Because Christians themselves don't care and follow, why should non-Christians glorify it by stating it is good?

 

What is the use of a religion if the followers don't follow it properly? What is the use of Hindusm if Hindus themselves don't follow it and make it their own? What is the use of Moses's Laws if Jews themselves abandon it?

 

how can you believe in someone 5000 years ago named Krishna did what he did?

 

Same question can be applied to Moses who supposed to come 3,100 B.C and lead the Chosen People from Egypt to the Promised Land.

 

Answer - Because of what they left behind.

 

Sri Krishna left behind Bhavagad Gita and Moses left behind his Laws. Both have guided Hindus and Jews in the Path to God in their own respective ways in peace and harmony for nearly 4,000 years (Hindusm - since Muslim came around 1,000 years ago) and through tough times (for Jews in the past 2,000 years).

 

One proof that the Message is from God is that it WILL endure and the people who follow it WILL lead a proper life. That is an unwritten expectations that Jews believe about Words of God. Both the Gita and Moses's laws fullfill that thus, I know that both Sri Krishna and Moses existed.

 

It takes a strong willed person mentally to control oneself and think good thoughst. It is possible.

 

Your opinion. Mine is that it is not possible. I won't say impossible but simply not possible. The different is - I'm still open for the possibility that is it possible.

[Guest guest]

but ive been busy with finals. anyway............

 

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sometimes wonder what exactly is the qualifications for a Hindu to have before he could discuss about their religion

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i dont believe there should be any age limit. One that has knowledge has knowledge and one that seeks knowledge should be corrected in order to expand upon their knowledge. By not discussing issues, one is left to mull over it and avoid the situation all together, thereby NOT increasing or expanding their knowledge.

 

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that is because you have no faith in God

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that is not true. i definatley believe strongly in god. but i dont believe that some politically motivated formality meant to bring about discussion and hope among the public masses is some sort of miracle. God doesnt work through magic. To dismiss something as merely a miraculous act of God that needs nor has any further explanation is to say that the sun rises and sets because of God and for no other reason (thereby excluding the scientific reasoning)

 

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And you still have not answered my question - WHY is it that you accept Jesus and his "great achievements" while questions basic things like miracles and God-handy work (big and small)?

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To say jesus didnt exist is as substanstial as saying krishna never existed, or rama, or buddha, or asoka, or your great great great grandfather. you werent there to know if any of these poeple were actually who they are said to be. but to "know" that Jesus didnt exist while "knowing" that the others do exist, is personal biases.

 

I do believe that Jesus existed and was a real figure in 1st century israel. He was a man that stood out among his fellow Israelites and gained a backing based on his teachings of morality at a time when Roman capitalism and Jewish temple structure dominated the social world of that time and place. Over time, this following spread their teaching to Rome, wherein it was spread to the rest of Europe. This is where the history of christianity gets tainted because of Roman use of the religion and of Jesus to control the population and start spreading flase beliefs like Jesus is white and the white man is right, etc.

 

I respect his beliefs and the actions he did in order to stand up for those beliefs. I would respect anyone who would act and believe in the same manner, regardlesss of what religion they affiliate themselves with or with what religion affiliates with them.

 

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One proof that the Message is from God is that it WILL endure and the people who follow it WILL lead a proper life.

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Isnt there a saying within Hinduism that there were many great sages that have come and gone and left their mark and still even more greater sages that have just come and gone in quiet peace. Menaing, basically one's goodness is not based on what books one has written or the impact one has had, rather it is based on the goodnees of one's heart and qualities of charachteristics. Jesus left behind probably the biggest impact of all since directly or indiretly (mostly indirectly) his name has hit every last piece of land on this planet.

 

Also endurance isnt a surefire way to know its a sign of God. prostitution is probably the oldest "job", having been held by someone or the other since back in primate times. at least 6 million years. and probably will continue to endure for another 6 million.

 

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Your opinion. Mine is that it is not possible. I won't say impossible but simply not possible. The different is - I'm still open for the possibility that is it possible.

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I dont understand. Im a little lost. You say the difference between impossible and not possible is that by saying not possible, it leaves it open to the possibility of being possible. please elaborate. It seems you are triyng to find differences between two identical things.

 

also, if it is impossible, then what becomes the point of living? why are we here if not to control our minds and desires and attain moksha?

[Sephiroth 0]

i dont believe there should be any age limit. One that has knowledge has knowledge and one that seeks knowledge should be corrected in order to expand upon their knowledge. By not discussing issues, one is left to mull over it and avoid the situation all together, thereby NOT increasing or expanding their knowledge.

 

Maybe it is about time people start put level of discussion based on age and knowledge has. Those who are older and follow Hindusm properly is allowed to discuss detail things while those who are younger and have less knowledge allowed to discuss less things. Also, those who are young but have God's gift of Knowledge should be identified and nurtured.

 

God doesnt work through magic.

Oh ... you are very wrong. There is Magic in this World, but you don't see it. Just remember, only a few can understand the Way of Magic and this few can shape the World by His grace.

 

To dismiss something as merely a miraculous act of God that needs nor has any further explanation is to say that the sun rises and sets because of God and for no other reason (thereby excluding the scientific reasoning)

 

Question here is, WHY must there be a split in Scientific Reasoning and Belief in God?

 

I have read in websites that Ancient Hindus believed that Science and Belief in God went hand-in-hand. Vayu is Diety of the Wind but at same time, they explain how Wind can blow and such without jeapodizing the belief in Vayu. Also about Surya Bhagavan and others.

 

So in this approach, I see a unison between knowledge of Man and Wisdom of God. Man didn't split by stating that Science teachs this, this way so there is no other way around it. However, this method WAS (and still is) followed by Christians, especially from 16th Century, all the way today.

 

Question here is, why are you following Christian way of Science and thinking (devoid of Spirituality) while stating you are a Hindus?

 

To say jesus didnt exist is as substanstial as saying krishna never existed, or rama, or buddha, or asoka, or your great great great grandfather. you werent there to know if any of these poeple were actually who they are said to be. but to "know" that Jesus didnt exist while "knowing" that the others do exist, is personal biases.

 

No, it's not. We say this people existed based on evidence left behind by them. Sri Rama left behind the Bridge (which people like you could disagree), Sri Krishna had left Dwarka city in the sea and also Gita (again you can disagree) and Lord Buddha had left behind his own history, birth place, traces of his existence and the Sutra. Everyone left some marks on this world whether YOU agree to it or not.

 

Even my great great grandfather had left traces of DNA which I can use to trace back to him just as Scientists today trace back Mitochondria Eve to Africa 250,000 years ago and attempting to trace Adam. Yet, Jesus left NOTHING.

 

I do believe that Jesus existed and was a real figure in 1st century israel.

Then you are Christian, not a Hindu.

 

PS : Go and read a book called "Ceaser's Messiah" about your Jesus (the Roman) Christ. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Isnt there a saying within Hinduism that there were many great sages that have come and gone and left their mark and still even more greater sages that have just come and gone in quiet peace.

 

Menaing, basically one's goodness is not based on what books one has written or the impact one has had, rather it is based on the goodnees of one's heart and qualities of charachteristics.

 

Wrong ... I never said that, you did. What I meant is - TRUTH cannot be killed. It WILL endure the time and no matter who comes and goes (great Sages or pathetic beggars), the Truth will always remain.

 

One who doesn't speak the Truth is a Liar and a False prophet. Beware of False Prophets.

 

Jesus left behind probably the biggest impact of all since directly or indiretly (mostly indirectly) his name has hit every last piece of land on this planet.

 

Correct ... because he had brought the sword to Latin America and killed millions there, pushed Europe into Dark Ages for nearly 700 years, made Slavery flourish in America and caused Red Indians to cease to exist, in Asia, Jesus brought swords to Burma, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philiphines and Korea. In Thailand, the Thai Buddhists were smarter race and they use tolerance to fight off the Sword and in Japan, Sword clashed with Sword and Jesus lost.

 

So it is true what you say that he put his name onto every land in the World, but it is not in peace but as Messanger of Destruction. Now, the True Words of God needs to be spread and the people who are suffering must be brought together. Never mind about fighting Christianity ... its usefulness is over and it is dying in the West.

 

Also endurance isnt a surefire way to know its a sign of God. prostitution is probably the oldest "job", having been held by someone or the other since back in primate times. at least 6 million years. and probably will continue to endure for another 6 million.

 

Arrogance and Faithlessness is also enduring ... as you have proven.

 

I dont understand. Im a little lost.

Good, leave it as such. I don't wish to explain how the World works to you.

 

why are we here if not to control our minds and desires and attain moksha?

 

Mind? What mind? You create your own mind and seeking God to help you control it?