Truth about Indian Invasion and plan...

[narayanadasa 0]

Jai Sriman Narayan:

 

I would like to present some information about how British Invasion succeded over previous invasions from the others. I heard this from an Acharya.

 

Others (muslims, portuguese, dutch etc) used brute force on Indians like (1) beat them (2) dont give them food, water (3) destroy their temples (4) Convert by force etc etc etc But, importanly, they did not realize that the Vedic foundation was very vert strong and they will not lose the fighting spirit to win in the end. Thats how in invaders were always being thrown out. After that, the famous vedic culture was always there. Invaders did not attempt to spoil the literature.

 

But the British did something different because they knew that they would face the same fate if they did the same thing. They analyzed all this and formed 2 groups to debate the topic. One group telling exactly what the others did and the other group "Infiltrate into their society". Finally the 2nd group won the vote and was on a mission to go about "destroying literature". Below are the highlights of what they did..

 

1. Tackle the Brahmins, so that they stop teaching anyone. The action was to close Gurukulas but get people to study in British run schools. This worked because the Brahmins were mainly in the mode of goodness and did not resort to violence. Thats why, it was the Brahmihs who originally went to school and others were suppressed. Although the Britishers were suppressing by wrong-propoganda, the people thought it was the Brahmins...so Brahmins were hated.

 

2. Tackle the Kshatriyas, so that they stop fighting for the country

The action was to provide them with weapons,gifts and inducting them into the British army and give them some concessions. This worked because the Kshatriyas operated

in the mode of passion and it wasnt difficult too conivnce them.

 

3. Tackle the Vaishyas, so that they continue to do business but with profits to the British.

The action was to encourage them to do business / trade with the British so that they can be manipulated. Remember, foreigh currency meant more money. This worked because the Vaishys mostly operated in the mode of passion / ignorance.

 

4. Tackle the Sudras, so that they can be easily conveted with the 1st 3 classes already out of the way, so no one to teach.

The action was to simply castigate them. They were given the wrong book of Vedas as manipulated by Max Mueller, so they really started disbeleiving our own scriptures. Also, they were beaten and food shortage was created. Inspite of this life continued normally, because of "Daana" or charity. So, another action was taken by the British was to stop this Daana.

 

All this then created a good platform for the British to start conversion / brain washing activities. They succeeded no, doubt.

 

Now, how do we get back to what we originally were

 

1. Brahmins must first become true Brahmins: The so-called Brahmin-born Brahmins must prove that they are indeed Brahmins by leading a true Brahminical life. Only then they will get respect in society. This could mean that they may need to sacrifise their professional careers' for the sake of other groups like the Vaishyas and Sudras. Once they get respect, then they can teach, repoen Gurukulas. Ofcourse, the Brahmins must be looked after with food and support by the earning class. This expenditure must be minimal for the simple life of Brahmins. All this is possible only if Brahmins become simple. Right now it appears that *presumably intelligent* Brahmins are trying to compete professionally with the Vaishyas/Sudras. This must stop.

 

The above step will be the foundation for further growth by providing education to the Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and The Sudras.

 

It will be difficult to handle the Sudras because they will no more be willing to do the jobs that they once did without dislike. According to Vivekananda, thats not a problem if such jobs were done using machines and Sudras were given a place among the other 3 classes as applicable.

 

Seems to be the only way. Please let me know all your thoughts on this.

 

Jai Sriman Narayana

[Sephiroth 0]

Others (muslims, portuguese, dutch etc) used brute force on Indians like (1) beat them (2) dont give them food, water (3) destroy their temples (4) Convert by force etc etc etc But, importanly, they did not realize that the Vedic foundation was very vert strong and they will not lose the fighting spirit to win in the end. Thats how in invaders were always being thrown out.

 

However, I disagree with this. If you live with Muslims, you will know that they too work in the same principles like British.

 

They pretend to be your friend, Infiltrate into your society, question you (passively) about your own beliefs as if to make you confuse and then, introduce their own beliefs into you thus corrupting you further. I believe British learn this from Muslims and their encounters in other nations (like Arab) and used it here for their political gains.

 

BTW ... Viruses spread in the same manner as above, if you study Microbiology.

 

According to Vivekananda, thats not a problem if such jobs were done using machines and Sudras were given a place among the other 3 classes as applicable.

 

I don't agree with your plan, simply because does not follow Vedic principles either.

 

You say Brahmins must first become true Brahmins (and prove them such by living accordingly). Ask any Brahmins and they will say they are living accordingly. They have their rituals, they have the poojas and such. So how to proof they are real Brahmins?

 

All this is possible only if Brahmins become simple. Right now it appears that *presumably intelligent* Brahmins are trying to compete professionally with the Vaishyas/Sudras.

 

Many of Brahmins have become Lawyers, Doctors and such. To them, to leave such profession is to leave money and status behind and willing to accept "dhanas" from the society. Do you think they could do so? I don't think so.

 

Also, you expect them to teach Vedas to other classes. Right now, Veda knowledge had been taught within Brahmins while others do not taught about it. Do you think they are willing to share? I don't think so either.

 

It will be difficult to handle the Sudras because they will no more be willing to do the jobs that they once did without dislike.

 

It's not matter of willing or diswilling. It is matter of allowing others to step over you.

 

If a Sudra as intelligence as a brahmin, do you think is it fair for him to give up his pursuit of knowledge and follow others? I don't think so.

[narayanadasa 0]

[[[

 

Others (muslims, portuguese, dutch etc) used brute force on Indians like (1) beat them (2) dont give them food, water (3) destroy their temples (4) Convert by force etc etc etc But, importanly, they did not realize that the Vedic foundation was very vert strong and they will not lose the fighting spirit to win in the end. Thats how in invaders were always being thrown out.

 

However, I disagree with this. If you live with Muslims, you will know that they too work in the same principles like British.

 

They pretend to be your friend, Infiltrate into your society, question you (passively) about your own beliefs as if to make you confuse and then, introduce their own beliefs into you thus corrupting you further. I believe British learn this from Muslims and their encounters in other nations (like Arab) and used it here for their political gains.

 

BTW ... Viruses spread in the same manner as above, if you study Microbiology.

 

]]]

 

Hmm, it could well be the way you say it. But for what the Britishers really did, remnants of how they planned it is now available in the British Museums for ex: Max Muellers letter to his wife.. his granddaughter is now publishing it.

 

[[[

According to Vivekananda, thats not a problem if such jobs were done using machines and Sudras were given a place among the other 3 classes as applicable.

 

I don't agree with your plan, simply because does not follow Vedic principles either.

 

You say Brahmins must first become true Brahmins (and prove them such by living accordingly). Ask any Brahmins and they will say they are living accordingly. They have their rituals, they have the poojas and such. So how to proof they are real Brahmins?

 

]]]

 

Brahmins may say they live, but they usually say that with guilt when asked by another Brahmin who is better.

So, what the Brahmins do is not enough, the rituals etc are one part of the story and they are already getting due respect for that, no doubt. There is more to it. They have to move out of professional competition from the so-called Sudras. Only then, they will be respected. Otherwise, it becomes like “well, “I do everything that they do, so why am I less, so why should I respect them” … and there is nothing wrong about that.

 

 

All this is possible only if Brahmins become simple. Right now it appears that *presumably intelligent* Brahmins are trying to compete professionally with the Vaishyas/Sudras.

 

[[[[

 

Many of Brahmins have become Lawyers, Doctors and such. To them, to leave such profession is to leave money and status behind and willing to accept "dhanas" from the society. Do you think they could do so? I don't think so.

 

]]]]

 

Ok, they won’t be willing to do it, I agree. And till they do that, no body will listen to them, there will never be a Ram Rajya kind of society. That’s why the Brahmins need to get together and seriously discuss this possibility,.

 

[[[[

 

Also, you expect them to teach Vedas to other classes. Right now, Veda knowledge had been taught within Brahmins while others do not taught about it. Do you think they are willing to share? I don't think so either.

 

]]]

 

I did’nt mean the Vedas because Vedas are anyway not meant to be shared with all. But the Gita etc that contain the essence of the Vedas can be taught. People will only listen to a person if he is respected in society. So the earlier prerequisite is a must.

 

[[[[

 

It will be difficult to handle the Sudras because they will no more be willing to do the jobs that they once did without dislike.

 

It's not matter of willing or diswilling. It is matter of allowing others to step over you.

 

If a Sudra as intelligence as a brahmin, do you think is it fair for him to give up his pursuit of knowledge and follow others? I don't think so.

 

]]]]

 

Yep, I don’t think it is fair to ask a Sudra to become a Sudra. I was only telling he need’nt go back if the jobs are replaced by Machines (remember, this is not my idea, I just carried forward from one of Vivekananda’s speeches). I also said that Sudra must join one of the above classes with the classes themselves not based on birth but on quality.

 

That’s why the so-called superior Brahmins must demonstrate that they are indeed Brahmins, only then they are fit to lead. Otherwise, what is the difference between the western countries and us, if all are same? If they cant do that, then we will live a sandwich life of western-Indian-Arabian way,

 

Open to good comments like yours..

 

Jai Sriman Narayan

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Hmm, it could well be the way you say it. But for what the Britishers really did, remnants of how they planned it is now available in the British Museums for ex: Max Muellers letter to his wife.. his granddaughter is now publishing it.

 

Like I said ... Muslims were out to change your religion. They didn't care about other things. However, British were not only want to change your religion, they were out to change EVERYTHING you were.

 

You see, the difference between British and Muslims were, Muslim looked at Hindus as idol worshipper while they are God's people. They look at Hindus on equal scale (Man to Man) basic. So, they tried to relate to you by intelligence (persuade conversion) or by force (fear conversion). If all else failed - DEATH to ALL.

 

British however was NOT looking at Hindus the same way. The time British came, Evolution theory came out in Europe. So, British looked at themselves as higher in evolutional ladder while Africans and Indians to be Savages - "Animals" which need to be reeducated and recivilised.

 

That is what British were doing. They weren't looking at you in equal levels (Man to Man), they were looking at you from Human to Animal point of view. You are barbaric in your culture and you were in need of recivilizing. This was a classic case of Ignorance and Ignorant People.

 

Brahmins may say they live, but they usually say that with guilt when asked by another Brahmin who is better.

So, what the Brahmins do is not enough, the rituals etc are one part of the story and they are already getting due respect for that, no doubt. There is more to it. They have to move out of professional competition from the so-called Sudras. Only then, they will be respected. Otherwise, it becomes like “well, “I do everything that they do, so why am I less, so why should I respect them” … and there is nothing wrong about that.

 

Yeah, I see your point. But if you want them to move aside, then two things MUST happen first :

 

1. They MUST have their own land and resources first.

2. They MUST have their authority back.

 

Because you ask them to give up what they have, are you willing to give what they had before Invaders came?

 

If you do not, then you are liking degrading them further more by making them beg the society for alms to survive and frankly speaking, it will become worse than what it happening now.

 

Ok, they won’t be willing to do it, I agree. And till they do that, no body will listen to them, there will never be a Ram Rajya kind of society. That’s why the Brahmins need to get together and seriously discuss this possibility,.

 

No, EVERYONE should sit down and talk about it seriously, not Brahmins alone. I see a few problems :

 

1. Restructuring the society CAN be done under a Good leader. Who among Indian Politicians who are considered Good enough (Honest, Responsible, Accepted by all - FRIEND AND FOE, and well-versed in Veda and religions). Last I check, only one fit that description was Mahatma Gandhi.

 

2. In order for Brahmin to lets go what they have, they must gain the lands which were given to them by Kings of the fore. They MUST have authority to set their own school and educations - hopefully Vedic schools where others could come and learn also.

 

3. Brahmins MUST become a self-sufficient society within society. They CANNOT depend on the government for support. If they do, then Politicians can control them.

 

I did’nt mean the Vedas because Vedas are anyway not meant to be shared with all. But the Gita etc that contain the essence of the Vedas can be taught. People will only listen to a person if he is respected in society. So the earlier prerequisite is a must.

 

If Gita is enough for all, then question will remain - WHY do you need Brahmins then? What is the use of restructuring the society if the Brahmins not going to do anything to the society like teach the Vedas?

 

[narayanadasa 0]

I fully accept your views about Brahmins being a small-society within society and not being too dependent on Govt. / politicians.

 

Gandhi in my opinion is indeed a good leader but I dont know about his authority on vedas etc. Scondly, I dont know whether whatever he knows of Bhagavad Gita is from a bonafide aacharya, so his interpretations of Gita seem very strange from a religious point of view, although from the a pure literature point of view, it is excellent. Also, it may be due to his professional education Gandhi had more inclination to a lot western way of thinking but he resisted that to his life-style.. in terms of his dress, (dont know about food habits) etc. But, religiously, seems like he was confused. I have this information fron sources like Rajagopalachari who worked with Gandhi for a long time.

 

So, I am a bit sceptical about Gandhi being a leader for this, although I accept that he was a good leader as far as independence / freedom movement was concerned.

 

Secondly, I think the leader must be a Kshatriya who would support the Gurukula system... dont know who that could be.

 

Regarding teaching, the Brahmins are indeed needed to provide proper intrepretations of the Gita. Because otherwise due to changing times, people could misinterpret and things could go wrong again. Remember, Max Mueller wrong translated our scriptures and gave it to the sudras who have now lost all faith on Brahmins.

 

Jai Sriman Narayan

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

I fully accept your views about Brahmins being a small-society within society and not being too dependent on Govt. / politicians.

 

No ... I said Brahmins must become society within society which totally DISATTACHED from Politics and the Government. Food and other resources must be produced by society and Brahmins themselves should be encourage to have their own schools, hospitals (Ayurvade and such), Veda Learning Centres (from which the Government should learn from whenever they pass a Bill) and such.

 

By giving Brahmins independance to strive, they will become India's soul once again ... sort of Consciousness within the body, the Brain which thinks.

 

Once that is done, we can sit and think about the rest of the "body" of India. You get my drift?

 

Gandhi in my opinion is indeed a good leader but I dont know about his authority on vedas etc.

 

I said LIKE Mahatma Gandhi. I didn't say resurrect him.

 

Right now, India needs a leader who is accepted by ALL - high caste and lower one if Reconstruction of the Society is to be implemented.

 

Secondly, I think the leader must be a Kshatriya who would support the Gurukula system... dont know who that could be.

 

Yes ... Agreed. Mahatma Gandhi is too soft in his approach and toward non-violence too much. While it did brought independance, it didn't keep the enemies within (Muslims) in check and India lost Pakistan and Bangladesh. Same mistake CANNOT be allowed to happen again ... India could lost Kashmir.

 

So ... so far, we need a candidate who is Kyastria (in nature), and Brahmin by education (of Vedas and Gita). Know anyone like that? I can only think of Kalki ... but who knows when He going to show up.

 

Regarding teaching, the Brahmins are indeed needed to provide proper intrepretations of the Gita. Because otherwise due to changing times, people could misinterpret and things could go wrong again. Remember, Max Mueller wrong translated our scriptures and gave it to the sudras who have now lost all faith on Brahmins.

 

No, I think public teaching is the best. Call everyone (Sudra included) and teach about Gita. I think that is the reason why the Gita exists - for ALL. Thus, they MUST be given TO ALL.

 

The Vedas can be kept aside for those who have genuine interest in them due to their complexs structuring and time it needs to understand them all (which Sudras do not have since they work for a living).

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Sorry for interperting your views.

 

Your goals and vision looks ideal, but the moment any brahmin proposes this to his wife, she will file for divorce.

 

So forget about society even family can't be lived in Varnashrama. So what is lost is lost, only He can revive it (probably at the end of this Yuga)

[narayanadasa 0]

Yep, agreed.

Let us now see if anyone else has other thoughts.

[Sephiroth 0]

Your goals and vision looks ideal, but the moment any brahmin proposes this to his wife, she will file for divorce.

 

So forget about society even family can't be lived in Varnashrama. So what is lost is lost, only He can revive it (probably at the end of this Yuga)

 

 

What I propose is not for Brahmins (alone) to accept or decline, it is for the society (of India) to accept or decline.

 

We have today to produce food using water and little soil (Hydroponic Technology), we have technology to generate energy from Solar and Wind energy, we have Ayurveda knowledge, we have so much we can use ... WHY can't this use to help the society restructure itself? I think it can and it can be done.

 

And no (Hindu) Brahmin woman will divorce her husband for wanting to leave in peace and for society. I'm not married or know any Brahmins, but I'm sure they will be happy to have their own land, school, administration of their own lives in their hands just as they did before the Invaders. And all they need to "pay" is that they share the knowledge with others.

 

If you want to wait for Kalki and fix YOUR mistake ... fine. I could like to hear from others who like to do something good.

[narayanadasa 0]

In the age of kali it is being said that things will tend to become bad easily.

 

While I agree with this, I dont think it would be a steep downfall but a gradual like the steps... so may be it will be like Good (vedic times)==> Bad (Invasions)==> Good (if we recover well)==> Bad etc.

 

For example. Germany went up and came down, UK went up and came down, may be next in line in USA. Similarly India was up at one time, it came down, it may again come up.

 

So, people have to work towards upcoming the vedic way, rather than the western way (material).

 

Jai Sriman Narayan

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Thanks for your mail.

 

Actually i am a (westernized) brahmin, who was "tricked" into believing that living in western style is the correct and living in vedic (at least semi vedic), like few of our relatives as priests in temples etc., is a poor and useless way of living.

 

i was enjoying the material benefits, the job, career, status , family etc., until very recently. But when i started reading Gita and other philosphocial books i am slowly realizing how a hollow and wasteful life i am leading, which has only competition, jealousy, hatred and greed and gives very minute transient pleasure and degrades the spiritual evolution.

 

actually i am happy reading your views but at the same time i am afraid it may not happen practically (i am not against your view) , just think a wife whose husband is earning handsomely and who is touring the city in car if asked to accompany him with a begging bowl suddenly, will anybody agree (or at least even ready to listen that)

 

i was dejected by this for some time, later realised all is part of game, at least can try for my individual spiritual upgradation

 

anyhow thanks for your views and wish you all the best.

[Sephiroth 0]

Actually i am a (westernized) brahmin, who was "tricked" into believing that living in western style is the correct and living in vedic (at least semi vedic), like few of our relatives as priests in temples etc., is a poor and useless way of living.

 

i was enjoying the material benefits, the job, career, status , family etc., until very recently. But when i started reading Gita and other philosphocial books i am slowly realizing how a hollow and wasteful life i am leading, which has only competition, jealousy, hatred and greed and gives very minute transient pleasure and degrades the spiritual evolution.

 

actually i am happy reading your views but at the same time i am afraid it may not happen practically (i am not against your view) , just think a wife whose husband is earning handsomely and who is touring the city in car if asked to accompany him with a begging bowl suddenly, will anybody agree (or at least even ready to listen that)

 

 

You are Brahmin by Birth only, you are NOT Brahmin by Nature. Gita says Brahmins are by Nature, NOT Birth.

 

Your Mind is a Materialistic mind, your way of living is a materistic way of living, your path (Karma) is leading to lower birth and you still have not willing to accept your fate and change.

 

Since you are not a Brahmin (by Nature), I don't see what rights you have in declining (or agreeing) to this proposal. It is not for you for you are not a Brahmin (by Nature).

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

i am not rejecting what you are saying, you are almost right in saying, that me not a true brahmin has no right to reject or agree to this proposal.

 

just curious to know on what rights you are advocating this proposal, do you seriously think you are a true brahmin (no offence intended here)

[Sephiroth 0]

i am not rejecting what you are saying, you are almost right in saying, that me not a true brahmin has no right to reject or agree to this proposal.

 

Good. As long as we eliminate the so-called "Brahmins by Birth" out of the way, those who are Brahmins (by nature) can come forward and help the society.

 

just curious to know on what rights you are advocating this proposal, do you seriously think you are a true brahmin (no offence intended here)

 

As my name could apply - I'm not a Brahmin. Matter a fact, I have not acknowledge anywhere that I was a Hindu either.

So, you got a problem with that?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

So as per you only true brahmins (by nature) can accept or reject the proposal

 

However any body can make or advocate the proposal

 

Dont you think it is funny?

[Sephiroth 0]

I consider someone claiming himself to be Brahmin when he is living a life like a Sudra (in materialistic mode) to be funny.

 

So as per you only true brahmins (by nature) can accept or reject the proposal

However any body can make or advocate the proposal

 

Why NOT?

 

You can make proposal, I can make proposal, ANYONE can make proposal for sake of the Society. If it is good proposal, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

Are you saying only Brahmins (whether by nature or birth) has a right to propose anything? I don't think so.

 

Hindusm itself do not work in such way. Lord Vishnu Himself was a Warrior (Maintainer) - when He came as Pasurama, Rama and Sri krishna. Do you not read Gita which is a sermon from a person who born as a Kyastria (Warrior)?

[krishnadasa 0]

Before discussing this issue one should turnaround some of the history books I imagine. When we look in there its clearly evident that the so called british rule in India started in the folowing way.

 

Although in the later point of time Brits look a kinda rogue people and so was the thought even for the country in genaral, in the beginning it was not so. Although the peeple who came were in need of money for the research and many more things back home, they had actually no idea of staying back and rule over. All the things started when a crooked and evil minded Guy called Mr. Roberet Clive with whom the british goivernment in Briton was very much worried about cos of his crooked and cunning nature . This very person because of the foresaid reason was sent to India. This was the most unfortunate thing ever happened to India as he later became the responsible person for the strong base of the east india company. I imagine this is the person who actually made use of the fact that Indians in other words the Indian so called Kings were fighting with each other and had lost Unity and Integrity.

 

The reason for this partly being the religion as one can find the usual fights were normally between the later came muslim kings and the indigenous Hindu kings. Although there was a kind of Unity between the hindu kings but still lacked the strong Integrity and military power which cud surpass both Muslim and british rulers. So in any case if one sees although brits were partly respnsible for all the chaops existing now , the main responsible were the very old muslim kings who gave a start to the destruction by killing innocent priests and destroying out beutiful temples.

 

Hari hari bol

[krishnadasa 0]

The first class soceity , i.e to say Brahmins should think properly before marrying. In other words they sud try living for otheres than for themselves. As the saying goes in hindi. " Na rahega Baas , aur Naa bajegi baasuri" similary when there is no wife then there are no such probles like divorce

 

hari hari bol

 

[Sephiroth 0]

As the saying goes in hindi. " Na rahega Baas , aur Naa bajegi baasuri" similary when there is no wife then there are no such probles like divorce

 

"No Women, No Cry" - Song by Bob Malley.

[narayanadasa 0]

whatever be the cause of the invasion we have (especially our kings, brahmins, everyone in general) have sinned, thats why God has punished us. today, we have to understand that and rectify ourselves.

 

After the Mahabharata there was no big event and this could mean that people in general have been living life more enjoying material senses than and spiritual beliefs. This is ofcourse sinful. Bharatavarsha was not just India but the whole world together apparently people became materialistic and it began to split due to infighting.

 

We have indeed been punished. Now that we realize this, is there nothing we can do? I dont think chasing away muslims, christians from India is a real solution. They were mostly converted by force or cheap tactics which westerners still do. We need the people in general realize what the real spiritual choices are and leave the option to them.

 

May be the best way to do this is to introduce one subject in schools about soul, matter and God. The students will then start discussing themselves and finally land up with our great Aacharya's for auhtoritative answers. I think thats the only way.

 

Jai Sriman Narayan