Bhakti is NOT A PATH!

[Rajashekhar 0]

Bhakti is expounded by ISKCONites as a great path to God.

 

But is Bhakti THE PATH to GOD?

 

Not if you think logically and understand Bhagavad-Gita itself.

 

First of all: Krishna says in no uncertain terms that there are only TWO PATHS for salvation. Karma and Gnyana. In Gita 3.3, Krishna says, "As Expounded by me of Old, O Blameless One, there are in this world two paths: the Yoga of Knowledge for men of contemplation and the Yoga of action for men of action." And he continues to expand on this theme considerably.

 

He did not say 'Bhakti' is a path. He did not say there are other paths. He said there are two paths, and two paths alone...Karma and Gnyana.

 

Logically thinking, one can ask: Does not one who engages himself in action (like daily prayers, for example) do so with Bhakti? Everyone who engages in Prayers, Helping the poor or Studying and Pursuing Gnyana Maarga, does so with devotion to Lord Shiva in whatever form he prefers. So how can Bhakti be a path by itself?

 

Proponents of the Bhakti movement seem to think that all one has to do is engage in daily bhajans and he/she will be free from the Samsara. There are two problems with this line of thought.

 

First, one can never stop engaging oneself in Karma (Gita 2.5). Thus one is always along the path of Karma. When one tires of singing Bhajans, one goes to sleep and then one eats food prepared by one's students. Eating food prepared by someone, sleeping in a bed while others help oneself out are all actions too!

 

Secondly, Bhakti truly results in an extraordinary bliss. The pleasure I derive from eating food when I am hungry, will turn into true ecstasy if I can, at the same time, listen to Shiva Sahasranaamam sung by Vidushi Sathyavathi. It becomes so great that I sometimes stop listening to Shiva Sahasranamam because I don't want to be distracted too much from work.

 

This means that the so called proponents of Bhakti movement like all the great Vaishnavs or Shaivites did so for the pure pleasure of it. Not because they wanted Moksha from this Samsara. Pursuit of happiness can never qualify one for Moksha, right?

 

Q.E.D.

 

One last remark. I am really glad that the Bhakti movement revived Hinduism when it was in a decline, but it is about time that we understood where the Hindu scriptures stand (although we may not all agree with them).

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(But is Bhakti THE PATH to GOD?

 

Not if you think logically and understand Bhagavad-Gita itself.)

 

If you accept the authority of Gita then I am afraid your speculation on bhakti will fall apart. Have a read some of these verses.

But great souls, O Arjuna, who possess divine qualities (See 16.01-03) know Me as the (material and efficient) cause of creation and imperishable, and worship Me single-mindedly. (9.13)

 

O Arjuna, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the sacred fire, whatever charity you give, whatever austerity you perform, do all that as an offering unto Me. (9.27)

By this attitude of complete renunciation (or Samnyasa-yoga) you shall be freed from the bondage, good and bad, of Karma. You shall be liberated, and come to Me. (9.28)

The Self is present equally in all beings. There is no one hateful or dear to Me. But, those who worship Me with devotion, they are with Me and I am also with them. (9.29)

I am the origin of all. Everything emanates from Me. Understanding this, the wise ones worship Me with love and devotion. (10.08)

With their minds absorbed in Me, with their lives surrendered unto Me, always enlightening each other by talking about Me; they remain ever content and delighted. (10.09)

I give the knowledge, to those who are ever united with Me and lovingly adore Me, by which they come to Me. (10.10)

Out of compassion for them I, who dwell within their heart, destroy the darkness born of ignorance by the shining lamp of knowledge. (10.11)

 

Neither by study of the Vedas, nor by austerity, nor by charity, nor by ritual, can I be seen in this form as you have seen Me. (11.53)

However, through single-minded devotion alone, I can be seen in this form, can be known in essence, and also can be reached, O Arjuna. (11.54)

The one who does all works for Me, and to whom I am the supreme goal, who is my devotee, who has no attachment, and is free from enmity towards any being attains Me, O Arjuna. (See also 8.22) (11.55)

 

Chapter 12: Path of Devotion

Arjuna said: Those ever-steadfast devotees (or Bhaktas) who thus worship You (as the manifest or personal God), and those who worship the eternal unmanifest (the formless or impersonal) Brahman (by developing Jnana), which of these has the best knowledge of yoga? (12.01)

The Supreme Lord said: Those ever steadfast devotees who worship with supreme faith by fixing their mind on Me as personal God, I consider them to be the best yogis. (See also 6.47) (12.02)

 

Re

(Secondly, Bhakti truly results in an extraordinary bliss. The pleasure I derive from eating food when I am hungry, will turn into true ecstasy if I can, at the same time, listen to Shiva Sahasranaamam sung by Vidushi Sathyavathi. It becomes so great that I sometimes stop listening to Shiva Sahasranamam because I don't want to be distracted too much from work.)

 

So why are you complaining, such is the power of Shiva and his names.

 

Re

This means that the so called proponents of Bhakti movement like all the great Vaishnavs or Shaivites did so for the pure pleasure of it. Not because they wanted Moksha from this Samsara. Pursuit of happiness can never qualify one for Moksha, right?)

 

well all my effort is in seeking happiness if moksa can not give me that what is the use?

 

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

the karma yoga of the gita is not karma yoga.. it is karma-bhakti yoga

 

(and the bhakti cannot be achieved without acting.. so it is bhakti-karma yoga)

 

the same with gnana

 

read carefully the gita and you'll understand

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

Chapter 9. The Most Confidential Knowledge

 

TEXT 26

 

patram puspam phalam toyam

yo me bhaktya prayacchati

tad aham bhakty-upahrtam

asnami prayatatmanah

 

If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

 

(karma, the action of offering.. but also bhakti... with love for krsna.. karma-bhakti... simply bhakti)

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Are you sure you know what Krishna said?

 

Are you positive.

 

In summary of your post, you don't seem to understand.

 

Bhakti is a not even a path, its a way of life. It's the souls natural thing that it wants. It's eternal.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

what do u mean by Moksha first of all? If it means becoming Brahman and losing our identity and forgetting our Krishna,we dont need such a Moksha or liberation or call by any name.

 

Yes -- Bhakthi we do solely for the ecstasy and not for anything else.

 

Thats why very exalted Vaishnvas pray like "i may be put into harassment by demons.but simply I want to remember your lotus feet".

 

Everyone cannot appreciate Bhakthi or Vaishnavism.Ofcourse for the blind,the sun never shines.

 

I wonder why you people have a pre-conceived notion about Vaishnavism?

 

And you are quoting from Gita to prove that Bhakthi is not a path.Very peculiar and I pity you.

 

You know what Krishna meant when he says "ananya chidanythomam yejapar upasata" he wants everybody to remember him constantly.

 

For you people,building hospitals,cutting ribbons,tsunami help show are all Karma yoga.And you also included Bhajan as a Karma.Karma brings fruit but not Bhajan.

 

By calling Rama you wont get punya instead you get Bhakthi.Thats it.

 

And perhaps you fool not only current day ordinary devotees but also great men like Meera Bai,Tukaram,Purandara Dasa and all.

 

One day will come,when all we ISKCONites will be mass killed as happened in Madurai by Shaiva King to Jain people.But know it,we stand bravely for pursuing death.

 

We are all Jatayus of Ramayana to die for Rama and Krishna rather than remaining here with all your blasphemies.

[Guest guest]

Dear Raju,

 

Union with God is the goal of this human life. It is the be-all and end-all of our existence. It is the summum bonum of life. This can be achieved by following the path of Bhakti Yoga, Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga or Karma Yoga.

 

Bhakti Yoga is the path of devotion or the path of affection that is suitable for people of devotional temperament, in whom the love-element preponderates. Women are fit for this Bhakti Yoga Marga as affection predominates in them. Raja Yoga is suited to men of mystic temperament. Some are fond of acquiring Siddhis (powers). They can take up this path. Jnana is the path of Vedanta. Men of rational temperament with reasoning power, strong individual thinking and bold reasoning can take up this path. Those who have an active temperament can follow the path of Karma Yoga.

 

Bhakti Yoga is suitable for the vast majority of devotees. Generally there is a mixture of devotional and intellectual temperaments in all men. Some are purely devotional. Some are purely intellectual. One can realise through selfless Karma Yoga also. Karma Yoga purifies the mind (Chitta Suddhi) and prepares the aspirant for Jnana Yoga. People of active temperament should take up Karma Yoga. Bhakti is also classified as mental Karma. It comes under Karma Yoga. Raja Yoga is also a form of Bhakti Yoga. In Bhakti Yoga the devotee does absolute self-surrender to the Lord. A Raja Yogi has subtle egoism. The Bhakta depends upon the Lord. He is extremely humble. A Raja Yogi exerts and asserts. He is of Svatantra type (independent). Bhakti Yoga and Jnana Yoga are not incompatibles like acid and alkali. One can combine one-pointed devotion with Jnana Yoga. The fruit of Bhakti Yoga is Jnana. Highest love (Para Bhakti) and Jnana are one. Perfect knowledge is love. Perfect love is knowledge.

 

Sri Sankara, a Kevala Advaita Jnani, was a great Bhakta of Lord Hari, Hara and Devi. Jnana Dev of Alandi, Poona, a great Yogi, was a Bhakta of Lord Krishna. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa worshipped Kali and got Jnana through Swami Totapuri, his Advaita Guru. Lord Gouranga of Bengal was a great Advaita Vedantic scholar and yet he danced in the streets and market-places singing the Names of Hari. Appaya Dikshita, a famous Jnani of Adaiyapalam, North Arcot District, the author of Siddhanta Lesha and various other Vedantic books, was a devotee of Lord Siva.

 

It behoves therefore that Bhakti can be combined with much advantage with Jnana. Raja Yoga aims in controlling all thought-waves or mental modifications. The second Sutra in Yoga Darshan of Patanjali Maharishi in the first chapter reads:

 

Yogas Chitta Vritti Nirodhah.

 

“Yoga is the restraint of mental modifications.”

 

This is the definition of Raja Yoga according to Patanjali Maharishi. Sri Jnana Dev, Goraknath, Raja Bhartrihari and Sadasiva Brahman were all Raja Yogis of great repute and glory.

 

Bhakti is a means to the end. It gives purity of mind. It removes Vikshepa (tossing of the mind) Sakamya Bhakti (devotion with expectation) brings Svarga and Brahmaloka for the devotee (Uttamaloka Prapti). Nishkamya Bhakti (love without expectation of fruits) brings Chitta Suddhi and through the purity of the mind the aspirant gets Jnana.

 

Published By

THE DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY

P.O. Shivanandanagar—249 192

Distt. Tehri-Garhwal, Uttaranchal,

Himalayas, India.

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhu,

 

You mak me sad, Prabhu. I cry. Why you attak us? Srila Pabhupada make us good peopl we love Krishn all we do Bhajan. Why? Say you I do rong? I don care. I love sweet Krishn if you kill me even.

 

Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare

Hare Krishn Hare Krishn Krishn Krishn Hare Hare

[Guest guest]

Rajsekr Prabhu no know Krishn. He not read Gita. No understand. Good Govind Prabhu. Good talk.

 

 

Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare

Hare Krishn Hare Krishn Krishn Krishn Hare Hare

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Dandavats.

[bhadramoorthi 0]

You told me in your post(in the topic named DIVINE MOTHER) :

 

Most scholars, Hindu or Non-Hindu, agree that Puranas are not scriptures. They are only vehicles used to convey the deep philosophical thoughts contained in the Upanishads. This is why there are innumerable contradictions between various Puranas. Only Shrutis (The four Vedas containing Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads) are considered true Scriptures by learned Hindus."

 

Then why the hell are you quoting from gita?

It is from mahabharatam which is only a STORY according to you!And who is krishna other than a myth?

Is He mentioned about in the SCRIPTURES as said by you?

 

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Gita is an Upanishad.

 

 

I don't even know what Purana is. Well least I know something lol. Hare Krisnna

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

 

Chapter 3. Karma-yoga

TEXT 3

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

loke 'smin dvi-vidha nistha

pura prokta mayanagha

jnana-yogena sankhyanam

karma-yogena yoginam

 

SYNONYMS

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; loke--in the world; asmin--this; dvi-vidha--two kinds of; nistha--faith; pura--formerly; prokta--were said; maya--by Me; anagha--O sinless one; jnana-yogena--by the linking process of knowledge; sankhyanam--of the empiric philosophers; karma-yogena--by the linking process of devotion; yoginam--of the devotees.

TRANSLATION

 

The Blessed Lord said: O sinless Arjuna, I have already explained that there are two classes of men who realize the Self. Some are inclined to understand Him by empirical, philosophical speculation, and others are inclined to know Him by devotional work.

PURPORT

 

In the Second Chapter, verse 39, the Lord explained two kinds of procedures--namely sankhya-yoga and karma-yoga, or buddhi-yoga. In this verse, the Lord explains the same more clearly. Sankhya-yoga, or the analytical study of the nature of spirit and matter, is the subject matter for persons who are inclined to speculate and understand things by experimental knowledge and philosophy. The other class of men work in Krsna consciousness, as it is explained in the 61st verse of the Second Chapter. The Lord has explained, also in the 39th verse, that by working by the principles of buddhi-yoga, or Krsna consciousness, one can be relieved from the bonds of action; and, furthermore, there is no flaw in the process. The same principle is more clearly explained in the 61st verse--that this buddhi-yoga is to depend entirely on the Supreme (or more specifically, on Krsna), and in this way all the senses can be brought under control very easily. Therefore, both the yogas are interdependent, as religion and philosophy. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, or sometimes fanaticism, while philosophy without religion is mental speculation. The ultimate goal is Krsna, because the philosophers who are also sincerely searching after the Absolute Truth come in the end to Krsna consciousness. This is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita. The whole process is to understand the real position of the self in relation to the Superself. The indirect process is philosophical speculation, by which, gradually, one may come to the point of Krsna consciousness; and the other process is directly connecting with everything in Krsna consciousness. Of these two, the path of Krsna consciousness is better because it does not depend on purifying the senses by a philosophical process. Krsna consciousness is itself the purifying process, and by the direct method of devotional service it is simultaneously easy and sublime.

 

[Guest guest]

----

Some are inclined to understand Him by empirical, philosophical speculation, and others are inclined to know Him by devotional work.

----

if krishna was refering to himself then he would have used the word 'me' but he says Him...why? cos krishna in gita is not representing the 8th avatar of maha vishnu....it is only fitting that krishna in gita represents Brahman...the Supreme.....dont tell that supreme is krishna (if u can really understand what is brahman)....if u do so then u loose the entire essence of the verse....

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

Quote of the Day-

if krishna was refering to himself then he would have used the word 'me' but he says Him...why? cos krishna in gita is not representing the 8th avatar of maha vishnu....it is only fitting that krishna in gita represents Brahman...the Supreme.....dont tell that supreme is krishna (if u can really understand what is brahman)....if u do so then u loose the entire essence of the verse....

-----

 

So your saying Krishna is Supreme Brahman but not really Supreme Brahman. Ok I can see you understand Gita. I think you should re-read that verse. Speculation about Brahman will get your nowhere. It beyond conception. So read Gita by somebody who actually knows!

 

 

[Guest guest]

"f krishna was refering to himself then he would have used the word 'me' but he says Him...why? "

 

because krsna is speaking generically of spiritualists who can search the absolute without directly searching for Him

 

there's no shortage of verses where krsna speaks of himself as the ultimate goal

 

himself.. not himself as a representatiion of inpersonal brahman

 

(if you want to promote your own theories, why the need to misinterprete the gita?

be honest and make your own path)

[Guest guest]

"Most scholars, Hindu or Non-Hindu, agree that Puranas are not scriptures"

 

that's your opinion. Of course the materialists are interested to cut away the activity from the absolute with the purpose to bring people gradually to the atheism

To them Sri Shankara Acharya says "bhaja govindam.. mudha mate"... "worship govinda stupid intellectuals"

 

"Then why the hell are you quoting from gita?"

 

because it is absolute truth

 

[BinduMadhav 0]

{But is Bhakti THE PATH to GOD?

 

Not if you think logically and understand Bhagavad-Gita itself.}

 

I have seen a lot of posts but this one beats every one of them in sheer horror.

 

[Guest guest]

**********

Bhakti is a not even a path, its a way of life. It's the souls natural thing that it wants. It's eternal.

*********

 

Yes. Bhakti is the mother. It comes by His grace. Without Bhakti Jnana will not descend and neither will karma be ever self less.

 

All three together will liberate. The differences are of Vak. Surrender is the first step. But one cannot surrender without his grace since ego will always go in the opposite direction of surrender.

[Guest guest]

"f krishna was refering to himself then he would have used the word 'me' but he says Him...why? "

 

Krishna is not refering to himself but to the soul (self).

[Guest guest]

The theory of knowledge.

The man acts: 1) at usual under logic program,

2)sometimes on intuition .

The comments from my guest book (26.03.05):

very interesting site... hard to understand but i'll try,

i am interested in meditation and nirvana stuff and this is first time

i heard about sciencial explanation about this...

thank you for your work and keep on searchin' ........... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Comments from letters:

1) I really wanted to understand my existence in this world,

somehow you've explained it.

2) I especially liked the explanation of 'nirvana' and the quantum light.

* * *

If you have time and desire, I ask you to visit my site

http://www.socratus.com

Best regards.

Socratus.

[BinduMadhav 0]

Bhakti is NOT A PATH?

 

What nonsense?

 

This guy is a demented fool and he has no idea what he is talking about.

[Guest guest]

***** This guy is a demented fool and he has no idea what he is talking about. ********

 

 

He knows. And yours is not away to debate.

[BinduMadhav 0]

{He knows. And yours is not away to debate. }

 

What do you mean by saying 'He knows'? Are you agreeing with him? And why are you saying that I don't have a right to debate?

[Guest guest]

You have full right to debate. But you are not debating by calling him demented fool.

[BinduMadhav 0]

{You have full right to debate. But you are not debating by calling him demented fool.}

 

You are right. The gentleman called Atanu (who calls himself Om Namah Sivaya) wrote the same thing in another thread.

 

Rajasekar, please accept my apologies. You are certainly confused (since you say that Bhakti is not a path), and you ARE WRONG; but I have no right to call you a demented fool.