How did caste and varna system originate?

[Guest guest]

From The Mahabharata- Santi Parva

Section CLXXXVIII

 

Brigu said,"There is really no distinction between the different orders. The whole world at first consisted of Brahmanas. Created equal by the Creator, men have in consequence of their acts, become distributed into different orders. They that became fond of indulging in desire and enjoying pleasures, possessed of the attributes of severity and wrath, endued with courage, and unmindful of the duties of piety and worship, - these Brahmanas possessing the attribute of Passion, - became Kshatriyas.

 

Those Brahmanas again who, without attending to the duties

laid down for them, became possessed of both the attributes of Goodness and Passion, and took to the professions of cattle-rearing and agriculture, became Vaisyas. Those Brahmanas again that became fond of untruth and injuring other creatures, possessed of cupidity, - engaged in all kinds of acts for a living, and fallen away from purity of behaviour, and thus wedded to the attribute of Darkness, became Sudras.

 

Separated by these occupations, Brahmanas, falling away from their own order, became members of the other three orders. All the four orders, therefore, have always the right to the performance of all pious duties and of sacrifices. Even thus were the four orders at first created equal by Brahma (the Creator) who ordained for all of them (the observances disclosed in) the words of Brahma (in the Vedas). Through cupidity alone, many fell away, and became possessed by ignorance.

 

Bharadwaja said:" By what acts does one become a Brahman? By what a Kshatriya? By what acts again does one become a Vaisya or a Sudra? Tell me this, O foremost of speakers."

 

He is called a Brahmana in whom are truth, gifts, abstention from injury to others, compassion, shame, benevolence and penance.

 

He who is engaged in the profession of battle, who studies the Vedas, who makes gifts (to Brahmanas) and takes wealth (from those he protects) is called a Kshatriya.

 

He who earns fame from keep of cattle, who is employed in agriculture and the means of acquiring wealth, who is pure in behaviour and attends to the study of the Vedas, is called a Vaisya.

 

He who takes pleasure in eating every kind of food, who is engaged in doing every kind of work, who is impure in behaviour, who does not study the Vedas, and whose conduct is unclean, is said to be a Sudra.

 

If these characteristics be observable in a Sudra, and if they be not found in a Brahmana, then such a Sudra, is no Sudra, and such a Brahmana is no Brahmana.

 

From The Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva

section CLXIV

 

All men are equal in respect of their physical organism.

All of them, again, are possessed of souls that are equal

in respect of their nature. When dissolution comes, all else dissolve away. What remains is the inceptive will to achieve Righteousness.

 

From the Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva

Section CXLIII

If the Sudra desires to be a Vaisya, he should abstain from meat of animals not slain in sacrifices. He should be truthful in speech, and free from pride and arrogance

 

If a Vaisya,( after becoming a Kshatriya, wishing to become a Brahmana), goes through the usual purificatory rites, becomes invested with the sacred thread, and betakes himself to the observance of vows, he should make presents, adore the deities in great sacrifices with plentiful Dakshinas (gifts), study the Vedas.

 

Even a Sudra that has purified his soul by pure deeds and that has subjugated all his senses, deserves to be waited upon and served with reverence as a Brahmana.. This has been said by the Self-born Brahman Himself

 

The boon giving Brahma, while he created all creatures, himself said that the distribution of human beings into the four orders dependent on birth is only for purposes of classification. The Brahmana who wishes to achieve his own good should always adhere to the path of righteousness. He should always be devoted to the study of the Vedas, but he should never derive the means of sustenance from such study.

 

From The Mahabharata, Santi Parva

Section CCXL:

 

Vyasa said: Even if a person happens to belong to the inferior order (Sudra), even if one happens to be a woman, both of them, by following in the path of Yoga, will surely attain to the highest end.

 

 

From The Mahabharata, Santi Parva

Section CCXXXVIII

 

Vyasa said:

 

In the Kali Yuga, the duties of the respective order

disappear and men become afflicted by inequity.

 

So now it must be clear to all.Sudras if they want can do any job.THey even can become bhramins.Bhramins can become sudras.Varna comes by birth and nature.One can do any trade as he wishes.Varna by birth is just for classification.You can rise high.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

informative

[Guest guest]

{So now it must be clear to all.Sudras if they want can do any job.THey even can become bhramins.Bhramins can become sudras.Varna comes by birth and nature.One can do any trade as he wishes. Varna by birth is just for classification. You can rise high.}

 

Well you wern't so clear before. So you do believe that people can move between castes in this very birth? The thing is I know of many Brahmin families who raise their kids in a totally western p-sec way, who's lifestyle can best be described as disgraceful. Now how can we still call people like this brahmins if they do not posses the right attributes and posses attributes of a sudra? By still calling them brahmins, isn't that an insult to the true brahmins?

[Guest guest]

I always said I believed in varnas and not caste.There is inter movement between varnas,but that rarely happens.Many bhramins arent bhramins.They have fallen from a dharma and dont qualify to be called so.

 

The only caste that has stuck to the vedas is the dalit community.Even after centuries of misguided,barbaric oppression 70 to 80% of them still are hindu.IN dalit colonies, you can see huge crowds during temple festivals.Dalit poojaries proudly work in temples for low salaries or even without salaries.

 

Its better to make them come to agrahara and give them titles like sathurvedi and trivedi.We can send all the upper caste people who oppress them to fight the war in chachanya.Russians need fighters who never tire up.Let peace loving upper castes and dalits live in harmony.

[Guest guest]

So we more or less agree with on varna. On the other thread you appeared to be casteist.

 

Swami Vivekananda said that all the caste's needs to be raised to a higher spiritual level, not for the Brahmins to be lowered, but for everyone to spiritually evolve including the lower caste's. The original varna system had a purpose to it which was later grossly misused.

[Guest guest]

I sounded more casteist in other thread since I wanted to stress that caste comes by birth. But since I have told it can also be changed, we look in agreement.

 

we differ in only one technical point.You people say caste comes by gunas.I say No it comes by birth,but can be changed if you dont like it.Thats all.

 

To an advaithi, everything is bhramman.What is caste, what is varna?