advaitha is the truth-proof from vedas

[Guest guest]

Mandukya Upanishad says that ‘Shantam Shivam Chaturtham Advaitam Manyante’,

i.e. the peaceful, non-dual, fourth state of Consciousness is Shivam

 

Vedas clearly say that advaitha is the ultimate objective here.Advaitha is called as the fourth state.Is vishisthathvaidha or dwaitha called the fifth state?If so prove it.

 

and further vedas say

 

Anya devtham upasthe anyasow,anyoham asmithi( He who worships a god thinking that it is different from him is as naïve as a cow.)

 

what does the visisthathvaidha version of these verses?

[Guest guest]

vedas say every god as parabhramman. This includes Indhra, vayu, agni,Vishnu and Shiva.I am yet to see a vedic verse which says this god is inferior to this god.

 

If we see vedas with dvaidhic view point, then hinduism will be reduced to paganism.Because we cannot have so many parabhrammans.There can be only one parabhramman.So we have to ultimately accept the advaithic view point.

 

But I have to ask priya one thing.The hardcore krishna bakths here are happy with vishithathvaidha.That is also a stepping stone to advaitha.I am sure that maybe except kanchi jayendra swami,there is no living human today who has reached the advaithic stage.All of us are still in dwaidhic stage. Maybe we will march to advaitha, maybe we wont.

 

So why do you want to discourage these hardcore krishna bhakths from their belief?You can win the argument, but what will be the purpose?You are teaching 8th standard students PHd subjects.The funniest part is that you are also in 8th standard.

 

If you prove advaitha is the ultimate truth in vedas, i bet that most of these krishna bakths will leave hinduism.Let them have their faith, let you have yours.

 

The real fight is in the adhivasi villages of chattisgarh, where tribals are converted to christianity.Debate there.

 

Lord Ram bless you.

[Guest guest]

There can be only one parabhramman

--of course, param bhraman is a personality

 

So we have to ultimately accept the advaithic view point.

--if you accept it you have to explain why the absolute miss all the features present in the relative

 

The hardcore krishna bakths here are happy with vishithathvaidha

--krsna bhakta knows that he is one with god in quality and different in the fact that he's subordinate to god... otherwise how can god lose even if momentarily his powers and be subjected by maya?

 

So why do you want to discourage these hardcore krishna bhakths from their belief?You can win the argument

--the argument has to be won with logic... until now there's no victory by advaitins here

 

If you prove advaitha is the ultimate truth in vedas, i bet that most of these krishna bakths will leave hinduism

--if one lives his belonging to a religion with blind faith, he can leave at any moment for any reason... if one's honest when he hear something better he changes (bhakti and advaita are opposite, one can be bhakta or advaita, the hinduism as something who reunites both ideas is an illusion)

 

The real fight is in the adhivasi villages of chattisgarh, where tribals are converted to christianity.Debate there.

--where's the need? if one converts to something it is because he does not really practice his original religion. So if one is ready to leave his beliefs actually he has no belief

 

Lord Ram bless you.

--if you as an advaitin think that ram is simply an illusory image to represent brahman for ignorant personalists, why you pray him to bless someone? be coherent, if you think that ram is maya and nirguna brahman is the reality, why are you speaking of ram? if i am RAM.. where's the need to be blessed by ME?

[Guest guest]

<--- If we see vedas with dvaidhic view point, then hinduism will be reduced to paganism.Because we cannot have so many parabhrammans.There can be only one parabhramman.--->

 

Above quote describes you dont have any knowledge in dvaitha. dvaitha also believes in one God. dvaita doesnt tell that there are two parabrahmas. According to dvaita, theres only one prabrahma & prabrahma is Lord Hari.

 

All the richness of Advaitha & Vishistadvaitha are found in dwaita itself. So dwaitha is a complete philosophy, whereas others are not.

 

First try to read & understand dwaita rather than coming to hasty conclusions.

 

Anyway hers the essence of dvaita :

 

ViShNu is the supreme God,

The world is real,

The five-fold difference between God, living and non-living beings is an eternal fact,

All living beings are dependent upon Hari for their existence

There is a hierarchy amongst living beings, that is eternal (without beginning or end)

Salvation lies in the soul experiencing its intrinsic joy,

Salvation can be attained only through pure and unsullied devotion of God means of knowledge are sensory perception, inference and holy scriptures

Hari is to be perceived in His nature through the holy scriptures and only through them.

In addition to the above points, Acharya made several important contributions to Indian Philosophy. Some of these are:

Bimba-pratibimba: God is the object (bimba) and jIvas are His images (pratibimbas)·

Sarva-shabda vAchatva: every word, every sound is God’s name.

Jeeva traividya: three-fold classification of jIvas into Satvika (fit for liberation), Nitya-samsAri (happiness mixed with sorrow), tAmasika (fit for eternal damnation)

Vishesha: A special characteristic that acts as a distinguishing feature where there is innately no difference.

The concept of “Sakshi” and its importance.

Treating all the Hindu scriptures as an integral entity, unlike others who treat differentiate and discriminate between different portions of scriptures. He showed how seemingly conflicting passages from different scriptures should be interpreted to yield one coherent message.

Providing a spiritual and philosophical interpretation of the Rig Veda. As an example, he interpreted forty sUktas to show how it should be done.

 

Now where does dvaita tell three are two parabrahmas.

 

Dvaita is called dualism because it tells god & jiva are different, it does not tell there are two parabrahmas as you are thinking.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Shri Dhuupa theerthaya Namaha

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Shri Guru Raghavendraya Namaha

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya Namaha

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

Heres real Mandukya Upanishad. It tells Hari is supreme. i dunno where u have got idea that Mandukya upanishad telling shiva as supreme ?

 

Mandukya Upanishad

1 Hari is AUM. AUM is all that is here. This is what we hear about AUM: The past, the present and the future are AUM, And That beyond these three is also AUM.

2 Brahman is indeed all this. This self in us is also Brahman. And this self has four planes.

3 Vaisvanara is the first stage. Wakeful, outwardly conscious, With seven limbs and nineteen mouths, He is the enjoyer of the gross objects.

4 Taijasa is the second stage. Dreaming, inwardly conscious, With seven limbs and nineteen mouths, He is the enjoyer of the subtle objects.

5 In deep sleep, seeking no desires, Dreaming no dreams, unified into The mass of greater consciousness, Full of bliss, enjoying bliss only, Face turned towards Chetasa, Is Pragna the third stage.

6 This is the Master of All, the Omniscient, The Inmost Dweller and source of Creation and destruction of all beings.

7 Conscious neither internally nor externally, Nor either ways, neither ordinary consciousness, Nor the greater and the deeper consciousness, Invisible, otherworldly, incomprehensible, Without qualities, beyond all thoughts, Indescribable, the unified soul in essence, Peaceful, auspicious, without duality, Is the fourth stage, that self, that is to be known.

8 The same Atman is AUM among the syllables, Each syllable in the word AUM is a stage. They Are the letter A, the letter U and the letter M.

9 The wakeful Vaishwanara is the First letter "A", being the first letter and All pervasive. He who knows thus realizes All his desires and becomes foremost too.

10 The dreaming Taizasa is the second Letter "U", being superior and situated in The middle. He who knows thus attains Knowledge and children equally and none In his family would be ignorant of Brahman

11 In the world of deep sleep, Pragna, is the Third letter "M", being the limit and the end of All diversity. He who knows thus is free from All diversity and becomes one with the Self.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya Namaha

[Guest guest]

"Mandukya Upanishad says that ‘Shantam Shivam Chaturtham Advaitam Manyante’,

i.e. the peaceful, non-dual, fourth state of Consciousness is Shivam

 

Vedas clearly say that advaitha is the ultimate objective here.Advaitha is called as the fourth state"

 

And Hari/Hara isn't advaita nondual, 1 w/o a 2nd, not subject to maya (duality)? Accordin vedas yes, according keval advaita no.

 

 

"Anya devtham upasthe anyasow,anyoham asmithi( He who worships a god thinking that it is different from him is as naïve as a cow.)"

 

God is yourself but not in the absolute sense. Oneness is in many places in vedas. But not absolute oneness (kaival advaita).

 

Saints like Sridhar Svami and Tukaram have sometimes said they are one with Krishna. But not in the absolute sense. Of course keval advaitins will misinterpret this like they do vedas. Oh well.

[Guest guest]

"Is vishisthathvaidha or dwaitha called the fifth state?If so prove it"

 

kathopanisad

 

1-III-11. The unmanifested (avyakta) is subtler than Mahat (Hiranyagarbha) and subtler than the unmanifested is Purusha. There is nothing subtler than Purusha. That is the end, that is the supreme goal

 

mundakopanisad

 

III-i-3: When the seer sees the Purusha – the golden-hued, creator, lord, and the source of the inferior Brahman – then the illumined one completely shakes off both merit and demerit, becomes taintless, and attains equality

[Guest guest]

 

 

Hi, can you tell me the exact verse in the vedas where this is written? Also what edition of the Vedas did you get it from?

 

"Anya devtham upasthe anyasow,anyoham asmithi"