Shiva is non-other than Sukadeva Gosvami, topmost Vaishnava

[Guest guest]

Your love is blind. Read from Upanishads and from Shruti. Do not claim that you are not a fallen angel from Vaikuntha.

 

From Upanishad

 

'When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor nonexistence; Shiva (the blessed One) alone is there.' (Svet. Up. IV. 18.)

 

Suta Samhita

Vrikshasyamula Sekena Shakhahpusyanti Vaiyatha Shive Rudre Japatpreteprita Yevasya Devatah

 

By watering the tree at the base of the trunk all the parts of the tree including branches, leaves, fruits etc are strengthened. In the same way by worshipping Shiva all will be pleased and one will get both the earthly and heavenly benefits including liberation.

 

Three Slokas from Shree Rudram

 

Prostrations to the one who is the eldest and the youngest. Prostrations to the primordial cause and the subsequent effect. Prostrations to the eternal youth; who is also the infant. Prostrations to the one who is in the loins and in the roots. Prostrations to the one present in vice and virtue and all that is dynamic.

 

oM namo bhagavate rudrAya vishhNave mR^ityurme pAhi |

prANAnAM granthirasi rudro mA vishAntakaH |

tenAnnenApyAyasva || 6||

namo rudraaya vishhNave mR^ityurme pAhi

 

agnaavishhNuu sajoshhasemaa vardhantu vaaM giraH |

dyumnairvaajebhiraagatam.h

 

The last two slokas establish that Rudra himself is all pervading – Vishnave and agnaavishnuu

 

Lest the above slokas be considered Tamasic, I reproduce below some from Rig Veda.

 

 

Rig Veda 7.46.2

He through his lordship pervades in all things and beings on the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial power. Please Come willingly to our doors that gladly welcome You (O Rudra), and heal all sickness, in our families.

 

Note: He through his lordship pervades in all things and beings on the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial power.

 

Your well wisher

 

[Guest guest]

You have stated:

 

"This is the understanding of all real Vaishnavas, saints, gurus, angels, in all existing dimensional realms."

 

Your view is of Vaishnavas and not of Shaivais, Saktas, Muslims, Christians, Jews etc.

 

Your view is of Vaishnavas and hence cannot be the view of the one Sat-Chit-Anand, who is Vishnu.

 

Vishu wears insignisa of Shiva - the trident on his forehead and Shiva prays to Vishnu.

 

Vishnu became Budha and Jesus. So what you claim as Vaishnava absolute truth is in your mind only and not in Sat-Chit-Anand who is all.

 

Your well wisher

[atanu 0]

Dear Frodo,

 

You say,

 

"The essence of Vaishnavism is to undestand with the heart the eternal oneness in love of Vishnu-deva (Krishna) and Lakshmi-devi (Radharani), God-Father and God-Mother, with all their eternal beautiful children."

 

But from your thread heading and what you have written so far, the above statement of yours gets no support.

 

On the contrary it is a burning example of I, ME, and Mine. Albiet, I, Me, and My God. Your views are not views of Vaishnavism.

 

I mean no offence here. If you percieve offence here, it will be due to your preference. Only universal love is good and that is the essence of Vaishnavism.

 

Atanu

 

 

[Guest guest]

Guest,

 

The resolution of the intollerance is to be tollerant in love.

 

Tollerance in love means to know where tollerance is appropriate and where it is not.

 

Sensing the love of Krishna, we automatically are tollerant.

 

A realized soul is always tollerant, in order to eliminate intollerance he/she directly criticize the inproper behaviour of others, in clear words.

 

Intollerant, non-integer inviduals often mix-up intollerance with uncompromised, integer speaking of the truth.

 

Love is the solution for everything,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

Guest,

 

Blind consciousness is hurting the hearts of realized souls.

 

In cage consciousness emprisoned brother of sisters of realized souls is the deepest sufferings of a realized soul and of Krishna, God-Father and Radharani, God-Mother too, of course.

 

It is very hurting the hearts of a realized soul to see that many wonderful still emprisoned brother and sisters are not capable to sense the truth themselves and must only rely on what others said or what in sastras is written and described or on very old heart rememberings of how everything was/is prior to their desolated/non-hoping-for-any-liberation enslavement throughout the fallen angels from Vaikuntha/asuras.

 

I know, dear soul, that your suffering is ending very soon.

 

Deep embrassements to you, wonderful soul,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

 

Guest,

 

The mind of a realized soul is totally one with his pure heart.

 

Realized souls' speaking is not subjected to his/her personal views, opinions but to the sensing and speaking of the eternal truth/wisdom as it is and which is accessible to anyone except to those wonderful souls that still are emprisoned in deep emotional sufferings.

 

Vishnu is indeed wearing the trident on his forehead, Krishna is wearting it on his lotus feet too.

 

All children of Vishnu are very dear to Vishnu-deva and Lakshmi-devi, not only Shiva.

 

Ciao, dear friend,

Frodo

 

 

[Guest guest]

Atanu,

 

The I of a realized soul is one with the I of every of his/her realized brother and sisters.

 

No contradictions in what I say you will find in Vedic knowledge, being multidimensional, unlimited and accessible for real understanding only within our hearts.

 

Speaking wisdom does not need/imply any supports from explanations, viewpoints of others currently not capable to dock-in into the ray of wisdom, due to their deep emotional sufferings.

 

Universal love means to sense in us the deep desire to serve everyone, not only to serve Krishna and Radharani, but to serve all our eternal beautiful brother and sisters too.

 

The serving of others just to be done because we must, but we can not sense/perceive in our hearts any pleasures or satisfactions in doing this, should be stopped immediately, because this middle-age-influenced-mea-culpa understanding of servitude has nothing to do with Krishna Consciousness.

 

If we struggle in our hearts with deep emotional sufferings and blockages, we are not capable to sense the universal love, i.e. the constant love and service others give to us, God and all His eternal children.

 

First we must be healed in our hearts, than we can sense/perceive with our hearts ourselves that we are loved by all souls in any realms, except of course by the rebells/asuras, and than real non-dogmatic-linear-based eternal dynamic enjoyment in serving others is manifested to everyone life.

 

Enslaved, we-must because Krishna says this etc. so-called devotional service/servitude is not Krishna Consciousness/Vaishnava/Spirituality life, but asuric methods to further humiliate any suffering souls, forcing them to do things that do only result in further emotional sufferings of total desolation and isoltation.

 

Vaishnavism is equivalent as Universal love to everyone, to God, Radha/Krishna, and to all Their eternal beautiful children.

 

A Vaishnava is someone that is one in love with everyone, still fully conscious to be an eternal invidual wonderful child of Krishna, and totally compassionate to all suffering living beings, and always doing everything to relieve/alleviate the sufferings of his/her brother and sisters.

 

Offenses are understandable for suffering honest souls, although the word offenses is improper, as most people do not commit any offenses to anyone, also when criticing Krishna or His realized children or specific philosophical aspects of spirituality.

 

Only asura souls, fallen angels from Vaikuntha, whose hearts are pure enviousness towards everything divine, God, Vishnu-deva and Lakshmi-devi and to Their eternal beloved childrne, are constantly committing offenses.

 

An offense is only possible when the heart is pure envious, as the hearts of all rebells are.

 

The hearts of most of still suffering souls was/is never envious, therefore the word offense is obsolete and should NEVER be mentioned/used, as if mentioned/used will only increase the existing sufferings in their hearts in form of additional guilty sentiments, additional sentiments of not allowed to speak what they want to speak, reaulting in deeper and deeper isolation conditions, scared to open the mouth in general or stay in front of the deities or so-called Vaishnava authorities, as others have forced us to make us thinking that Krishna is hating us if we do not think or behave like they say.

 

Condamning honest souls doing Vaishnava aparadhas/offenses is very dangerous, when not capable to sense the heart of the soul criticing someone/anything.

 

To speak up from our hearts and our deepest feelings is the base of sadhu-sanga, Krishna Consciousness.

 

When honest Vaishnavas/souls who are totally suffering and therefore unable for the moment to sense the universal love, i.e. the constant embrassements of Krishna/Radharani to us and those of all our brother and sisters in all realms, than that soul must speak of what their heart must say to get relief from the suffering.

 

By just pointing out fingers to people when they say things others than others want to hear, because they think (but not sense) that this is not needed for spiritual advancement saying that this speaking is maya/prajalpa/superfical/non-spiritual-/Krishna Consciousness-related discussions/speaking, ONLY THAN the understanding of Vaishnava Aparadha is appropriate.

 

Healing in the hearts of suffering honest souls, is easily achieved when they can speak up, if needed for days, of everything they want, all their miseries experienced, all their problems, all their desires, all their hopes, all their fears, all their experiences, all their criticism, all their disappointments, all their disagreements, in all aspects of life.

 

By Vaishnava-like listening to others words, we can give by only kindful listening and heartly participate in the discussions as a friend does (A Vaishnava is a friend of everyone) than the suffering soul feels him/herself understood and appreciated. Finally someone open-hearted and integer, not mind-brain-washed is listening to me, without criticing me and judging and condamning me as being in maya, being fallen, being materialist, being an atheist, committing offenses to guru, sadhu, sastra etc.

 

ONLY when suffering wonderful souls feels themselves totally respected, honoured, understood, appreciated, loved by a friend, i.e by a Vaishnava, than a healing in their heart can happen.

 

A Vaishnava is a friend of everyone, taking the needs and problems of his/her brother and sisters as his/her owns.

 

Vaishnava means a friend of everyone, Shivaites, Christians, Moslems, Jews etc. are also friends of everyone.

 

An angel, a devata, a sura, a light being, a Vaishnava, a friend, a child of God - all this means the same.

 

In love to you and to everyone else, dear souls,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

Dear Frodo,

 

Yes,

 

The I of a realized soul is one with the I of every of his/her realized brother and sisters.

 

Every one will see the I. I pray that experience becomes permanent for all of us. So there will be no offence and no pain all will be bliss.

 

Love to you

 

Atanu

[Guest guest]

if he is ALL, included shiva, it means that he's shiva and not that shiva is Him

 

hmmm...hmmm....

 

when you will demonstrate it better

 

hmmmm....hmmm....

 

but if one's the father and one's the son, meaning and names are different

 

hmmm....hmmm....

 

many thanks

 

most welcome. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

yes, you are a prophet, are'nt you happy?

 

hmmm....hmmm....

 

this subject is not pseudoimportant and there's no problem in discussing when it is done in a civil manner.

 

an initial civil discussion ( here a debate of faith) leads to more fatalistic fanaticism...eventually...hence should be avoided regarding unnecessary sensitive topics. by 'civilized' people i mean. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

tolerance means that we are not scandalized by differences, not that we abolish difference to avoid scandals.. i have no problems if you think different by me.. and you? let us grow up in our tolerance... also "everything is the same" is a fanaticism

 

hmmm....hmmmm....ok!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

buddy, nothing comes out of these discussions except hatred and heated words ...there can be no civil debate regarding topics of faith. so y have them at all?

 

urs to you and mine to mine and everyone to theirs.

 

peace to all.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Atanu,

 

You are a wonderful soul! :-)

 

In love,

Frodo

[Guest guest]

 

Guest,

 

I fully agree with what you say.

 

You are a wonderful soul, too! :-)

 

In love,

Frodo