Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 you are simply not competent, study a little before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 "Vedas clearly teach that Lord Vishnu is supreme." Have you read the Vedas? Can you truly say so or are you just repeating what your leader said? As far as research goes in the Vedas, Vishnu is identified with the sun and although he is mentioned it is very little considering Vaishnavas claim he is the supreme God. The gods that is mentioned more are Vedic gods such as Indra, Agni, Mitra, etc. When you talk of Vishnu being mentioned in the Vedas you should try to understand in what context. The Vedas seem to imply that these are just names for God and are invoked at certain times. All these sects just CLAIM to be derived from the Vedas, but most sects are really following the Puranas or Upanishads (it they more follow Vedanta than sectarian traditions) while giving a nod to the Vedas. The truth is most of the Vaishnava and Shivite sects just claim to follow the Vedas, when what they really follow is whatever their guru or founder of sect said and believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 " The Vedas seem to imply that these are just names for God and are invoked at certain times." •••yes, to seem is the right term, it seems to you.. to me seems that all these names and devatas that are invoked have different personalities and different position and function in the universe most sects are really following the Puranas or Upanishads ••that have the same value of the vedas and necessary to get the complete picture of the dharma when what they really follow is whatever their guru or founder of sect said and believed. •••this explain your free, loving, democratic and antisectarian mood.. who do not agrees with you is a fanatic following some fanatic in a fanatic sect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Yes, but your beliefs anyway, are really nothing but opinions and have NO MONOPOLY on Truth. I never said I fanatically believed in anything of the sort, you falsely assumed that to make yourself look better. What you have accused me of in your post clearly demonstrates what you are guily of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 "I never said I fanatically" ok, you have said that people do not know vedas, that people simply follow wathever is said by leaders and you have said it not fanatically... very good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 so, should hindus read the vedas, like christians the bible? I mean, the bible is a case for itself, because it has to be interpreted and I don't think that many people really understand what is meant by certain lines. are the vedas without any metaphors? does it "suffice" to read them in order to know what's 'true'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Have you read the Vedas? Can you truly say so or are you just repeating what your leader said? I do not need to prove anything to an ignoramus like you. Please refer to posts that show Vedic verses in support of Lord Visnu's supremacy. As far as research goes in the Vedas, Vishnu is identified with the sun and although he is mentioned it is very little considering Vaishnavas claim he is the supreme God. Your statements show your ignorance. Please refer to Rig Veda 7:40:5, Vayu Sukta, Devi Sukta and Visvakarma Sukta of Rig Veda. All these show supremacy of Lord Visnu imlicitly and explicitly. As for Sun, only ignoramus without sanskrit knowledge and without knowledge of Vedas would give such statements. Eventhough Lord Visnu is mentioned with specific reference to Vamana avatara, this is no means reference to Lord Visnu as Sun God. Tatittiriya Samhita explicitly mentions Agni is the lowest and Visnu is the highest GOD. What do you say about this ? The gods that is mentioned more are Vedic gods such as Indra, Agni, Mitra, etc. One cannot learn what Vedas teach from statistics. When you talk of Vishnu being mentioned in the Vedas you should try to understand in what context. and what is this context ? Lay down the specifics here. The Vedas seem to imply that these are just names for God and are invoked at certain times. You are half right. Read Visvakarma Sukta which clearly shows that these names belong to Lord VISNU and no one else. All these sects just CLAIM to be derived from the Vedas, but most sects are really following the Puranas or Upanishads (it they more follow Vedanta than sectarian traditions) while giving a nod to the Vedas. For your information, Upanishads(authentic ones) are part of Vedas and considered Sruti. Many satvika puranas are mentioned in Vedas. Vedas have to be learnt and understood after learning puranas. The truth is most of the Vaishnava and Shivite sects just claim to follow the Vedas, when what they really follow is whatever their guru or founder of sect said and believed. general accusations without substance. One can say the same about advaitists like you. Many times Supremacy of Lord Visnu was shown with Verses from Vedas. But for those in deep denial(Advaitists) they ognore it. I cannot help those who do not want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, so, should hindus read the vedas, like christians the bible? I mean, the bible is a case for itself, because it has to be interpreted and I don't think that many people really understand what is meant by certain lines. are the vedas without any metaphors? does it "suffice" to read them in order to know what's 'true'? The issue here is what Vedas teach. I put forward the thesis that Vedas teach supremacy of Lord Visnu. I have already given verses from Vedas that prove this. If you can provide verses against it well and good. If you cannot it will be a great service not to digress from the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I am not disgressing from the issue at all, to my mind. but as some of the users here are quoting from the vedas and obviously not every hindu has read them, I guess my question is more than justified! besides, I am neither interested in proving you wrong nor supporting your arguments. I was just asking because I find this forum a great opportunity to ask hindus and get different opinions and points of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, I am not disgressing from the issue at all, to my mind. but as some of the users here are quoting from the vedas and obviously not every hindu has read them, I guess my question is more than justified! besides, I am neither interested in proving you wrong nor supporting your arguments. I was just asking because I find this forum a great opportunity to ask hindus and get different opinions and points of view. Good then. This is all in context. Vedas has to be understood along with Puranas. Otherwise it appears out of context. For example, the verse from Rig Veda 10:136:7(Vayu Sukta) vAyurasmA upAmanthat pinaSTi smA kunannamA keshIviSasya pAtreNa yad rudreNApibat saha Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend, When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, poison from the cup. The above verse has no intelligible context with reference to Vedas or Sruti ie 10:136:6 or 5 or 4 do not give the context for 10:136:7. This verse can be understood only with the help of Puranas. The story appears in Puranas that praise Lord Visnu, where the Lord takes descents or avataras to save the Devas from asuras while churning the ocean. The purana version says that Lord Shiva drank the poison to save other Devatas while the Sruti from Rig Veda says that it is Lord Vayu(God of Life) who made it digestible and easy for Lord Shiva and drank the poison along with Lord Shiva. What Vedas say is final. However it does not negate Puranas fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 but don't you think that especially when one has to consider other texts along with the vedas the understanding of the real meaning can be of problematic nature..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hare Krishna, but don't you think that especially when one has to consider other texts along with the vedas the understanding of the real meaning can be of problematic nature..? That is why you see so much confusion among Hindus themselves. This is compunded by the fact that Hinduism has so many scriptures like no other religion and is very complex. The complexity is further compunded by so many realized teachers teaching different interpretations of the Vedas. The only solution is to reject wrong ones through Logic, observation, experience and direct knowledge of Srutis or primary scriptures along with puranas. It takes time to learn true teachings of Hinduism and one needs grace from Lord Visnu to get the right knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 right... one has also to practice directly what he's studying, in this way the intelligence becomes more subtle and able to understand the various subjects.. let us not forget that vedas, upanishads, itihasas etc are meant for spiritual realization, not only culture, and there's no hope to enter in the more esoteric meanings without personal spiritual growing through the practice and the change of the behaviour from tamasic/rajasic to sattvik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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