sleepingjiva Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 what is the reason of individual souls' fall? I mean the highest planets of spiritual sky don't lack anything, so why? why r we here? also can u give me some proofs of soul in body? I'm 99% convinced that it's there, but I often find myslef in the imaginary talk with non-devotees and my arguments end at the point that I'm not able to explain why is the heart a place where soul is. I mean there's a passage in Bhagavadgita, where His Grace Srila Prabhupada asks readers, what is the source of energy in heart, if it's not a soul. And I hear voices of materialists saying: genetic, heredity factor. Please, allow me start this debate about soul regarding the fact that belief in soul is the one of the most important topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 i fail to believe i am this material body composed of flesh & blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 what is the reason of individual souls' fall? I mean the highest planets of spiritual sky don't lack anything, so why? why r we here? A very natural question that we all have had. I have heard three different answers from Gaudiya Vaisnavas to this. 1. We feel from direct pastimes with Krsna. 2.(A) We originated in the effulgence of Maha-Vishnu and had a choice to rise up into active service to Krsna or to become enamoured by the material side of active life and thus became entangled. (B) Like (A) but not all souls as some did have the origin from The aurs of different forms of Krsna and entered directly into a rasa appropriate for relating with that form of Godhead. This says there are two classes of jiva's. 3. We originated at the lowest position in the material world and are working our way up. My problem is I find it's just something that I can't comprehend at the moment with the available knowledge. The main thing is I can perceive that I am presently experiencing repeated birth and death and need to transfer my consciousness to an eternal realm to actually experience happiness in its true state. also can u give me some proofs of soul in body? You are the best proof as you are the soul. Its not that you are a body that has a soul but rather you are the soul that presently has a material body. Try using the word self in place of soul. Prominent scientists like Francis(DNA) Crick have researched the brain looking for the self with no success. He is know lecturing thsat there is no self to be found and that we in fact do not really exist. Such a silly scientist. He has successfully shown that the self must be something other than the material body though. The fact that the body still shows signs of life such as metabolism is proof of the souls existence. When we leave the body metabolism stops and that which composed the body disperses. I'm 99% convinced that it's there, but I often find myslef in the imaginary talk with non-devotees and my arguments end at the point that I'm not able to explain why is the heart a place where soul is. The soul is in the subtle body which has correspondence to the physical heart. I mean there's a passage in Bhagavadgita, where His Grace Srila Prabhupada asks readers, what is the source of energy in heart, if it's not a soul. And I hear voices of materialists saying: genetic, heredity factor. Please, allow me start this debate about soul regarding the fact that belief in soul is the one of the most important topics. Yes, a most inmportant topic for sure. I would like to reccommend a book called Who Are You by Chris Butler (AKA Siddhasvarupananda) a disciple of Srila Prabhupada which covers this very nicely and takes up the materialistic arguments and shows where they are lackin. The Identity Institute P.O. Box 11039 Honolulu Hawaii 96828 This may be an outdated address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 From Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupadas book Vaishavism Real&Apparent Jivas are of two kinds-(1)Nitya-Mukta(eternally free),(2)Nitya Baddha(eternally enslaved). Free jivas are never enslaved. They are serving the Lord in 5 diffrent functions*(as an istrument,a servant,a friend,parents and consort) In His eternal blissful abode ,where there is no change,no destruction,no misery.Jiva once entered there never comes back here. The inconceivably narrowest line of demarcation between land and water or the line where land and water meet is called tata; So also the chit world or the eternal abode of the Supreme Lord and the A-Chit world or the eternal abode ofv maya is called Tata. The power of the Supreme Lord at the Tata is known as Tataastha (Lying at the tata) or marginal power. All jivas being the display of this power HAVE THE INHERERENT OSILLIATING TENDENCY AND CAPABILITY OF GOING TO THE CHIT OR A-CHIT WORLD. TATA NOT BEING A RESTING PLACE ,JIVAS MUST GO TO THIS SIDE OR THAT: those preferrring the A-Chit ,fell into the clucthes of the octapus Maya,when these mortal costumes of mind and body were put on him as a punishment. The satanic frenzy in whichj the JIVA DISLIKES THE BLISSFUL AND ETERNAL SERVICE OF HIS MASTER AND PREFERES TO QUENCH HIS TRISTFUL DESIRES OF ENJOYING MATTER,opens before him a perpetual spring of liquid fire and posion at which he begins to drink deep . THUS IN GOING TO LORD IT OVER MAYA,JIVA BECOMES ENSALED BY HER SUBMITTED BY PITA DAS WHO STILL CAN NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO REGESTER WITH INDIADIVINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 thank you thousand times for your full-range answer. As i understood jivas etrnally free r forever free, but enslaved jivas can attain perfection if they surrender to the Supreme Lord? What is the behaviour of free jivas? where r they? how r the enslaved jivas? I'm just confused by the definition of eternity. It would mean that some people just cannot achieve love to Krshna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 "Free Jivas" enter into the eternal loving service of Shree Shree Radha and Krishna and never depart from this. "Free jivas" have no self intrest the amalabhakta the pure devottee of Lord Krishna only pleasure is serving the pleasure of thier Lord. In this they experences the highest of all tansendental happiness and assit the Lord in His pleasure pastimes. The devottees of the Lord working under the order of the bonified Spiritual Master are also considered "free jivas" because they have surrendered to the pure devottee of Lord Krishna ,who is engageing them in the same ways His Divine Grace will allways engage them even Back Home Back To Godhead If one can compeltly surrender to the pleasure of Krishna and Guru and not to the orders of the mind and senses looking for extieior pleasure,That forgenate soul can follow the orders of the spiritual master to the tee and attain Bhava real taste for devotional service at which point ,that forgenate soul is draged by his great satification to perfection Jaya Goura Nitai Your servant Pita das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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