j0v43 0 Report post Posted September 22, 2003 What can u say from these people saying that only so-called christians will be save in the last days? Do you believe in Hell and Heaven? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted September 23, 2003 any day can be your last. make spiritual progress while you still have time. do not worry about these so called "last days"! they have been saying that for the last 2000 years, but especially for the last 1000 years ;-) There is no such thing as "eternal damnation". such concept runs contrary to the idea that God is just. but there is punishment for evil deeds and reward for good ones - both are temporary and based on supreme justice, not supreme revenge for not worshiping the "right" form of God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Absolute Truth is one. Who ever know (become in fully consciousness) of the Absolute Truth (mean – God, Krishna - Bhagavan, or some of His innumerable eternal expansions) – is already saved. I do not mean who have information of Absolute Truth, or who just intellectually believe in God - I mean who is really and fully consciousness of God. It is not question of religion or syntax or designation – it is question of facts, question of final reality, and question of consciousness. You can be designated as Christian or Hindi…; or you can be follower of this or that religion – it is not important; what is important is YOUR consciousness. That is why our movement is named as “Movement for Krishna CONSCIOUSNESS” Of course there are Hell and Heaven. Also there are Lower and Middle planetary system. And there is Spiritual World. Only in Spiritual World living beings can live eternally in continuity of consciousness. In Hell very sinful living beings suffering because of their evil deeds and in Haven they enjoy reaction of their good deeds. Both (suffering and enjoy) are temporary. If hellish punishment can correct living being than it has sense, otherwise punishment is not real punishment – it is senseless cruelty. Living beings that cannot be correct nor by punishment or by reward - live in Lower planetary systems of material world in full material opulence and without disease and old age – completely according to their idea of “ideal material life”. Maybe one day in eternity they will become boring of such dull and senseless life. If yes, God’s door is open for them, also. As Kulapavana mention - There is no such thing as "eternal damnation". It is not logical, it is contrary to nature of God, it is not righteousness; it is evil and cruel… How it can be theological or spiritual concept? It is not logical – How temporary cause can create eternal effect? … It is contrary to nature of God – God is ocean of mercy, forgiveness… His love toward living beings is eternal. If there is "eternal damnation" which kind of eternal love is it? Where is mercy, compassion, forgiveness which we can find even in ordinary living beings? It is completely nonsense. God’s door is always open from His side, only we can slam it from our side. It is not righteousness – If God give free will to us (and He is) - Why would He become envious on us when we use this free will as we want? If we, because of ignorance, make decision that is not good for us – He will make such decision eternal, without possibility to ever change or correct such decision? And put us in eternal damnation of hell because we use our free will, which He gave to us. Is there any sense in it? Any internal concord with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 HareKrishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!My respectful obeisnaces unto him. I was reading these letters,very interesting.I think the "eternal damnation" has a subtle meaning to it. Probably it is the eternal cycle of birth and death. Srila Prabhupada always says material life is miserable and we should be smart to relieve ourselves from this cycle of birth and death. Iam guessing this "eternal damnation" is associated with eternal cycle of birth and death. We eternally suffer, not listening to GOD, lording over material nature, the cycle of birth and death. Also, the mentioning of punishment and rewards are but the concept of KARMA, that we talk. You get good for good and bad for bad. But the Christians dont use the word Karma. The Christian theology to me is like synopsis of Vedic scriptures,though the Bible is a non-Vedic text. Well, these are my views.Thankyou. Your servant aspiring to serve anand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted September 24, 2003 the christian concept of eternal damnation is certainly NOT comparable to samsara (reincarnation cycle). it boils down to this simple equation: rejection of God or life in sin (finite wrong) = eternal punishment in hell (infinite punishment) samsara is simply an action=reaction, temporary heaven and temporary hell in reaction to our activities Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 HareKrishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!I offer my humble obeisances unto him. No..u did not understand.Iam not comparing "eternal damnation"directly to samsara. You have to understand-what is samsara-sounds normal-but the truth is-we reject GOD and eternally punished by living in this miserable material hell-taking birth life after life-this is samasara.That is something like eternal damnation. Birth and death will be infinite if we keep rejecting GOD and you think its fun living in a place where there is disease, old age and death-to me this is a metophor-something similar like hell. We have to understand that everything is the same just that people have been interpreting things to their own whim from time immemorial.The same logic has been presented to different people at different circumstances in differen ways.But the idea that God is one and that we should love HIm is the same.We should not care too much about the intracacies but we should care to generate this unconditional love for GOD-for christians it is Jesus, for muslims it is Allah and for me it is Krishna.Thats all. This is what we should preach.Love(unconditional) for GOD-then we are true Vaishnavas and this is what my beloved spiritual father has told-His Divine Grace A.C.BhaktiVedanta Swami Prabhupada.Names might be different but the concept of devotion is the same-that is -unconditional. your servant anand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kulapavana 0 Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Vedic scriptures tend to define things very precisely. God is certainly one but in our tradition there is a lot of emphasis on philosophy. You also need to understand that in our philosophy God does not punish us for turning away from Him. That is a judeo-christian concept. Do not mix different traditions for the sake of "preaching appeal". No neeed for that at all. Everything is not the same. Just try to understand our own tradition in depth. Hare Krishna! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!I offer my respectful obeisances unto him. Yes prabhu you are right!thankyou. HareKrishna! Your servant anand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 29, 2003 You see the Christians quote out of context from the Bible. Christ words were meant for the people of Israel. He was the way anfd the light for those people. He is mentioned in Bhavishya Purana as the son of God. Christians misinterpret this as Jesus was God. This is totalyy wrong, we would have accepted Jesus as an Avataar like Lord Budhha. Jesus was simply a Guru., ver much like Srila Prabhupada. So whoever takes shelter at the feet of ANY bonafide representative of KRishna, be He Jesus, Muhammad, Srila Prabhupada, has the potential to be saved..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2004 HIYA... IM SOPHIA... IM DOING COURSEWORK ON THE OCEAN OF SAMSARA AND THE CYCLE OF BIRTH AND DEATH... IF YOU CAN PLEASE CAN YOU HELP ME I DONT KNOW MUCH ON THIS TOPIC IVE BEEN TOLD TO DO THIS SO I THOUGHT I JUS WRITE AND ASK 4 ANYONES HELP... MY EMAIL ADD IS SOPHIA__786@HOTMAIL.COM I WOULD REALLY BE THANKFULL IF U COULD SEND ME SUM INFORMATION.... THANX AND GOD BLESS YOU SOPHIA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhaktachris 0 Report post Posted March 24, 2004 Hare Krishna, Since i do not know how to post paste and cut etc. i have given you some info that should be helpfull via Hyperlink. Through the Hyperlink page below go to many places from the Vedas translated into English from the Sanskrit. Vedabase. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Vedabase google search results for Ocean of Birth and Death Click this link to access page/ENTER... /images/graemlins/grin.gif Here from the foremost authority on Vedic knowledge in simple English from A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 25, 2004 YEP, JESUS = GURU... HE SAID HE WAS SON OF GOD, NOT GOD - SO ALL CHRISTIANS, FOLLOW WHAT JESUS SAID, AND DON'T CONFUSE HIM WITH THE SUPREME GOD - SEE HIM AS A PURE DEVOTEE OF THE SUPREME...JUST LIKE MUSLIMS SEE MUHAMMED AS A DEVOTEE OF ALLAH AND VAISHNAVAS SEE PRABHUPADA AS AN ETERNALLY LIBERATED SOUL, DEVOTEE AND SERVANT OF KRISHNA HARIBOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
