Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Namaste , Here is my attempt to expose true philosophy of bhagavata purana.

I salute to the lord ganesha and godess saraswati . I salute to the divine rukmini and Krishna !

The highlighted points of this thread :

* Secret of veda*
* Aim of bhagavat purana or all shastras *
* atman is bramhan. *
* jiva merges in Krishna/atman *
* Method of worship of Krishna *
* Duality is an illusion ( path of duality is the support of sorrow) *
* Who is bhagavata *
* Relation between multiplicity of atma and inequality between gunas*
* Jivahood is a false thing *
* Atma has no bondage or liberation *
* Who is ishwara *
* There is nothing other than atman *
* Some verses from uttara gita *

Aim of all vedanta

Sutaji said to the shaunak :

“ sarvavedanta saram yadbramhatmaikatva lakshanam
Vastwadwitiyam tannishtham kaivalaikaprayojanam “ ( 12.13.12)

[ You have already know that the essence of all upanishadas is the the non-dual unity of atma and bramhan . Only this is the given subject of bhagavat purana . The aim of this ( bhagavat purana ) is “kaivalya moksha “ ( unity of atma-bramhan) only . ]


Vedas are having three divisions. Finally, aiming at unity of Brahman and Atman. The sages are in the habit of writing indirectly and I also like indirect suggestive statements. ( BP 11.21.35)

Vedas has three divisions dealing each with karma, Worship and Knowledge (Karma, Upasana, Dnyan) by which, through purity of mind, the soul reaches Brahman.
Everything is nothing but Brahman. !
Where is the division and where is the awareness of Unity or one-ness? What is the bondage and what is the freedom? There is total eternal bliss! And this is what the Vedas mean!
If, however, this is clearly stated and taught to all, the core intention of Vedas to teach life of virtue to the people will be defeated and, therefore, Krishna has arranged to keep the unity of atma and bramhan hidden.
This is the essence of the secret of Vedas and the store of hidden knowledge.

Everyone is not eligible for thinking about unity of atma-bramhan knowledge. Great sages have considered this point and kept direct meaning hidden, giving expression only to the obvious meaning of encouragement to worldly activities and dualities. Krishna also considers it the proper approach in order to maintain the evolutory nature of social structure, because normally all people like to think self different from bramhan or because they don’t understand this.

“The Vedas enjoins me alone in the form of Yadnya, me alone in the form of various deities in Devata Kanda nay whatever is super-imposed on me first and then negated in Dnyana kandas is me alone taking this stand on me as the cause of all causes and the highest reality, the Vedas posit (states) diversity as a mere illusion and then denying it, ultimately becomes quiet. This much is the import of all the Vedas. (BG 11.21.43)

I tell you the division related to the knowledge.

The spirit which is reflected in the field of the Maya is called you. Because of ignorance it is called the soul, the Jeeva.
In our dream all the objects or persons which are seen, are projected by our single mind.
Similarly this state of the soul id bound to a limited place because of ignorance. This is Jeeva”.
Now there is that spirit which is the cause of the beginning of the world, all-seeing, allknowing,
It is eternally glorious beyond our concept.
Who is God who is the doer of all actions but in reality not doer at all and there is natural eternal freedom, not born of any other object, being self-existing?
This is Shiva whose natural power is never curbed by anything and anybody, who is always fully identical with the highest bliss (Paramananda) and just as Jeeva is called you or Twam(वम्). This is called THA (तत्)
When the ignorance of Jeeva is left out and the omniscience of Shiva is also negated what remains is to be held and embraced with our totality.
For example a husband who was young and beautiful, went to other countries and after some years returned. At that time he looked older more strong and more powerful. His wife recognizes him as her husband negating both his younger form and also his new strong youth, but follows her understanding of the man, the spirit in his body.
Similarly krishna and jiva are the two qualifications of one Brahma and these two are to be set aside and our mind should catch hold of the aloneness, as abstract existence which is Brahman.
One has to unite the Jeeva and Shiva and remain eternally steadfast in my real spirit. This is mainly the subject of Dnyana Kanda.

 How one should worship krishna


"aham bramha param dham bramhaham paramam padam,evam samikshya chatmanamatmanyadhaya nishkale " (11)


Meaning : You should meditatelike this :'I am all pervading bramhan ,I am all pervading parabramhan only .In this way,you should do your self steady in ever-lasting,endless Atman. }


Atma is bramhan / jiva merges in Krishna

“kalo mayamaye jive jiva atmani mayyaje
Atma kevala atmastho vikalpapayalakshanah “ ( BP 11.24.27)

Meaning : The Time merges into Jeeva (Purusha), and the Jeeva merges into me, the Atman which has no birth. Atman is Atman itself, where there is not Vikalpa. (Duality).

Explaination :

When the Purusha is disturbed it becomes Time-Spirit and the creation, the existence and the dissolution of forms comes into being.
When these three are finished, the function of Time is also finished and naturally it gets merged into Jeeva.
Purusha who gives life to the lifeless and makes living beings from matter is called Jeeva.
By the power of Prakruti, the pure Brahman, or Purusha becomes Jeeva.
Prakruti is like a mirage; it appears but has no real existence.
If a man falls into the apparent water of mirage, he will not find actual water there, and he would not be drowned. Similarly, Prakruti is unreal and Jeeva also is unreal!
For example, if we look at the ocean, we feel that sky has fallen in it, but it will be foolish to think that the sky has fallen. Similarly, the form, the name, the quality, the Karma – are all illusions within Maya.
even if Prakruti is supposed to exist, the Jeeva-hood is false. I shall tell you the facts.
When we look into the mirror, we see ourselves as reflection, but we are aware that, we exist ourselves quite separate from the image.
similarly, though I appear to be within the created universe, i.e. Prakruti while the process of creation etc is going on, you should remember that Krishna is different from Prakruti.
The sky is seen as reflected in the water, but it does not get wet. Similarly, though atma works using Prakruti, he is not affected in any way.
When we consider on these lines, the facts, we come to the conclusion or realization that Prakruti or Maya does not exist at all, the two names viz Jeeva and Shiva are false, because what is known as Jeeva is really the Paramatman.
When the existence of Jeeva is negated, its counterpart Shiv is also finished, and what remains is Atman, one complete non-duality.
When the Jeeva remembers that it is not Jeeva, but Atman, at that moment, Jeeva becomes Absolute Reality, the Paramatman, which is having no birth, no destruction, no division, and is endless.
When in the Brahman, there is no awareness that itself is Brahman, where is the scope to say I or bramhan, and who will say it? at that stage, there is only the highest bliss!

“ avam samahit……..jyotishi sanyutam “ (BP 11.14.45)

Meaning: With his intellect thus established, he sees me in himself and himself actually merged in me (bramhan) like an individual light in the element of fire.

Explaination : When the I consciousness of the seeker becomes one with my pure nature and when he is identified with bramhan, the very urge ‘I am’, becomes merged into oneness, the non-duality.

Thus the awareness of separate I and you disappear and only the cosmic joy of Krishna remains everywhere.
Just as the brilliance of two flames become one when they are put together so the Jeeva and the energy become one in non-duality.
Jeeva is of the nature of knowledge, or “chit” in the state of non-duality.
With the association of body and organs the Jeeva is wrongly conceived as a separate entity but when understanding of non-duality arises the Jeeva merges into cosmic Atman.

Then there is only divine happiness and there is nobody to make this statement. Only joy of Atman remains as joy.
What is that state? It is like sugar eating sugar, or water bathing in water or ghee entering into ghee to enjoy the fragrance.

“ vishayan dhyayetchittam……mayyeva praliyate “ ( bP 11.14.27)

Meaning: When the mind thinks and broods about objects, it becomes attached to them and when the mind remembers me, it merges into me (atma) .

Explaination: When one thinks about the woman who is not present she is manifest before the eye of the mind, then it is natural that if one thinks about krishn who is constantly in one’s heart he will be equally manifest in one’s mind and there will be identity of both the devotee and krishna.

Then the thinker, the mind, the worries and the state of meditation-all these factors disappears and the man becomes embodied knowledge which is also called unity with bramhan.

Atma / jiva is Krishna/ bramhan .

"ghate bhinne ghatakash.....jivo bramha sampadyate punah"(BP 12.5.5)

{ When a pot is broken, the portion of sky within the pot remains as the entire sky, just as before.But because of disappearance of portion of sky within pot one thinks that it has been connected to entire sky -but in reality, it was already connected to entire sky, In the same way, when the gross and subtle bodies die, it is just like jiva has become bramhan.(In reality jiva was already bramhan .His abramhata is just a false appearance.)

“satvam chabhijayed ………jivam vihay mam “ ( BP 11.25.35)

Meaning: The Jeeva having been free from Gunas, and having dropped the idea that it is Jeeva, attains Me and thus Jeeva freed from its separateness and liberated from Gunas unites with Me. ( bramhan)

Explaination: Thus when the sense of separate existence of the soul is no more, the division between I am Body and I am Atman has no place. Then what remains? Only completeness, alone-ness which we call Brahman remains.

So, krishna’s devotees become Brahman, which is their original state.

“ jivo jivavinirmukto…..purno na bahirnantaratchharet “ ( BP 11.25.35)

Meaning: Such a person is complete Brahman as I am and he does not move either within himself or outside.

Explaination: Just as the inner side of sugar is not separate from its outer side, so Brahman is the same inside and out, and it is flawless and full of self-bliss.When the man becomes one with Brahman, there is no death for him and if he lives further according to destiny, he has no sense of I about his body. He does not look at outer objects. There is no place in his mind for any thought about object. One should be sincere in his worship of krishna, in order to be free from this ignorance and that is the reason why saints are loving the path of devotion with all their heart.
There is nothing higher than my devotion and if that devotion is one-pointed, then all the four liberations are his servants.

“avam krushnatmanatheshu…..nrushu sadhushu “ (BP 11.3.29)

He should also learn to love those persons who have realized Shri Krishna as their Atman, and as the Lord of their life, to serve human beings especially those among them who are Mahatmas and sages.

“ natma jajan…..vikalpitam sat “(BP 11.3.38)

Meaning: This Atman was not born, will never die. It neither grows nor decays; because it is the witness of the different states of those objects, which are created and destroyed. It is omnipresent and eternally abiding pure consciousness; yet it appears as many (like Prana) under the limited
power of the senses.

“ avamamagnairkya….hi sah “ ( BP 11.3.55)

Meaning: thus he who worships the God, as Atman, in the fire, in the Sun, in the water etc., and in the guest or visitor, or in his own heart, really becomes liberated without much delay.

“ avam gurupasanayyekabhaktya……..sampadya chatmanamatha tyajastram (11.12.24)

Meaning : Having subdued yourself and remaining alert all the time, cut at the root of your astral body with exclusive devotion to me, acquired by sitting at the feet of a Guru or by means of the sharp axe of wisdom and having thereby realized the self, cut off immediately the weapon with which you have removed the veil of ignorance in the form of your Jeevahood.

“avam vimrushya….makhilasanshayadhim “ (BP 11.13.23)

Meaning: You should think like this and arrive at the conclusion about the nature of the self that the three states of mind born out of three Gunas are falsely superimposed on Me as the Jeeva, by my delusive Power (Maya) and should cut at the root of egoism, the basis of all doubts, with the sword of Wisdom fortified by reasoning, the precepts of saints and the texts of Shruti
(Upanishads), and join in the Unity with Me seated in your heart.

“ guneshwavishate cheto…….madatmanah “ (BP 11.13.25)

O my sons! The mind enters into the Gunas and the Gunas get imprinted on the mind, but the objects and the mind, both constitute the adjuncts on the Jeeva, which is I, and if Jeeva contemplates on its essential nature which is Brahman, He can easily disconnect the sense objects and the mind from Him.

“ahametatprasankhyanam….. bhavo vidyate kwachit “ (BP 11.16.38)

The Lord said - I am the knowledge of these principles and the counting of them. I am the Jeeva, I am the God, I am the wielder of Gunas and I am the Gunas themselves; and without me, who am the Atman of all, there is nothing separate existing.

“ na hi tasya vikalpakhya……sampadyate maya “ ( BP 11.18.37)

There is no longer any perception of difference in him; whatever there was is uprooted by realization that God is the self of all. What does appear in him at times while begging for food and taking meals etc even now as a recurrence of what has already been set aside will constitute my force of destiny till his death where after he will bet United with Me.


What is jiva ?

“dehendriya pranamayo…..adhavati kalatantrah “ (BP 11.28.16)


The spirit hidden behind the body, the senses, the vital airs and the mind and identifying itself with them is called the Jeeva. The subtle body constituted of the Gunas and karmas is its material manifestation and is variously known as the Sootrama or the Mahat-Tattwa and controlled by God in the form of the Time-spirit) it revolves in Sansara. (World)

“satwam rajastam……tayoho param yat “(BP 11.3.37)


That which was one before creation became known as Pradhana (or Prakriti) of triple nature, consisting of Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Then by its active power it became as the Sutratma and by its power of understanding it became known as Mahat Principle. Again as a condition investing the Jeeva or individual soul, it became known as Ahankara (the ego). The incomprehensible Brahman alone shines as deities presiding over the senses and their objects and the pain pleasure experience. The effect and the cause – are all Brahman only, because it is cause of both.

Method of worship of Krishna

“bhayam dvitiyabhinivishetah……gurudevatatma “ (BP 11.2.37)


One who has turned away from the Lord loses the memory of his real self, due to His Maya, and falls prey to the mistaken belief that he is the body. He is then seized by the fear caused by duality, which is the identification with “other” thing than the self. Therefore, the wise should worship God by only the devotion believing that he himself as Atman, his Guru and the God are one!

Who is bhagavata (devotee ) :

“sarvabhuteshu yah…….bhagavatotamah “ (BP 11.2.45)


Hari said – “ One who sees God in all the beings and all the beings in God as well as within himself is the best Bhagawata. (devotee of Bhagwan)”

Who is ishwara ?

“daridro yastvasantushtah……viparyah “ (BP 11.19.44)


He who is not satisfied is the Poor, he who has no control over his urges is called the unfortunate miser, He who is not attached to Gunas is “God” and the attachment to Gunas is the downward journey of the soul.

There is nothing other than atma (soul) :


"na tatratma swayamjyotiryo...dhruvoanantopamastatah" (BP 12.5.8)

{ But just as because of disappearance of flame of lamp ,tatwa of agni is not destroyed,in the same way self luminous soul is not destroyed.Because that soul is beyond karya-karana,manifestation and unmanifestation,he is support of all things like sky ,soul is ever existing,omnipresent and ananta(endless).Really example of atma is atma only.}

“atmyaiva tadidam vishwam srujyate……nirmula bhatiratmani “ (BP 11.28-6,7)


The Lord, the Atman is Himself what is created as the Universe and the creator as the Atman only, one with it, by whom it is coming into existence. He protects it, it is protected by Him as Vishwatma, the All-pervading God, and He also sums up and withdraws it in Himself. Therefore there is nothing else but Atman, described to be Reality. All these things coming, existing or ending – the three states only falsely appear on the true base of Atman.


Path of duality is the support of sorrow / differences are illusions .

“yavadasyasvatantratvam tavadishwarato……shucharpitaha “ (BP 11.10.33)


While the Jeeva is not dependent and free, there is fear of God, and those who follow the path of duality become greatly disturbed, given to sorrow.

Differences or dualities are not real in any case. ( about bramhan and atma)

“kim bhadram kimabhadram…..manasa dhyatameva cha “ (BP 11.28.4)


What is good and what is bad in that duality which itself is not Real? What is spoken or thought or imagined by the mind is equally false.

Muliplicity of jiva and inequality of gunas –leads to sorrow

“yavatsyat gunavaishamyam…….tadaiva hi “ (BP 11.10.32)


As long as there is dependency ,there is fear of god.Those who get entangled in ‘I’ ,those who considers multiplicity and dependency of soul and those who don’t follow detachment , they get only sorrow .


Hari Narayana

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest subash

Dear friend,


Jai Sriman Narayana.


I am from a Smarta family, who have traditionally followed Advaitam taught by Bhagavatpada Adi Shankarachariar. But I beg to disagree with Your conclusion regarding the essential purport of Bhagavatam.


I have analyzed Bhagavatam quite a bit, and also been guided by devotees, and I have concluded that the true purport of the Bhagavatam is most close to Vishishtadvaitam than any other Darshanam. Brahma Jnanis like Shuka Brahmam, Kumaras, Jada Bharatar all conclude that Sriman Narayana alone is the absolute truth. The Purana is said to have been composed by Veda Vyasar in a trance after receiving it from Narada. The Purana as it's name suggest is primarily about Bhagavan Sriman Narayana who is the absolute truth, His glories, and His devotee's glories. On the strength of Bhagavatam alone, without even referring to other scripture like Shruti, Srimad Bhagavad Gita, one can say without an iota of doubt that:

1. Sriman Narayana is the absolute truth beyond which there is nothing.

2. He has infinite auspicious attributes like rulership, strength, compassion etc, all of which are spiritual in nature (above the 3 Gunas). Jiva is just cidananda tattvam with none of these auspicious attributes, which thus distinguish Jiva and Ishvara clearly.

3. His form and glories are of chidananda tattvam which has no trace of 3 Gunas.


There is a minority of monistic verses You have quoted to reach Your conclusion without referring to the overwhelming majority of verses on Bhakti and glory of Sriman Narayana. I don't want to get into an argument, because arguments are in general undesirable, but if You wish to receive quotations of such verses, you can get in touch with me on the email id partandparcel.spark@gmail.com, and I will be happy tp present to You those overwhelming majority of Bhagavatm verses that teach Parama Bhakti, and presents Sriman Narayana (or His Avataram Bhagavan Shri Krishna) as the absolute truth.


The small percent of monistic verses (in my opinion) are primarily to show that the impersonal Brahman/individual self (as understood by Bhagavad Shri Ramanujachariar) has it's source in the personality of Bhagavan Sriman Narayana alone, and in a sense non-different from it, and to attract those who have leaning towards monism to Bhakti.


The ultimate truth is stated in Bhagavatam itself in so many words. I just quote three of the famous verses.




narayana-para veda

deva narayanangajah

narayana-para loka

narayana-para makhah


narayana -- the Supreme Lord; parah -- is the cause and is meant for; vedah -- knowledge; devah -- the demigods; narayana -- the Supreme Lord; anga-jah -- assisting hands; narayana -- the personality of Godhead; parah -- for the sake of; lokah -- the planets; narayana -- the Supreme Lord; parah -- just to please Him; makhah -- all sacrifices.


narayana-paro yogo

narayana-param tapah

narayana-param jnanam

narayana-para gatih


narayana-parah -- just to know Narayana; yogah -- concentration of mind; narayana-param -- just with an aim to achieve Narayana; tapah -- austerity; narayana-param -- just to realize a glimpse of Narayana; jnanam -- culture of transcendental knowledge; narayana-para -- the path of salvation ends by entering the kingdom of Narayana; gatih -- progressive path.




vasudeva-para veda

vasudeva-para makhah

vasudeva-para yoga

vasudeva-parah kriyah

vasudeva-param jnanam

vasudeva-param tapah

vasudeva-paro dharmo

vasudeva-para gatih


vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- the ultimate goal; vedah -- revealed scriptures; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- for worshiping; makhah -- sacrifices; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- the means of attaining; yogah -- mystic paraphernalia; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- under His control; kriyah -- fruitive activities; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; param -- the supreme; jnanam -- knowledge; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; param -- best; tapah -- austerity; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- superior quality; dharmah -- religion; vasudeva -- the Personality of Godhead; parah -- ultimate; gatih -- goal of life.


Kindly forgive my apacharams. I don't want to get into a debate on which Achariar or philosophy is greater, because all Achariars had in their interest the propagation of Sanatana Dharma alone. My response is only to demonstrate that You have based your conclusion on a minority of verses, and not the majority.


your servant,


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have just ignored all things what bhagavata says about atma and bramhan.


Besides You have so much ignorance about advaita. Bhagawata Purana many times say that Krishna is Nirakara, Arupa, NirguNa. This is where your small intellect fails. When bhagavata purana praises krishna as Brahman, it is for his real nature which is Arupa and nirguna, infinite nature. Moreover bhagavata purana supports also lord shiva as Brahman or supreme God. Read bhagavata purana 8.7. So bramhan is really a form, why bhagavata purana says both krishna and shiva as bramhan..


And another thing bhakti is not opposed to Advaita. It is ladder through which jiva realises himself as a bramhan.


My thread is entirely based on final teachings of Shuka deva, which is essence of vedanta. I don't have interest in distorted translations of Iskcon.


Shuka declared that jiva becomes bramhan. In fact, further he said that jiva was already bramhan. He further says how to meditate. One should see himself as supreme bramhan, Supreme abode of all, non-different from bramhan.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest subash

Dear friend

In the above bhagavata statement starting with Narayana para veda .....

1 Narayana is a proper noun. It says devatas are limbs of Narayana. So the argument that Narayana refers to Nirguna brahman doesnt't hold logical vaidity since for Nirguna Narayana to have limbs would be impossible.

2 Please read Shri Ramanujars Gita Bhashya. He also says Jiva is Brahman but brahman refers to individual soul. And Parikshit Maharajas Moksha is a classical example of Vishishtadvaita Moksha where Dharma bhuta jana expands to infinity. So the analogy of sky and pot is not just explained in Advaita. It is explained by Vishistadvaita as well beautifully. Remember no acharya Shankara or Ramanuja says Jiva gets all superexcellent qualities like Shriman Narayana in liberation. So Advaita and Vishishtadvaita are in agreement here. But Advaita says Shriman Narayana's personality rulership qualities are Ajnana kalpita which is against many Pramana in scripture and also makes Advaita semitheistic and not purely theistic. You can get this statement confirmed from any Advaita Vidvaan.


Regarding Lord Vishnu versus Shiva I do not want to debate because it may lead to Apacharams. So instead lets focus on philosophy.


Warm regards


Sarvam Shri Krishnarpanamastu

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest subash

Dear friend


It doesn't mean followers of Advaita do not have Bhakti but Advaita teaches Brahma Satya Jagat Mithya. But the complete statement is Brahma Satya Jagat Mithya Ishvara Mithya. You can get confirmation from any Vidvaan that Ishvara (ruler/ king of all) is Mithya in Advaita. That is why it cannot be considered a purely theistic philosophy. On the other hand Bhagavata teaches Krishna is Satyasya Satyam i.e. baby Krishna. Now some Advaitins may say Mithya does not mean totally false, it means it is relatively real.But Bhaktas in Advaita tradition need to be very careful because their Bhakti is on a Mithya vastu valled Ishvara( in other words a creation of Maya) as per their philosophy and thus lying on a weak foundation. That the Ishvara (ruler of the universe) is Satyam i.e. the Highest truth and not Mithya has numerous Pramana in Shruti and Smriti Shastram which Advaitins ignore or explain away saying it indirectly refers to the Nirguna Atma of Ishvara. I can assure you this indirect interpretation of scripture is not conducive to Astikyam i.e. theism.


Warm regards.


Sarvam Shri Krishnarpanamastu

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Create New...