Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least being in a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in The Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood surrounding many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by religious mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity and be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are being hugged by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion. Lie #1) " Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more intelligent and wiser than you. " The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business, politics, and lust for power. In many cases. The more disciples a guru attracts, the more power and income they can generate. Teachers often say " stick with one guru " (themselves) because when a guru loses a disciple he loses a potential source of power and income. Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is without ego. Lie #3) " Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal standards of good behavior. " Judge them by the same standards you would anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Dear Chris, **Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is without ego.** I thought that there is no " I " for fully enlightened beings . Ramana Maharishi taught the enquiry method and he said that " I " disappears forever . Are you talking about the real " I " here ? .. I read that the false " I " disappears for enlightened beings. Peace, Kousik. , " chrism " <> wrote: > > > Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being > reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least being > in a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in The > Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood surrounding > many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a > dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their > followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by religious > mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity > and be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are being > hugged by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion. > > Lie #1) " Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more > intelligent and wiser than you. " > > The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business, > politics, and lust for power. In many cases. The more disciples a > guru attracts, the more power and income they can generate. > > Teachers often say " stick with one guru " (themselves) because when a > guru loses a disciple he loses a potential source of power and > income. > > Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " > > Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is > without ego. > > Lie #3) " Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high > level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal > standards of good behavior. " Judge them by the same standards you > would anyone else. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Ego does not disappear it is raised and transformed. Ego is in all of us as beings. The control of the ego, the small self, is what is no longer expressed. The desires of the ego, the agenda of the ego. This is what is changed. The ego is a part of the self. The expression of God that is who we are. It is in most people the aspect of us that rules our thoughts and expresses itself into our ability to survive. The enlightenment is about the ascension of the ego self into that of a higher self. In this way it disappears and is yet still present in its ascended existence - blessings Koushik - chrism Kousik <r_koushik2003 wrote: Dear Chris, **Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is without ego.** I thought that there is no " I " for fully enlightened beings . Ramana Maharishi taught the enquiry method and he said that " I " disappears forever . Are you talking about the real " I " here ? .. I read that the false " I " disappears for enlightened beings. Peace, Kousik. , " chrism " <> wrote: > > > Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being > reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least being > in a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in The > Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood surrounding > many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a > dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their > followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by religious > mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity > and be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are being > hugged by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion. > > Lie #1) " Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more > intelligent and wiser than you. " > > The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business, > politics, and lust for power. In many cases. The more disciples a > guru attracts, the more power and income they can generate. > > Teachers often say " stick with one guru " (themselves) because when a > guru loses a disciple he loses a potential source of power and > income. > > Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " > > Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is > without ego. > > Lie #3) " Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high > level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal > standards of good behavior. " Judge them by the same standards you > would anyone else. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 chrism, I always liked Glenn Morris' notion on this subject. as he told me, the discovery or uncovering of the " natural self " is the primary goal of the 'lesser' martial arts - and internal transformation has little significance [as a concept or an activity] before that point is reached. the 'natural self' concept is similar to but not identical with, the Rinzai zen notion of 'original mind' or 'beginner's mind'. it's often encountered first in a flash of satori, within that tradition. another thing to stress - put plainly, without the ego, we die, i.e. you lose the will to live and become bent on a self-destructive, suicidal, then self-annihilative course. mystics tend to get caught up here, in attempting to reconcile the rift between the achieved 'god-consciousness' of the natural self, and the ordinary consciousness of the animal-human. paradoxically (in the sense that it seems to contradict the previous statement) no part of this descent or struggle can be avoided. hopefully that was useful to somebody. -brian , chrism <> wrote: > > Ego does not disappear it is raised and transformed. Ego is in all of us as beings. The control of the ego, the small self, is what is no longer expressed. The desires of the ego, the agenda of the ego. This is what is changed. The ego is a part of the self. The expression of God that is who we are. It is in most people the aspect of us that rules our thoughts and expresses itself into our ability to survive. The enlightenment is about the ascension of the ego self into that of a higher self. In this way it disappears and is yet still present in its ascended existence - blessings Koushik - chrism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Hello Brian, Yes Glenn Morris and I have continued the connection. He still has much to offer those who wish it. From a martial arts POV I can see this as having relevance in that in many schools such as Tai Kwon Do there are teachings that will promote this discovery. However with a Kundalini awakening outside of these schools of thought other avenues can be given. I am not one to advocate the demise of the ego. I never have agreed with that format and I do still feel it is a translation error of the Eastern teachings. You know from Sanskrit to english. I am more directed towards the education of the ego in a more " Huna " format. Allowing this " little person " within to grow into the middle self or as in Huna the " Uhane' ' " , and then on to a High Self or " Aumakua. " For me this is where we can co-ehist and co-evolve with all parts intact. Thank you Brian its is a pleasure to read your thoughts and please continue to post them - Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Greetings Everyone, I would like to offer another view of in relation to what " Mystics " mean after reading A_Seventh_Son's mention of, " I always liked Glenn Morris' notion on this subject. as he told me, the discovery or uncovering of the " natural self " . There is a great depth at which " Mystics " (as apposed to " Phony Mystics " ) can be expanded on but here are a few ideas to share. What is a Mystic? " Spiritual unfoldment leads us along the path into the illumined knowing of where we are in consciousness at any point in time. There are many methods through which this may be accomplished. Carefully choose one path and then stay with it with extreme loyalty. For this, a preceptor is needed, a spiritual guide, to answer questions, to raise questions for you to find answers to within your meditations. It is an arduous journey. The rewards come only near its end... " " Try to live life as though you are walking in the rain without getting wet, or carefully writing on water. No ripples, no disturbance, no reactionary residue that has to be faced at some future date... " " The mystic walks in the opposite direction. He goes against the crowd. He learns to swim upstream. It is a little more difficult for him, but oh so worth it. The seeker has to learn that the conscious mind is only a vast dream created by many, many people who are dreaming openly. They are dreaming, and every mystic knows it. They are forming the dream by what they say, by their emotions, by what they think and by that in which they involve themselves. The mystic knows there is no enduring reality to the vast dream made up by people themselves, by their desires, their relationships, their cravings and their insecurities. " The Master Course of Himalayan Academy by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami http://www.gurudeva.org/lesson.shtml --- Mystics Among Us Mysticism is a natural state of being. All babies are mystics. Babies instinctively know they are the center of the universe. They expect all their needs to be met. They understand, " Ask and ye shall receive. " Just watch mom jump and leap every time baby cries. Child- development specialists tell us an infant distinguish between where baby stops and the world begins. Babies have not learned the concept of separation. They know the whole world is just another part of themselves. Babies are not handicapped by words like " God " to which we have added connotations. Babies have not yet been contaminated by the race-mind. Babies function on a total feeling level. Every religion, in one way or another, asks us to become as a child. So mysticism is not only our origin, but also the goal. Most people realize that we express life in stages, from childhood, to adolescence, to adulthood. But many are not aware that there is a fourth stage to be achieved: the independent, all-seeing,all-knowing child. The people who achieve this level are often called mystics. Sometimes they are deified, because we do not understand that we can achieve the same level of enlightenment. But if you read the teachings of the mystics, we are promised that we too can do all that they have done. We all achieve mysticism in this lifetime, however, some of us are so attached to the body, that we must lay the body down to achieve mysticism. Compare the near-death experience to birth; pushing through the tunnel, moving towards the light. We move from one mystical experience to the next. The time inbetween is spent remembering who we really are. from http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9256/mystic.html Love and Light, StarStuffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 if you study something intently and for long enough, much of it becomes " second nature " - what began as an artificial contrivance has become a natural state. the nature of this spontaneity and freedom is quite different than unconsciousness. this, rather than a " return to nature " is what a martial artist, for example, would experience. what was once artificial then *becomes* natural, but is functioning on a higher level of consciousness (the realized mystic) that we confuse with unconscious instinct (the mewling, defecating infant) because it shares the qualities of effortlessness and spontaneity that we associate with instinctual or emotional behavior. many would also disagree with the notion that " we " achieve " mysticism " automatically by physical dying. in my opinion, these are 'easy' answers cruelly designed to mislead, or at best mimicry of mystic sentiment but without understanding. -brian > Mystics Among Us > > Mysticism is a natural state of being. > All babies are mystics. > > Babies instinctively know they are the center of the universe. They > expect all their needs to be met. They understand, " Ask and ye shall > receive. " Just watch mom jump and leap every time baby cries. Child- > development specialists tell us an infant distinguish between where > baby stops and the world begins. Babies have not learned the concept > of separation. They know the whole world is just another part of > themselves. Babies are not handicapped by words like " God " to which > we have added connotations. Babies have not yet been contaminated by > the race-mind. Babies function on a total feeling level. > > > Every religion, in one way or another, asks us to become as a child. > So mysticism is not only our origin, but also the goal. Most people > realize that we express life in stages, from childhood, to > adolescence, to adulthood. But many are not aware that there is a > fourth stage to be achieved: the independent, all-seeing,all-knowing > child. > > The people who achieve this level are often called mystics. > Sometimes they are deified, because we do not understand that we can > achieve the same level of enlightenment. But if you read the > teachings of the mystics, we are promised that we too can do all that > they have done. > > We all achieve mysticism in this lifetime, however, some of us are so > attached to the body, that we must lay the body down to achieve > mysticism. Compare the near-death experience to birth; pushing > through the tunnel, moving towards the light. > We move from one mystical experience to the next. > The time inbetween is spent remembering who we really are. > > from http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9256/mystic.html > > > > > Love and Light, > StarStuffs > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 > I am not one to advocate the demise of the ego. > I never have agreed with that format and I do still feel it is > a translation error of the Eastern teachings. You know from > Sanskrit to english. I'm sure it is a translation problem. What the East means by the Western word 'unconscious' is almost the exact opposite of how we think of 'unconscious' in the West. they sense an 'all-pervading field' and intuit a conscious ego; we sense a conscious ego and intuit an 'all-pervading field'. so naturally we get things backwards when interpreting even exoteric works. this is part of why I think it's dangerous to adopt Eastern teachings at face value. there are Western methods of approach more suited to our prejudices and orientations - oh, I mean " unique view of reality " . but there is one constant feature or mechanism of course, that does unify them in another sense. > I am more directed towards the education of > the ego in a more " Huna " format. Allowing this " little person " > within to grow into the middle self or as in Huna the " Uhane' ' " , > and then on to a High Self or " Aumakua. " For me this is where we > can co-ehist and co-evolve with all parts intact. I agree. it's interesting that the old alchemistic Philosophers were fascinated by both the ascent of matter and the descent of spirit. the dual nature of the Stone was (we are told) the whole secret of their magistery. unfortunately in the passage of time the two paths were separated, and knowledge was lost, leaving an irredeemable void in its place. > Thank you Brian its is a pleasure to read your thoughts and > please continue to post them - likewise! and thank you for your kind words. -brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Dear Chris, Oh yes ..that's what i meant ..Of course when disciples ask questions to the enlightened guru ..he uses his " I " and then only reacts his intellect . They are always connected to the source though ..Thoughts never come from the subconscious ..and their mind is the perfect tool for them ..they use it when they wish . I misunderstood what you said it seems lol ...i thought you said enlightened beings live with ego ..just like the normal people. Peace, Kousik. , chrism <> wrote: > > Ego does not disappear it is raised and transformed. Ego is in all of us as beings. The control of the ego, the small self, is what is no longer expressed. The desires of the ego, the agenda of the ego. This is what is changed. The ego is a part of the self. The expression of God that is who we are. It is in most people the aspect of us that rules our thoughts and expresses itself into our ability to survive. The enlightenment is about the ascension of the ego self into that of a higher self. In this way it disappears and is yet still present in its ascended existence - blessings Koushik - chrism > > > > Kousik <r_koushik2003 wrote: > Dear Chris, > > **Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " > > Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is > without ego.** > > I thought that there is no " I " for fully enlightened beings . Ramana > Maharishi taught the enquiry method and he said that " I " disappears > forever . Are you talking about the real " I " here ? .. I read that > the false " I " disappears for enlightened beings. > > Peace, > Kousik. > > , " chrism " > <@> wrote: > > > > > > Modern day gurus often try to market themselves as being > > reincarnations of ancient religious super-heroes, or at least > being > > in a direct lineage of some infallible ancient knowledge. As in > The > > Wizard of Oz, if you pull away the curtain of falsehood > surrounding > > many gurus you will find an ordinary human being trying to make a > > dishonest living off the sincere spiritual aspirations of their > > followers. Below are some of the common big lies told by > religious > > mystics to watch out for. Hold on to your wallet and your sanity > > and be aware that it is easiest to pick your pocket as you are > being > > hugged by a guru selling cosmic love and compassion. > > > > Lie #1) " Surrender to me because I am enlightened and thus more > > intelligent and wiser than you. " > > > > The world of gurus and religion is a world of big business, > > politics, and lust for power. In many cases. The more disciples a > > guru attracts, the more power and income they can generate. > > > > Teachers often say " stick with one guru " (themselves) because when > a > > guru loses a disciple he loses a potential source of power and > > income. > > > > Lie #2) " I am enlightened and I have no ego. " > > > > Some humans do become 'enlightened,' but no living human being is > > without ego. > > > > Lie #3) " Do not judge the great masters. They are on such a high > > level of consciousness that they cannot be measured by normal > > standards of good behavior. " Judge them by the same standards you > > would anyone else. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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