THANKS

[Guest guest]

THANKS FOR THE FREE ENGLISH LESSON (s)!

 

>EBbrewpunx > > >RE: Re: I agree but >Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:34:54 -0400 > >folks from another group >don't sweat it bea. > > >"B. B." wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and who is Mc Big or Edith ?????(sorry for my ignorance) gt;"Lesley Dove" gt; gt; gt;RE: Re: I agree but gt;Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:52:26 +0100 gt; gt; gt;Yeah right next time I'll just let someone kill me... gt; gt;Lesley NOT Leslie (you're not MrBig or Edith under an alias are you?) gt; gt; gt; B. B. [ibyza2001] gt; 20 August 2002 13:32 gt; gt; RE: Re: I agree but gt; gt; gt; As a non violent a vegan should be, Leslie; violence is never the issue, gt;violence is never the answer NO MATTER WHO STARTED WHAT, THAT IS THE TRUE gt;VEGAN ESSENCE, peace gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;"Lesley Dove" gt; gt; gt; gt;gt; gt;RE: Re: I agree but gt; gt;Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:22:42 +0100 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;I've never punched a smoker for smoking, but I was punched for simply gt; gt;complaining about it, how can I be the one who is way over the top? gt; gt;It was hardly reasonable that I was punched, I don't think they needed gt;much gt; gt;provocation, in fact the woman who punched me was not the one I had gt;argued gt; gt;with, it was a man who got her to hit me, he was the one I complained to gt;for gt; gt;smoking. They are the people who need some anger management not me Cathy, gt; gt;can you not see that? What they did was over the top. gt; gt;It won't happen again if I learn some self-defence because I will be able gt;to gt; gt;fight back before the first punch hits me, asthma attakcs permitting of gt; gt;course. gt; gt; gt; gt;Lesley gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; cathyjupp [cj] gt; gt; 20 August 2002 11:23 gt; gt; gt; gt; Re: I agree but gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Lesley - I'm serious here - go to your doctor and ask for counselling gt; gt; or some other form of anger management assistance. You are in gt; gt; serious danger of harming yourself (or someone else). You have gt; gt; already been punched in the face once and I can see it happening gt; gt; again, or worse, if you don't do something to manage your attitude. gt; gt; It is well over the top. You see yourself as taking reasonable steps gt; gt; to protect yourself, but I think your attitude has gone *way* past gt; gt; that. gt; gt; gt; gt; Cathy gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; , "Lesley Dove" wrote: gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I'm getting almost past the stage of being peaceful with smokers, gt; gt; I'm even gt; gt; gt; considering getting a pepper/tear gas spray and to hell with the gt; gt; fact that gt; gt; gt; it is illegal in the UK (we have very little right to protect gt; gt; ourselves gt; gt; gt; effectively from violent antisocial freaks in this country), to gt; gt; spray on gt; gt; gt; smokers when they make me ill and are refusing to stub it out. If gt; gt; they are gt; gt; gt; unreasonable, it's just a matter of self-defence, not attack as I gt; gt; see it gt; gt; gt; since they are hurting me. They need to know the pain they are gt; gt; causing and gt; gt; gt; maybe mace would just give them some idea of how second hand smoke gt; gt; gt; inhalation feels to a sensitive person. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I am considering a violent solution to the assault on my lungs in gt; gt; future gt; gt; gt; because I was punched in the face for complaining about a smoker gt; gt; the other gt; gt; gt; day so no more Mrs Peaceful Dove after the way I have suffered. I gt; gt; wouldn't gt; gt; gt; carry a gun or a knife though, that would be taking it too far! I gt; gt; had a bad gt; gt; gt; headache and blurred vision from being punched and had a bruised gt; gt; eyebrow and gt; gt; gt; forehead. I was feeling so ill for days because the smoke had gt; gt; already caused gt; gt; gt; me breathing trouble when I complained so I was wheezy for ages. My gt; gt; attacker gt; gt; gt; has not been caught, the police are pretty hopeless. I will of gt; gt; course press gt; gt; gt; charges if she is caught. Considering the circumstances that I was gt; gt; sitting gt; gt; gt; down struggling to breathe when I was punched it was a particularly gt; gt; cowardly gt; gt; gt; and callous attack. It was obvious to this woman that I was not in a gt; gt; gt; position to fight back. I ended up behaving badly on the other gt; gt; vegan gt; gt; gt; group just very soon after the attack and I think I was in a gt; gt; slightly gt; gt; gt; confused state at the time, so that the balance of my mind was gt; gt; disturbed, gt; gt; gt; but I still got banned from the group. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Tobacco is not really an addiction, I don't believe in it as an gt; gt; addiction gt; gt; gt; anyway. I think smokers just say that as an excuse, but it's all in gt; gt; their gt; gt; gt; minds and it's just a habit that people choose to do because some gt; gt; people gt; gt; gt; like to annoy other people, that is why youngsters start usually, gt; gt; to rebel gt; gt; gt; and annoy someone, that is the true nature of the smoker. My dad gt; gt; and my gran gt; gt; gt; had no problem quitting when I was young, and there were no gt; gt; nicotine chewing gt; gt; gt; gums or patches then (people are spoilt these days!), they just gt; gt; quit on gt; gt; gt; their own because they realised it was a deadly habit. I was proud gt; gt; of them gt; gt; gt; both. Nowadays smokers whinge about how hard it is to quit, I'm gt; gt; sick of gt; gt; gt; that, they don't know how lucky they are to get so much help on the gt; gt; health gt; gt; gt; service, and to get their self-inflicted illnesses treated. I also gt; gt; don't gt; gt; gt; think people like George Best and Larry Hagman (alcohol abusers) gt; gt; deserve new gt; gt; gt; livers, if they don't care about their own that they are born with, gt; gt; and gt; gt; gt; drink as much as thery did they should be low priority for gt; gt; transplants, I gt; gt; gt; think, after children and people who could not have prevented their gt; gt; illness. gt; gt; gt; The innocent victims should be helped more, the woman who hit me gt; gt; had most gt; gt; gt; likely been drinking anyway, so much mindless violence is alcohol gt; gt; related, gt; gt; gt; that has innocent victims too. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I'm sorry that dairy made you ill, I'm glad it didn't affect me at gt; gt; all that gt; gt; gt; way since I was already suffering from the smoke, but I guess we gt; gt; all have gt; gt; gt; our own unique set of sensitivities and allergies. I can eat gt; gt; anything which gt; gt; gt; most people class as food without any trouble, even as a meat-eater gt; gt; I never gt; gt; gt; had constipation or any food allergies. I just choose veganism on gt; gt; ethical gt; gt; gt; grounds. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I think a food allergy would be easier to manage than a tobacco gt; gt; smoke gt; gt; gt; allergy because many people think I am faking it. That is hard to gt; gt; handle. gt; gt; gt; I've heard of someone else whose doctor said he was more likely gt; gt; allergic to gt; gt; gt; cats or mold, when he complained that tobacco smoke affected him gt; gt; badly, I gt; gt; gt; don't know why doctors should be so sceptical about this problem gt; gt; and try to gt; gt; gt; blame other things. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I even got accused behind my back of being "unsociable" in one gt; gt; animal rights gt; gt; gt; group because I would not go in the smoky pub after protests with gt; gt; them, how gt; gt; gt; unfair is that? They knew I couldn't bear being around smoke, and gt; gt; were not gt; gt; gt; very understanding of my sensitivity. gt; gt; gt; It's very inconsistent that they were against making animals smoke gt; gt; in lab gt; gt; gt; experimenrts but wanted me to be forced to breathe in secondary gt; gt; smoke as a gt; gt; gt; prerequisite to being a fully accepted one of their crowd. I guess gt; gt; social gt; gt; gt; coercion to accept something damaging and unhealthy is OK with some gt; gt; AR gt; gt; gt; people, because it's not actual force. I don't see it as the right gt; gt; way to gt; gt; gt; treat one of your supposed friends. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Lesley gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; B. B. [ibyza2001@h...] gt; gt; gt; 19 August 2002 18:35 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I agree but gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; I agree fully that we can not go to a demo. and smoke, true! gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; But many of us have been sick on dairy, egg and milk (I had no gt; gt; smokers gt; gt; gt; around luckily in that remote place I lived in in that times) gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; This can be fully demonstrated too, so first danger tabacoo OK gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 2nd meet gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 3rd dairyamp;eggs gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; But I guess it depends on individuals' reaction and on beeing gt; gt; coherent, gt; gt; gt; LET'S EVOLUTE amp; PUT A PECEFUL END TO SMOKE ADDICTION gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;"Lesley Dove" gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;gt; gt; gt; gt;RE: Re: milk sucksssssssss gt; gt; gt; gt;Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:26:19 +0100 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;Is it worth AR people smoking though if the smokers on demos and gt; gt; marches gt; gt; gt; put gt; gt; gt; gt;people who are sensitive like me off going? It makes me so ill, gt; gt; that I am gt; gt; gt; gt;considering not going on a march again if I have to be gt; gt; surrounded by gt; gt; gt; gt;cigarette smoke, I felt very sick on the demo in London and gt; gt; after outside gt; gt; gt; gt;the pub, some of it might have been the car fumes in London but gt; gt; gt; experience gt; gt; gt; gt;has taught me that tobacco smoke affects me worse! I'm nmo use gt; gt; to anyone gt; gt; gt; gt;I believe demos and protests for the animals should be strictly gt; gt; gt; non-smoking gt; gt; gt; gt;affairs, it creates a very bad impression on the public to have gt; gt; people gt; gt; gt; gt;smoking. We have to present a nice clean living image. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;Dairy cows have no reason to feel let down by me, I am an gt; gt; ethical vegan gt; gt; gt; and gt; gt; gt; gt;will always promote veganism on animal rights grounds but I will gt; gt; not make gt; gt; gt; gt;what I believe to be false claims about giving up dairy leading gt; gt; to gt; gt; gt; improved gt; gt; gt; gt;health and less mucus for instance, because in my experience it gt; gt; made no gt; gt; gt; gt;difference to my health except mentally to my conscience and gt; gt; peace of gt; gt; gt; mind. gt; gt; gt; gt;My mucus and chest and head problems remained until I was able gt; gt; to live gt; gt; gt; away gt; gt; gt; gt;from second hand smoke. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;Lesley gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; cathyjupp [cj@r...] gt; gt; gt; gt; 19 August 2002 13:29 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Re: milk sucksssssssss gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; BUT I will gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; speak out when I see the vegan movement undermining anti- gt; gt; tobacco gt; gt; gt; gt; campaigning gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; by overstating the role of dairy in cancers. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; That would be overstating IN YOUR OPINION, would it? I'm sure gt; gt; that gt; gt; gt; gt; dairy cows everywhere would like to thank you. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Their veganism will not protect them gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; from the harm they are doing to themselves. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; The only vegans I know personally aren't vegan for their gt; gt; health, but gt; gt; gt; gt; for the animals' (I know a lot of Americals are, and some gt; gt; British of gt; gt; gt; gt; course - I just haven't met any personally). I don't think that gt; gt; gt; gt; anyone would reasonably argue that smoking was not bad for gt; gt; them - but gt; gt; gt; gt; some people think it worth it. Veganism has little or nothing gt; gt; to do gt; gt; gt; gt; with it. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Is this going to turn into another anti-smoking forum? Shall I gt; gt; leave gt; gt; gt; gt; now? gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Cathy gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; ps Hallo everyone who knows me from before. Been lurking for a gt; gt; gt; gt; while to see how everyone is and what's going on here - never gt; gt; gt; gt; intended to post because I spend far too much time at the lists gt; gt; when gt; gt; gt; gt; I get going, but you know how it is sometimes........ gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; ibizkus [ibyza2001@h...] gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 19 August 2002 11:43 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; milk sucksssssssss gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Got... Breast Cancer? Prostate Cancer? Crohn's Disease? Heart gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Disease Sick Kids? Osteoporosis Fat? Veal? Fat? Zits? Gas? gt; gt; Mucus? gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Beer? gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Click here for the truth about dairy products and strong gt; gt; bones. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; MILK SUCKS... gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; FOR THE ANIMALS: gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Corporate-owned factories where cows are warehoused in huge gt; gt; sheds gt; gt; gt; gt; and gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; treated like milk machines have replaced most small family gt; gt; farms. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; With genetic manipulation and intensive production gt; gt; technologies, gt; gt; gt; gt; it gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; is common for modern dairy cows to produce 100 pounds of milk gt; gt; a gt; gt; gt; gt; day— gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 10 times more than they would produce in nature. To keep milk gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; production as high as possible, farmers artificially gt; gt; inseminate gt; gt; gt; gt; cows gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; every year. Growth hormones and unnatural milking schedules gt; gt; cause gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; dairy cows' udders to become painful and so heavy that they gt; gt; gt; gt; sometimes gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; drag on the ground, resulting in frequent infections and gt; gt; overuse gt; gt; gt; gt; of gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; antibiotics. Cows -- like all mammals -- make milk to feed gt; gt; their gt; gt; gt; gt; own gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; babies -- not humans. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Male calves, the "byproducts" of the dairy industry, endure 14 gt; gt; gt; gt; to17 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; weeks of torment in veal crates so small that they can't even gt; gt; turn gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; around. Female calves often replace their old, worn-out gt; gt; mothers, gt; gt; gt; gt; or gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; are slaughtered soon after birth for the rennet in their gt; gt; stomachs gt; gt; gt; gt; (an gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; ingredient of most commercial cheeses). They are often kept in gt; gt; gt; gt; tiny gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; crates or tethered in stalls for the first few months of their gt; gt; gt; gt; lives, gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; only to grow up to become "milk machines" like their mothers. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; FOR THE ENVIRONMENT: gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Cow's milk is an inefficient food source. Cows, like humans, gt; gt; gt; gt; expend gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; the majority of their food intake simply leading their lives. gt; gt; It gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; takes a great deal of grain and other foodstuffs cycled gt; gt; through gt; gt; gt; gt; cows gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; to produce a small amount of milk. And not only is milk a gt; gt; waste of gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; energy and water, the production of milk is also a disastrous gt; gt; gt; gt; source gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; of water pollution. A dairy cow produces 120 pounds of waste gt; gt; every gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; day -- equal to that of two dozen people, but with no toilets, gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; sewers, or treatment plants. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; In Lancaster County, Pa., manure from dairy cows is gt; gt; destroying the gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Chesapeake Bay, and in California, which produces one-fifth gt; gt; of the gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; country's total supply of milk, the manure from dairy farms gt; gt; has gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; poisoned vast expanses of underground water, rivers, and gt; gt; streams. gt; gt; gt; gt; In gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; the Central Valley of California, the cows produce as much gt; gt; gt; gt; excrement gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; as a city of 21 million people, and even a smallish farm of gt; gt; 200 gt; gt; gt; gt; cows gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; will produce as much nitrogen as in the sewage from a gt; gt; community of gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 5,000 to 10,000 people, according to a U.S. Senate report on gt; gt; gt; gt; animal gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; waste. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; FOR YOUR HEALTH: gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Dairy products are a health hazard. They contain no fiber or gt; gt; gt; gt; complex gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; carbohydrates and are laden with saturated fat and gt; gt; cholesterol. gt; gt; gt; gt; They gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; are contaminated with cow's blood and pus and are frequently gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; contaminated with pesticides, hormones, and antibiotics. Dairy gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; products are linked to allergies, constipation, obesity, heart gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; disease, cancer, and other diseases. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; The late Dr. Benjamin Spock, America's leading authority on gt; gt; child gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; care, spoke out against feeding cow's milk to children, gt; gt; saying it gt; gt; gt; gt; can gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; cause anemia, allergies, and insulin-dependent diabetes and gt; gt; in the gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; long term, will set kids up for obesity and heart disease, gt; gt; gt; gt; America's gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; number one cause of death. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; And dairy products may actually cause osteoporosis, not gt; gt; prevent gt; gt; gt; gt; it, gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; since their high-protein content leaches calcium from the gt; gt; body. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Population studies, backed up by a groundbreaking Harvard gt; gt; study of gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; more than 75,000 nurses, suggest that drinking milk can gt; gt; actually gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; cause osteoporosis. Find out more by visiting our links page. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; WHAT YOU CAN DO: gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average gt; gt; gt; gt; American gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; consumes more than 550 pounds of dairy products annually, gt; gt; which gt; gt; gt; gt; is 40 gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; percent of the bulk of the food we eat. Click here to see an gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; illustration of the "Food Pyramid" which is representative of gt; gt; gt; gt; actual gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; American eating habits. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Give the bottle the boot! Instead, try delicious soy or rice gt; gt; milk, gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; soy cheese, Tofutti ice cream, and tofu sour cream and cream gt; gt; gt; gt; cheese. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; All are widely available at health food stores and many gt; gt; gt; gt; supermarkets. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Click here for information on adopting a dairy-free diet. gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; In The News gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Anit-milk ad 'a cheap point at the expense of Catholics' (The gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Vancouver Sun) gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Factory Dairies Invade Wisconsin (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel) gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; White Poison: The Horrors of Milk(Times of India) gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; "There's no reason to drink cow's milk at any time in your gt; gt; life. gt; gt; gt; gt; It gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; was designed for calves, not humans, and we should all stop gt; gt; gt; gt; drinking gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; it today." gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; -Dr. Frank A. Oski gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Former Director of Pediatrics, Johns Hopkins University gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; 501 Front St., Norfolk, VA 23510; 757-622-PETA gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; MilkSucks.comLiving Dairy-FreeFind Out MoreFree Vegetarian gt; gt; gt; gt; Starter gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; PackVegNow.com gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt;