pet vaccines - OT

March 18, 2007

Kadee,

(This is long as many of my posts can be.)

As a veterinarian, I can completely empathize with the attitude you

may receive from some under-educated vets. I find that fear is the

most common reason for this behavior (however, there are some that

have a God Complex). While I practiced solo for a while, I also

worked as an independent contractor or a " doc on the clock " and have

had to listen to a lot of BS.

In doing your own research, you probably found that the scientific

research is collected by certain governing bodies (academies) and

protocols are established to be practice guidelines for the general

veterinarian. For instance, the American Association of Feline

Practitioner for cats and the American Board of Veterinary

Practitioners for dogs and other small animals. They both have

protocols on vaccines, parasites, neutering, dental care, geriatric

care etc. I realize that the military sometimes provides preventive

vet services at a reduced cost. But you may be more comfortable

finding a vet belonging to one of these groups. They absolutely do

have protocols for reduced vaccines and longer vaccine intervals. You

SHOULD be able to hold attitude free conversations with most of them.

They should be involved in the latest research/education and want to

bring that info to their clients. (Beware the vet that joins groups

for advertising purposes but never pays attention to the info.) There

are also veterinarians that provide alternative modalities such as

herbal medicine, nosodes, acupuncture, etc. (Be sure to check their

credentials in this area.)

Anyway, sometimes understanding a person's fear makes it easier to

accept, but not necessarily agree with, their view. In regard to fear

and vaccines:

1. It is true that many vets are under educated and don't take the

time to read the new research. But many adopt a wait and see

approach. They want the research to be proven clinically over time.

This can certainly be helpful at the beginning of a new idea but many

people carry it too far, too long. There are some that are truly

worried about being sued if an unvaccinated animal becomes ill or

dies from a preventable disease under their care. This is a concern I

have also heard voiced among pediatricians. There was some truth in

this when the new information was surfacing, but really not now.

2. ALL businesses work on increasing gross income and decreasing

expenses to be profitable. In a high overhead enterprise such as vet

medicine, this can mean the difference between closing or remaining

open. Paying the utilities and staff is the only way to be available

to help animals. (This was different in the 70's when over head was

low and has become less of a problem recently with new vets being

taught practice management. I know there are some practices in large

cities that do well but many vets make the same take home as a dental

technician - 2 years of study vs. 8 -10 years with $100,000 in

student loans. You can see where fear is building). Anyway, in the

past the annual health exam has been charged for by building it into

the cost of vaccines. Vaccines themselves are cheap. Traditionally,

people weren't expected to understand vet or human medicine. It was

thought that paying for something tangible was the only way a client

would come to the vet. This is true if the clients aren't educated

why the change has occurred. So, you take away the vaccines and many

people stopped bringing their pets to the vet. They didn't understand

the need for a preventative exam, especially if they had to pay for

it. Vets would not see animals for three years and then " suddenly "

there would be a chronic disease process that would now difficult to

manage and the vet was blamed. It is crucial that the public is

educated in this aspect. And, the new system is generally now working

fine. Even human health insurance is starting to pay for

adult " wellness exams " - they didn't always. So, you take away the

primary income generating service of a vet clinic, and you have some

very nervous vets or office owners (which do not have to be vets in

some states). Wow, that was long winded.

Anyway, the new information really isn't new anymore and it has been

proven to be scientifically valid and clinics aren't closing down if

managed properly. I hate to hear you have had problems. I hope you

can find someone you trust.

Have you read Foods That Pets Die For? It is a great little book

about the horrible ingredients in pet foods. It is true that about

25% of small animal nutrition courses in school (much more as a

graduate) is paid for by the pet food companies. But it is backed

with research that is not always their own or conducted poorly (vegan

ethics aside). I found the courses I took to be open minded with lots

of questions and ongoing discussions. I had three different companies

supply materials for the classroom and several others were present

at " fairs. " This is much more nutrition than many human medical

doctors have received in the past. I have found vets to be more

knowledgeable in nutrition. However, I found the large animal

nutrition course to be very narrow minded with no room for discussion

that wasn't economically centered. And of course, each college has

different instructors and attitudes.

Something that I try to remember is to use the research as my

foundation and then expand upon it because this type of system isn't

present only in vet or human medicine. The only reason we know of the

specific chemicals and actions in cranberries, for instance, is

because the cranberry board paid for that research - not a medical

group. We are seeing more studies done by medical groups though. And

this is true for most everything, fertilizers, fibers for cloth,

fuels or alternative fuels.

Regarding the internet, you shouldn't be receiving so much attitude

there either. Sure, I have seen many wacko sites.* But there is a lot

of great info out there too. I had a client bring me a lengthy

article from the internet about 10 years ago. Much of it was very

good but there was a small amount of very poor information and some

outdated info in it. I read that article and made notes for my client

and gave her more printed info for her to read. I ended up creating a

handout that referred to that website and used it as a positive

educational tool for my renal failure cats. And I had a great

relationship with this client and worked with her cat for a long

time. I trusted her instinct to help her pet and she trusted me for

allowing her to be involved in the decisions. What a concept! The

internet isn't the only place with " bad " info. The library is full of

it too. To be honest, I haven't moved forward technologically as fast

as some, but I can't understand why having an almost unlimited source

of info is so scary or offensive to some.* Having a client act as an

advocate for their pet really does help me give that pet the best

care. (Of course, unless I didn't want to continue to learn and

change or I wanted to be a God.)

I try to teach my family and friends to be advocates for their own

health, their family and pets. But there is still resistance from

them. Then they get mad when something goes " wrong. " My nephew had a

growth that the lab reported as cancerous. The doctor either felt it

wasn't right, or maybe always runs malignant results a second time,

and found the growth was benign. But my FIL wanted to sue the lab AND

the doctor. And recently, my neighbor just sat and watched her

husband die post-surgery because one (and only one) nurse told her

not to worry. My neighbor and her husband both knew something was

wrong but she didn't get another nurse to look at him or request a

doctor. (He even said " I am going to die " and was in such terrible

pain he couldn't speak further. She just stroked his hand and mopped

his brow for an hour until another nurse came in and freaked out.)

And she is actually an intelligent woman. Go figure! So, I see fear

and attitude in docs and complacency and attitude in patients. I

just wish all parties could come together so there weren't " sides. "

" It's really sad that a pediatrician's office can be such a dangerous

place. "

And it is so hard to educate " lemmings " no matter how gently. I worry

to the point that I have to completely let go where my nephews are

involved. All I try to convince my family to do is to research and

think for themselves - not just do as I do. It seems this is just too

much to ask.

Sorry such a long post - self education and advocacy are obviously

important to me.

Carrol

* When a client receives bad info, the vet does have to spend

time " uneducating " the client. Also, tracking down the validity of

information one is not familiar with can take a lot of time. So, it

is reasonable that some vets feel that the internet creates more work

for them in a very stressful job. It is different than having others

do the research and attending the various seminars to gather the info

and then come to your own conclusions. But, there are too many

positives to the internet to try to abolish its presence in a vet

practice.

, Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote:

>

> I used to have such faith in doctors. We took Leah in for her shots

perfectly on time every time, and whatever the doctor said to do, we

did it. Then we started planning to get a dog, and I was reading on

the internet about how to take care of one. I came across a lot of

information about how harmful vaccines can be, and how vets try to

make people vaccinate against even little non-life threatening

diseases that even the vaccine isn't 100% effective against!! I made

the decision then to not vaccinate our dogs. Then that got me to

thinking, " what if the same thing is happening with my kids? " So I

read up on that, and it's the exact same thing. The companies that

make the vaccines are the ones telling us we need them, and most

people are under the impression that our government is actually out

to protect us so they go in like sheep and have their kids shot full

of every vaccine on the planet. Sigh.

>

> That is infuriating when people badmouth the internet and then use

it themselves. We feed our dogs homemade food, and a vet we used to

go to flipped out on us. He said I shouldn't believe everything I

read on the internet. Then when I told him I wasn't going to take

crap from a guy whose nutrition courses in vet school were paid for

by the company whose product just happened to be all over the office,

he got mad and said he was on the internet every single day reading

about different diets!! Stupid!! Our kids are all so lucky that we do

the research we do. It's really sad that a pediatrician's office can

be such a dangerous place.

>

March 19, 2007

That God complex was the main problem with the first vet we went to. We told him

we wanted only parvo and distemper vaccines, and he gave two others after I'd

told him I only wanted those two, just because he felt it was best, and a

de-wormer without even asking me first. He also gave our dog with discoid lupus

a rabies shot while she was under anesthesia. Then he told me raw diets were

eeeeeevil, and pretty much said no one but a big pet food manufacturing company

is capable of properly feeding a dog. He was such a jerk. We have a holistic vet

right now, and it is SO NICE because she doesn't try to push stuff on us. She's

a bit more expensive to go to than any of the conventional vets we've seen but

worth every dime. She asks what we're doing as far as food, vaccines, lifestyle,

etc. and she's not critical. She even did a bunch of reading on a vegetarian

diet for dogs so she could help us get the supplements just right. Our dog Lucy

had to go in for some dental work once

when she broke some teeth out, the idiot dog, and one of the vet techs was

trying to force me into getting Lucy a whole load of shots because she said

Illinois law requires that pets going into surgery be " current " on all

vaccinations. I told her if they shot my dog with any of that crap there would

indeed be trouble, and sure enough they didn't. People need to educate

themselves before they go off getting pets. We recently rescued 6 pet rats, and

all of them had been living in ridiculously small cages, eating junk food their

whole lives. How long does it take to read up on rats?? I did a little reading

every night for a month or two and I felt comfortable taking care of them. For

my dogs, I was online for an hour or two a night for well over a year, reading

up on vaccines and diet and breeds and anything else I could find. I was

prepared, and it paid off. Our dogs don't get sick, they don't have skin

problems and we can feed them anything without upsetting their stomachs,

they're alert and active and they're both excellent weights. We should be the

people vets dream about having as clients!!! But instead that first vet we went

to hated us because we weren't just like everybody else. Just like at the doctor

with the kids. We drive them nuts with our questions and our knowledge. It's

nice that we've got a holistic vet now, that makes life a million times easier.

Even our conventional vet that we go to for our rats and mice is really

open-minded about things, and she's no trouble for us at all.

People who refuse to take their pets in for checkups shouldn't have them in the

first place. Our older dog lived in a little pen at my parents' house for 8

years before we got her, and since she was about two her nose was pink. They

never wondered what was wrong, and they never took her in about it. It turned

out to be discoid lupus, and she'd been in an almost constant flare-up for six

years!! My uncle's ex-wife has a sister with discoid lupus, and she said without

treatment it's extremely painful. That's part of our reason for not vaccinating

her... though we don't vaccinate the other adult and the puppy will get a rabies

shot when he's a year. She had a nasty flare up when she got that rabies shot

though. People I guess just don't think pets are worth taking to the vet. We've

been laughed at for taking our pet mice and rats to the vet and it infuriates

me. Shooting dogs full of vaccines shouldn't be used as a tool for business.

People need to learn that their pets NEED

checkups, and that vaccines are only part of the deal. But like you said, it's

hard to educate lemmings!! It's amazing, there's so much information out there

and people still breed their dogs and cats, and they still give the babies away

free to whoever wants them. I respond to probably four or five freecycle ads per

week when people are giving away free pets. I feel like somebody needs to tell

these people what they're doing, and how awful it could be for the pet if the

wrong person gets ahold of it. Someone last week was giving away an unneutered

purebred beagle with papers. This is puppymill country!!! I saw that and went

into a mad panic, e-mailed them as quickly as they could and I didn't hear back

from them. People can be such idiots sometimes. Rrrgh.

rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote: