Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hi, A little off topice but not really since land use and environment are inseperable. I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so much more we can do. Paula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Awesome! And you're definitely right, there's always more to do. PAULA JOHNSON TEW <johnsontew wrote: Hi, A little off topice but not really since land use and environment are inseperable. I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so much more we can do. Paula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person presenting that information. I'm so jealous! Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse Life is an adventure in forgiveness. Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) PAULA JOHNSON TEW <johnsontew Vegetarian Parents Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM An Inconvenient Truth Hi, A little off topice but not really since land use and environment are inseperable. I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so much more we can do. Paula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock farming and its major impact onclimate change . here is a link to the report ; http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together. Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main causes of acid rain. Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres of water to produce one litre of milk. Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into drinking water and endanger human health. The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and creating “dead zones” devoid of life. The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as demand for meat increases. Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more productive activities. In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder. I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the impact of what we put on our plate " http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I have not visited . If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet there is a great site where you may do so ; http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and I appreciate his efforts I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have a tremendous impact . Teresa here is a link to the report ; - Jess <veg4animals2006 Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm Re: An Inconvenient Truth > Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how > passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person > presenting that information. I'm so jealous! > > > > > Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse > > Life is an adventure in forgiveness. > Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) > > > > > > PAULA JOHNSON TEW <johnsontew > Vegetarian Parents > Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM > An Inconvenient Truth > > Hi, > > A little off topice but not really since land use and environment > are inseperable. > > I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was > amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, > funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally > consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so > much more we can do. > > Paula > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hi, I agree that the omission is a disappointment. I always get frustrated with the " environmental scientists, " " ecotourism experts/advocates, " et cetera at work who consume meat and don't give it a second thought. Who don't even consider the impacts of their lifestyle. I am wondering if it would have turned off many people, caused them not to listen, if their beloved diet was criticised. We see how defensive people get about what they eat. Baby steps.... Al Gore did mention that if we are overwhelmed then our reaction is often to give up/not think about it. It's something to do with the way our brains are wired...why we can be scared of snakes but not take any action on climate change even though climate change is a much scarier thing. I'm not saying that it was even part of the thought process but it may have made the entire argument " unpalatable " to the avereage person. Thanks for the link etc. I always like to have this stuff in my futile attempts to talk reason with my colleagues. Paula " outonalimb " <outonalimb Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:37:46 PM Re: An Inconvenient Truth I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock farming and its major impact onclimate change . here is a link to the report ; http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together. Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main causes of acid rain. Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres of water to produce one litre of milk. Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into drinking water and endanger human health. The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and creating “dead zones” devoid of life. The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as demand for meat increases. Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more productive activities. In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder. I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the impact of what we put on our plate " http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I have not visited . If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet there is a great site where you may do so ; http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and I appreciate his efforts I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have a tremendous impact . Teresa here is a link to the report ; - Jess <veg4animals2006 Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm Re: An Inconvenient Truth > Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how > passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person > presenting that information. I'm so jealous! > > > > > Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse > > Life is an adventure in forgiveness. > Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) > > > > > > PAULA JOHNSON TEW <johnsontew > Vegetarian Parents > Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM > An Inconvenient Truth > > Hi, > > A little off topice but not really since land use and environment > are inseperable. > > I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was > amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, > funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally > consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so > much more we can do. > > Paula > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Wow, I'd never seen the statistics like that. I knew eating meat was bad for the planet but that's amazing how very huge it is. I'm so out of the loop, I don't even know when the next presidential election is!! I voted in the last one but I never even know what day it is, much less how long ago I did something... I should start reading the news... Who the heck is Al Gore, anyway? Just kidding. My news research is limited to Fark.com! (not kidding) outonalimb wrote: I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock farming and its major impact onclimate change . here is a link to the report ; http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together. Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main causes of acid rain. Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres of water to produce one litre of milk. Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into drinking water and endanger human health. The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and creating “dead zones” devoid of life. The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as demand for meat increases. Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more productive activities. In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder. I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the impact of what we put on our plate " http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I have not visited . If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet there is a great site where you may do so ; http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and I appreciate his efforts I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have a tremendous impact . Teresa here is a link to the report ; - Jess Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm Re: An Inconvenient Truth > Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how > passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person > presenting that information. I'm so jealous! > > > > > Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse > > Life is an adventure in forgiveness. > Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) > > > > > > PAULA JOHNSON TEW > Vegetarian Parents > Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM > An Inconvenient Truth > > Hi, > > A little off topice but not really since land use and environment > are inseperable. > > I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was > amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, > funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally > consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so > much more we can do. > > Paula > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess <veg4animals2006 > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW <johnsontew >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 What the devil?? I just simply cannot come up with anything else to say to that... Brave of you to send out to people, I would never have the guts because, well, we're Texas folk and our families are not the classiest of people. We might get a bag of deer guts for Christmas or something, and I'm almost not kidding. Hopefully you'll get a few positive responses and no more of whatever the heck that was that your cousin sent! Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 your cousin should stop watching fox news and start listening to democracy now radio and air america Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 This may be a duh thing to a lot of you, but how DO you respond to the whole job argument? Someone told me that once and I didn't know how to reply. I said it would seem to me that the extra farming land would help make up for those jobs, but I didn't know that for a fact. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: your cousin should stop watching fox news and start listening to democracy now radio and air america Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Maybe there wouldn't be so many jobs in slaughterhouses... I don't know if it would even out, honestly... even so, it'd be beneficial to the world as a whole. Maybe a few slaughterhouse workers would be out of jobs, but isn't that worth letting the rest of the world breathe cleaner air and drink cleaner water? I think so. L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote: This may be a duh thing to a lot of you, but how DO you respond to the whole job argument? Someone told me that once and I didn't know how to reply. I said it would seem to me that the extra farming land would help make up for those jobs, but I didn't know that for a fact. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: your cousin should stop watching fox news and start listening to democracy now radio and air america Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Funding alternative energy projects would create more than enough jobs. Through in taking away the tax incentives given to corporations for off-shoring jobs; add in taxing war profits and taking away tax cuts for the wealthiest, and we have a real plan to improve the environment and the economy. L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote: This may be a duh thing to a lot of you, but how DO you respond to the whole job argument? Someone told me that once and I didn't know how to reply. I said it would seem to me that the extra farming land would help make up for those jobs, but I didn't know that for a fact. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: your cousin should stop watching fox news and start listening to democracy now radio and air america Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock’s Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world’s > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock’s Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world’s emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is “the major driver of deforestation” worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating “dead zones” devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer ‘need’ to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I’ll repeat that - livestock production ”takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet.” That’s a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we’re carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV’s - but let’s also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 If I am remembering correctly, I read in Diet for a New America that it takes 10 acres of grain to produce a pound of beef. Think of all the cereals, breads, etc... that could be made with all 10 areas worth of grain. Lots more people could be fed with that, than from the meat. I think that is a great argument for using our land in a more economical environmentally friendly way. Plus you don't have all that pollution from all the cows, polluting the ground water. - Kadee M Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:47 PM Re: An Inconvenient Truth Maybe there wouldn't be so many jobs in slaughterhouses... I don't know if it would even out, honestly... even so, it'd be beneficial to the world as a whole. Maybe a few slaughterhouse workers would be out of jobs, but isn't that worth letting the rest of the world breathe cleaner air and drink cleaner water? I think so. L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote: This may be a duh thing to a lot of you, but how DO you respond to the whole job argument? Someone told me that once and I didn't know how to reply. I said it would seem to me that the extra farming land would help make up for those jobs, but I didn't know that for a fact. robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: your cousin should stop watching fox news and start listening to democracy now radio and air america Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes ago and I already got this back from my cousin: Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( Heather outonalimb wrote: > I like Al Gore but as an ardent enviro, myself , I was very > disappointed at the overt omission of factory farmings contribution to > global warming .The UN recently released a report regarding livestock > farming and its major impact onclimate change . > here is a link to the report ; > http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm > > here are a few excerpts from a site I like ; > > United Nations report has identified the world's rapidly growing > herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and > wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental > crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from > producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning > rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs. > > The 400-page report by the Food and Agricultural Organisation, > entitled Livestock's Long Shadow, also surveys the damage done by > sheep, chickens, pigs and goats. But in almost every case, the world's > 1.5 billion cattle are most to blame. - Independent > > " A few shocking facts from the Livestock's Long Shadow Report: > > Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that > cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of > transport put together. > Burning fuel to produce fertiliser to grow feed, to produce meat and > to transport it - and clearing vegetation for grazing - produces 9 per > cent of all emissions of carbon dioxide. > Their wind and manure emit more than one third of emissions of > methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. > Livestock produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more > than two-thirds of the world's emissions of ammonia, one of the main > causes of acid rain. > Ranching is " the major driver of deforestation " worldwide. > Overgrazing is turning a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert. > Cows soak up vast amounts of water: it takes a staggering 990 litres > of water to produce one litre of milk. > Wastes from feedlots and fertilisers used to grow their feed > overnourish water, causing weeds to choke all other life. > Pesticides, antibiotics and hormones used to treat them get into > drinking water and endanger human health. > The pollution washes down to the sea, killing coral reefs and > creating " dead zones " devoid of life. > The report concludes that, unless drastic changes are made, the > massive damage done by livestock will more than double by 2050, as > demand for meat increases. > > Essentially, by reducing or eliminating our appetite for meat, vast > tracts of land that are now straining under hooves and chemicals could > be returned to their natural carbon-absorbing state, and much needed > biodiversity can be returned. This includes not just the land cattle > roam on, but the huge tracts of land used for growing livestock feed. > Rainforests would no longer 'need' to be cut down, and the huge > amounts of energy consumed in meat production can be diverted to more > productive activities. > > In all, livestock production accounts for 70 percent of all > agricultural land and 30 percent of the land surface of the planet. > Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, > especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation > is occurring - 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is > occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the > remainder. > > I'll repeat that - livestock production " takes up 30 percent of the > land surface of the planet. " That's a lot of polluting, consuming, > baggage we're carrying. Yes, we need to get rid of our incandescent > light bulbs and our gas-guzzling SUV's - but let's also consider the > impact of what we put on our plate " > http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/11/the-cow-public-enemy-number-one/ > The UN report just confirms what enviros have long known, so Als > omission is a bit disenhartening esp. since he titled his doc " An > inconvienant truth " I think that perhaps his penchant for meat keeps > him avoiding the issue .It seems sadly ironic to me .I understand that > he does have a single page on 'eating less meat ' on his site but I > have not visited . > If youd like to measure your enviromental footprint upon the planet > there is a great site where you may do so ; > http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp > > Im not trying to cause a fuss or being nasty - just stating a truth > that the vast majority of Americans want to avoid .I like Al Gore and > I appreciate his efforts > I hope that he starts telling the Entire truth though, as it does have > a tremendous impact . > Teresa > > here is a link to the report ; > > > > - > Jess > Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:18 pm > Re: An Inconvenient Truth > > > >> Seeing that movie really changed my world perspective. I loved how >> passionate he was and would love love love to see him in person >> presenting that information. I'm so jealous! >> >> >> >> >> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse >> >> Life is an adventure in forgiveness. >> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990) >> >> >> >> >> >> PAULA JOHNSON TEW >> Vegetarian Parents >> Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:30:42 AM >> An Inconvenient Truth >> >> Hi, >> >> A little off topice but not really since land use and environment >> are inseperable. >> >> I got to see Al Gore last night at University of Toronto! He was >> amazing! He was such a fantastic speaker - dynamic, interesting, >> funny. I'm renewing my efforts to be more environmentally >> consciouss!! We are pretty good at home but there is always so >> much more we can do. >> >> Paula >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Entire industries have disappeared before. There aren't many coopers, typesetters, blacksmiths, or keypunch operators anymore. But since entirely NEW industries crop up all the time, it doesn't seem to be a problem (in the aggregate; obviously, for the individuals who lose their jobs, it's a huge problem). So, in our hoped-for utopia, there would be no butchers and a lot more greengrocers. Besides, organic farming is more labour-intensive than conventional farming, and much more so than ranching or dairy farming. Plenty of jobs to go around! Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Excellant point! Thank you! ERB <bakwin wrote: Entire industries have disappeared before. There aren't many coopers, typesetters, blacksmiths, or keypunch operators anymore. But since entirely NEW industries crop up all the time, it doesn't seem to be a problem (in the aggregate; obviously, for the individuals who lose their jobs, it's a huge problem). So, in our hoped-for utopia, there would be no butchers and a lot more greengrocers. Besides, organic farming is more labour-intensive than conventional farming, and much more so than ranching or dairy farming. Plenty of jobs to go around! Liz Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Heather, if your cousin really cared about all of those workers, he/she would stop eating animals. Slaughter house workers have the highest rate of injury of any industry (and they have the mental stresses like depression and more severe problems to go with it). Not to mention, his/her accounting of how things would unfold is completely unsupported and likely NOT correct. I think it's safe to say your cousin doesn't understand economics or how the economy works, and he/she certainly doesn't understand that dietary-caused diseases are the biggest burden on our health-care system. Making environmentally-responsible changes to our lifestyles (in this case, dietary lifestyle choices) can be a boon to the economy. The current economy, including the food system, is built on a bubble econmy (unsustainable) that will burst. THAT will cause much worse burdens than in his/her bizarro-world version of economic problems from not eating meat. Even your cousin's own illogical accounting has discrepencies. He talks about an increased burden on our health care system because we don't have enough workers and this being caused by a lack of jobs. Lack of workers = jobs available (I know that there are training issues here, but your cousin wasn't logical anyway, so I can ignore the logic of training issues.) I'd love for your cousin to put me in touch with just one of these vegan families with an unhealthy child. I doubt these families really exist, and if they do, there is probably some other underlying cause of the problem. There are certainly junk food vegans out there, and there are plently of ways be unhealthy as a vegetarian or vegan, but I don't personally know to many veg people eating like that. My son is sick way less than his cousins, and when he is, it simply is so mild that it is hard to even tell if he is sick (with a cold). A lot of this boils down to germ-exposure and genetics, too, but diet has a big hand in the body's ability to handle the sickness once there. I think all of us on this list are living proof that meat (or any other animal product, for that matter) isn't necessary in the diet. Some people will find any excuses they can to maintain the status quo. Bravo to you for trying to make a difference, though! --Allison , Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: > > Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family > and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you > were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to > the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect > everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a > week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that > one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes > ago and I already got this back from my cousin: > > Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by > people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs > which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't > keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put > our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a > strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher > and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire > need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we > wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy > living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one > of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or > vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice for > them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who > are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them > their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more > sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on your > parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their > own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. > > Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if > it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder > how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less > likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( > Heather > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 <<he/she certainly doesn't understand that dietary-caused diseases are the biggest burden on our health-care system.>> Wait, you mean if everyone eats a healthy veg*n diet, we'll be putting doctors & nurses out of jobs? Oh, well, then....in that case, we'd better go back to ruining our health, for the sake of those highly trained workers. <tongue-in-cheek> Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thanks for all this info everyone! I will file these to better respond to future arguments :-) My cousin e-mailed me twice more about that, and it was very discouraging for me because it was the first time I have personally experienced such brick-wall willful ignorance (I have heard many examples, and I know many of you run into it regularly). Among her many comments: - some dinosaurs were vegetarian too and there were no emissions then, and they went extinct anyway - we're just in a climate cycle, there's nothing we can possibly do so there's no point in changing anything Then she asked me for more information, and when I gave it to her (very evenly and politely I must say, I know I won't win anyone over by being pushy) she responded that I was like a Jehovah's Witness pushing my opinion on everyone and had no right to send information to people who didn't ask for it! But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to responded to say thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce their meat intake. My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said after the six weeks are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. A woman I know casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this morning to ask if I would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other people because she thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked if I could send her some recipes (she's not vegetarian... yet...). I'm so thankful for this online community! Heather Allison wrote: > > Heather, if your cousin really cared about all of those workers, > he/she would stop eating animals. Slaughter house workers have the > highest rate of injury of any industry (and they have the mental > stresses like depression and more severe problems to go with it). > > Not to mention, his/her accounting of how things would unfold is > completely unsupported and likely NOT correct. I think it's safe to > say your cousin doesn't understand economics or how the economy works, > and he/she certainly doesn't understand that dietary-caused diseases > are the biggest burden on our health-care system. Making > environmentally-responsible changes to our lifestyles (in this case, > dietary lifestyle choices) can be a boon to the economy. The current > economy, including the food system, is built on a bubble econmy > (unsustainable) that will burst. THAT will cause much worse burdens > than in his/her bizarro-world version of economic problems from not > eating meat. Even your cousin's own illogical accounting has > discrepencies. He talks about an increased burden on our health care > system because we don't have enough workers and this being caused by a > lack of jobs. Lack of workers = jobs available (I know that there are > training issues here, but your cousin wasn't logical anyway, so I can > ignore the logic of training issues.) > > I'd love for your cousin to put me in touch with just one of these > vegan families with an unhealthy child. I doubt these families really > exist, and if they do, there is probably some other underlying cause > of the problem. There are certainly junk food vegans out there, and > there are plently of ways be unhealthy as a vegetarian or vegan, but I > don't personally know to many veg people eating like that. My son is > sick way less than his cousins, and when he is, it simply is so mild > that it is hard to even tell if he is sick (with a cold). A lot of > this boils down to germ-exposure and genetics, too, but diet has a big > hand in the body's ability to handle the sickness once there. > > I think all of us on this list are living proof that meat (or any > other animal product, for that matter) isn't necessary in the diet. > > Some people will find any excuses they can to maintain the status quo. > Bravo to you for trying to make a difference, though! > > --Allison > > > <%40>, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 > wrote: > > > > Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family > > and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you > > were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to > > the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect > > everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a > > week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that > > one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes > > ago and I already got this back from my cousin: > > > > Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by > > people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs > > which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't > > keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put > > our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a > > strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher > > and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire > > need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we > > wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy > > living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one > > of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or > > vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice > for > > them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who > > are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them > > their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more > > sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on > your > > parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their > > own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. > > > > Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if > > it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder > > how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less > > likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( > > Heather > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I think maybe this cousin of yours has a really twisted sense of humor... hopefully... because that dinosaur argument is, I believe, one of the SILLIEST ones I've heard. Maybe she's just messing with you?? Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: Thanks for all this info everyone! I will file these to better respond to future arguments :-) My cousin e-mailed me twice more about that, and it was very discouraging for me because it was the first time I have personally experienced such brick-wall willful ignorance (I have heard many examples, and I know many of you run into it regularly). Among her many comments: - some dinosaurs were vegetarian too and there were no emissions then, and they went extinct anyway - we're just in a climate cycle, there's nothing we can possibly do so there's no point in changing anything Then she asked me for more information, and when I gave it to her (very evenly and politely I must say, I know I won't win anyone over by being pushy) she responded that I was like a Jehovah's Witness pushing my opinion on everyone and had no right to send information to people who didn't ask for it! But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to responded to say thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce their meat intake. My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said after the six weeks are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. A woman I know casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this morning to ask if I would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other people because she thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked if I could send her some recipes (she's not vegetarian... yet...). I'm so thankful for this online community! Heather Allison wrote: > > Heather, if your cousin really cared about all of those workers, > he/she would stop eating animals. Slaughter house workers have the > highest rate of injury of any industry (and they have the mental > stresses like depression and more severe problems to go with it). > > Not to mention, his/her accounting of how things would unfold is > completely unsupported and likely NOT correct. I think it's safe to > say your cousin doesn't understand economics or how the economy works, > and he/she certainly doesn't understand that dietary-caused diseases > are the biggest burden on our health-care system. Making > environmentally-responsible changes to our lifestyles (in this case, > dietary lifestyle choices) can be a boon to the economy. The current > economy, including the food system, is built on a bubble econmy > (unsustainable) that will burst. THAT will cause much worse burdens > than in his/her bizarro-world version of economic problems from not > eating meat. Even your cousin's own illogical accounting has > discrepencies. He talks about an increased burden on our health care > system because we don't have enough workers and this being caused by a > lack of jobs. Lack of workers = jobs available (I know that there are > training issues here, but your cousin wasn't logical anyway, so I can > ignore the logic of training issues.) > > I'd love for your cousin to put me in touch with just one of these > vegan families with an unhealthy child. I doubt these families really > exist, and if they do, there is probably some other underlying cause > of the problem. There are certainly junk food vegans out there, and > there are plently of ways be unhealthy as a vegetarian or vegan, but I > don't personally know to many veg people eating like that. My son is > sick way less than his cousins, and when he is, it simply is so mild > that it is hard to even tell if he is sick (with a cold). A lot of > this boils down to germ-exposure and genetics, too, but diet has a big > hand in the body's ability to handle the sickness once there. > > I think all of us on this list are living proof that meat (or any > other animal product, for that matter) isn't necessary in the diet. > > Some people will find any excuses they can to maintain the status quo. > Bravo to you for trying to make a difference, though! > > --Allison > > > <%40>, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 > wrote: > > > > Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of family > > and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some of you > > were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make it to > > the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect > > everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a > > week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on that > > one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes > > ago and I already got this back from my cousin: > > > > Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by > > people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs > > which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't > > keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which would put > > our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a > > strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression higher > > and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire > > need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we > > wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy > > living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat as one > > of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or > > vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice > for > > them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who > > are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them > > their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more > > sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on > your > > parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes their > > own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every situation. > > > > Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if > > it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder > > how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less > > likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( > > Heather > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 No, sadly, she is totally serious. That's what I mean by brick-wall willful ignorance. Heather Kadee M wrote: > > I think maybe this cousin of yours has a really twisted sense of > humor... hopefully... because that dinosaur argument is, I believe, > one of the SILLIEST ones I've heard. Maybe she's just messing with you?? > > Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 <hlh4850%40gmail.com>> > wrote: Thanks for all this info everyone! I will file these to better > respond > to future arguments :-) > > My cousin e-mailed me twice more about that, and it was very > discouraging for me because it was the first time I have personally > experienced such brick-wall willful ignorance (I have heard many > examples, and I know many of you run into it regularly). Among her many > comments: > - some dinosaurs were vegetarian too and there were no emissions then, > and they went extinct anyway > - we're just in a climate cycle, there's nothing we can possibly do so > there's no point in changing anything > > Then she asked me for more information, and when I gave it to her (very > evenly and politely I must say, I know I won't win anyone over by being > pushy) she responded that I was like a Jehovah's Witness pushing my > opinion on everyone and had no right to send information to people who > didn't ask for it! > > But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to responded to say > thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce their meat intake. > My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said after the six weeks > are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. A woman I know > casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this morning to ask if I > would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other people because she > thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked if I could send > her some recipes (she's not vegetarian... yet...). > > I'm so thankful for this online community! > Heather > > Allison wrote: > > > > Heather, if your cousin really cared about all of those workers, > > he/she would stop eating animals. Slaughter house workers have the > > highest rate of injury of any industry (and they have the mental > > stresses like depression and more severe problems to go with it). > > > > Not to mention, his/her accounting of how things would unfold is > > completely unsupported and likely NOT correct. I think it's safe to > > say your cousin doesn't understand economics or how the economy works, > > and he/she certainly doesn't understand that dietary-caused diseases > > are the biggest burden on our health-care system. Making > > environmentally-responsible changes to our lifestyles (in this case, > > dietary lifestyle choices) can be a boon to the economy. The current > > economy, including the food system, is built on a bubble econmy > > (unsustainable) that will burst. THAT will cause much worse burdens > > than in his/her bizarro-world version of economic problems from not > > eating meat. Even your cousin's own illogical accounting has > > discrepencies. He talks about an increased burden on our health care > > system because we don't have enough workers and this being caused by a > > lack of jobs. Lack of workers = jobs available (I know that there are > > training issues here, but your cousin wasn't logical anyway, so I can > > ignore the logic of training issues.) > > > > I'd love for your cousin to put me in touch with just one of these > > vegan families with an unhealthy child. I doubt these families really > > exist, and if they do, there is probably some other underlying cause > > of the problem. There are certainly junk food vegans out there, and > > there are plently of ways be unhealthy as a vegetarian or vegan, but I > > don't personally know to many veg people eating like that. My son is > > sick way less than his cousins, and when he is, it simply is so mild > > that it is hard to even tell if he is sick (with a cold). A lot of > > this boils down to germ-exposure and genetics, too, but diet has a big > > hand in the body's ability to handle the sickness once there. > > > > I think all of us on this list are living proof that meat (or any > > other animal product, for that matter) isn't necessary in the diet. > > > > Some people will find any excuses they can to maintain the status quo. > > Bravo to you for trying to make a difference, though! > > > > --Allison > > > > <%40> > > <%40>, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, this inspired me to send an e-mail out to a whole bunch of > family > > > and friends with some of the points from the study, saying " some > of you > > > were puzzled as to why we became vegan... " . I was careful to make > it to > > > the point but not heavy-handed and said I absolutely do not expect > > > everyone to give up meat but it's easy to cut back by a few meals a > > > week, and offered recipes. It was tough to push the send button on > that > > > one because I don't know what I'll get back! I just sent it 20 minutes > > > ago and I already got this back from my cousin: > > > > > > Those were some interesting facts but please keep in mind too that by > > > people eliminating eating meat their will also be alot of lost jobs > > > which in turn leads to more people depending on food banks which can't > > > keep up to begin with, more people on social assistance which > would put > > > our government in more of a deficet, lost revenue, all of which put a > > > strain on living which in turn would make the rate of depression > higher > > > and those would have to use our health system which is already in dire > > > need of help, we already have a shortage of doctors and nurses, we > > > wouldn't be getting the sources of protein that you need for healthy > > > living, and really canada's food guide has always contained meat > as one > > > of the essential foods to eat. I think people who become vegetarian or > > > vegan should do so on their own and not have people make this choice > > for > > > them. I also know that from some of my friends that have children who > > > are vegetarian and vegan and make their children eat the same as them > > > their children have lots of health problems and always seem to be more > > > sick then friend who eat a balanced diet. I'm not trying to rain on > > your > > > parade Heather, but the fact of the matter is that everyone makes > their > > > own choices and their are arguments for boths sides of every > situation. > > > > > > Me again: I just though maybe it would make people think a bit, and if > > > it just convinced a couple of people to cut back a bit... but I wonder > > > how many of them will read it and have this same reaction and be less > > > likely to listen to my points in future. Sigh :-( > > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 To Heather, I have to say that my proverbial hat is off to you. Although you have one cousin who is obviously offended that you are concerned for the earth, it is wonderful that you have been able to positively influence others. Your one act of boldness will affect many people. I am reading and learning more and more about the truth behind the meat industries, the connection between our diets and our health, the connection between our food and our environments, and I feel like I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who are still blinded by their own indifference. Just announcing my/our decision to give up meat was difficult and met with disbelief. In my family, any difficult issue is effectively swept under the rug and ignored. They just blow me off like I'm a delusional nutcase. Still, I am not good at being silent when I'm excited about something, so they'll all have to listen to the nutcase whether they want to or not. Incidentally, I'm a home schooler and I'm always in an educational mode, so when I got halfway through John Robbins' The Food Revolution, I said " I have got to put this in a book for kids. " I know that it would reach my 10 year old in a new way if she could read it for herself and study the facts. I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm hoping to make it into a unit study for home schoolers. I believe that this generation of students is ready to hear about how the previous generations have messed things up, and that they can do something about it. What do you think? <<But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to responded to say thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce their meat intake. My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said after the six weeks are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. A woman I know casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this morning to ask if I would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other people because she thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked if I could send her some recipes (she's not vegetarian.. . yet...). I'm so thankful for this online community! Heather>> ______________________________\ ____ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. http://autos./green_center/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm hoping to make it into a unit study for home schoolers. I believe that this generation of students is ready to hear about how the previous generations have messed things up, and that they can do something about it. What do you think? We homeschool too. My 9 1/2 yr old son wanted to become a vegi and we asked him to do a position paper on it, researching pros and " cons " and then taking a stand and telling us why - so we were sure it was his decision and not imitating mommy. He read several books for his paper. " Vegan - The New Ethics of Eating " by Erik Marcus was one of the books that was most helpful to us. I can post my sons report in text format if anyone is interested.? Beth On 2/28/07, Jen <thefourlakes wrote: > > To Heather, > I have to say that my proverbial hat is off to you. > Although you have one cousin who is obviously offended > that you are concerned for the earth, it is wonderful > that you have been able to positively influence > others. Your one act of boldness will affect many > people. > > I am reading and learning more and more about the > truth behind the meat industries, the connection > between our diets and our health, the connection > between our food and our environments, and I feel like > I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who > are still blinded by their own indifference. > Just announcing my/our decision to give up meat was > difficult and met with disbelief. > In my family, any difficult issue is effectively swept > under the rug and ignored. They just blow me off like > I'm a delusional nutcase. Still, I am not good at > being silent when I'm excited about something, so > they'll all have to listen to the nutcase whether they > want to or not. > > Incidentally, I'm a home schooler and I'm always in an > educational mode, so when I got halfway through John > Robbins' The Food Revolution, I said " I have got to > put this in a book for kids. " I know that it would > reach my 10 year old in a new way if she could read it > for herself and study the facts. > I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th > graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm > hoping to make it into a unit study for home > schoolers. > I believe that this generation of students is ready to > hear about how the previous generations have messed > things up, and that they can do something about it. > > What do you think? > > <<But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to > responded to say > thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce > their meat intake. > My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said > after the six weeks > are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. > A woman I know > casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this > morning to ask if I > would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other > people because she > thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked > if I could send > her some recipes (she's not vegetarian.. . yet...). > > I'm so thankful for this online community! > Heather>> > > ________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. > http://autos./green_center/ > > -- Blessings, Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 It still gets forcefully ignored by many in our family, but some are coming around. I am trying so hard not to push to the point that they'll just write me off as obnoxious :-). I was really excited by the positive response from that woman at the nursery school -- she actually told me that after she read it she was watching the Oscars and wondered why on earth Al Gore wasn't telling everyone this stuff in his documentary. My mother-in-law keeps pulling out the " well I've eaten this all my life and there's nothing wrong with me " argument (which is debatable, but I won't go there!). Heather Jen wrote: > > To Heather, > I have to say that my proverbial hat is off to you. > Although you have one cousin who is obviously offended > that you are concerned for the earth, it is wonderful > that you have been able to positively influence > others. Your one act of boldness will affect many > people. > > I am reading and learning more and more about the > truth behind the meat industries, the connection > between our diets and our health, the connection > between our food and our environments, and I feel like > I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who > are still blinded by their own indifference. > Just announcing my/our decision to give up meat was > difficult and met with disbelief. > In my family, any difficult issue is effectively swept > under the rug and ignored. They just blow me off like > I'm a delusional nutcase. Still, I am not good at > being silent when I'm excited about something, so > they'll all have to listen to the nutcase whether they > want to or not. > > Incidentally, I'm a home schooler and I'm always in an > educational mode, so when I got halfway through John > Robbins' The Food Revolution, I said " I have got to > put this in a book for kids. " I know that it would > reach my 10 year old in a new way if she could read it > for herself and study the facts. > I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th > graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm > hoping to make it into a unit study for home > schoolers. > I believe that this generation of students is ready to > hear about how the previous generations have messed > things up, and that they can do something about it. > > What do you think? > > <<But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to > responded to say > thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce > their meat intake. > My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said > after the six weeks > are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. > A woman I know > casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this > morning to ask if I > would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other > people because she > thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked > if I could send > her some recipes (she's not vegetarian.. . yet...). > > I'm so thankful for this online community! > Heather>> > > ________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. > http://autos./green_center/ > <http://autos./green_center/> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 <and I feel like I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who are still blinded by their own indifference.> Me, too!!! Especially at church--I go to church, but not SDA, and for whatever reason, people seem to associate vegetarians with all kinds of extremist groups and politics that aren't in any way connected to being a vegetarian. I feel the need to tell people " I don't eat meat " because for some reason, that sounds better than " I'm a vegetarian. " Some day, when they realize I am " normal " , I will tell them and break some stereotypes. (We are pretty new to the area.) Lucky me, I did find 1 vegetarian, though, who has been so for several years, so that has been fantastic as I have only been so for a couple of months. I had never met a vegetarian (that I know of) at all before I move here, so I am happy! Jen <thefourlakes wrote: To Heather, I have to say that my proverbial hat is off to you. Although you have one cousin who is obviously offended that you are concerned for the earth, it is wonderful that you have been able to positively influence others. Your one act of boldness will affect many people. I am reading and learning more and more about the truth behind the meat industries, the connection between our diets and our health, the connection between our food and our environments, and I feel like I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who are still blinded by their own indifference. Just announcing my/our decision to give up meat was difficult and met with disbelief. In my family, any difficult issue is effectively swept under the rug and ignored. They just blow me off like I'm a delusional nutcase. Still, I am not good at being silent when I'm excited about something, so they'll all have to listen to the nutcase whether they want to or not. Incidentally, I'm a home schooler and I'm always in an educational mode, so when I got halfway through John Robbins' The Food Revolution, I said " I have got to put this in a book for kids. " I know that it would reach my 10 year old in a new way if she could read it for herself and study the facts. I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm hoping to make it into a unit study for home schoolers. I believe that this generation of students is ready to hear about how the previous generations have messed things up, and that they can do something about it. What do you think? <<But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to responded to say thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce their meat intake. My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said after the six weeks are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. A woman I know casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this morning to ask if I would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other people because she thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked if I could send her some recipes (she's not vegetarian.. . yet...). I'm so thankful for this online community! Heather>> ________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. http://autos./green_center/ Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Mail on your mobile. Get started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think that is a fantastic idea. I am trying to get my parents (who also homeschool) to watch it, but they won't (and even if they did, they probably would just remain in their state of denial). If the co-op watched it, though, they would watch it with them. I also think the way you handled your son was great, too! Kudos! Beth Montgomery <biblechick wrote: I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm hoping to make it into a unit study for home schoolers. I believe that this generation of students is ready to hear about how the previous generations have messed things up, and that they can do something about it. What do you think? We homeschool too. My 9 1/2 yr old son wanted to become a vegi and we asked him to do a position paper on it, researching pros and " cons " and then taking a stand and telling us why - so we were sure it was his decision and not imitating mommy. He read several books for his paper. " Vegan - The New Ethics of Eating " by Erik Marcus was one of the books that was most helpful to us. I can post my sons report in text format if anyone is interested.? Beth On 2/28/07, Jen <thefourlakes wrote: > > To Heather, > I have to say that my proverbial hat is off to you. > Although you have one cousin who is obviously offended > that you are concerned for the earth, it is wonderful > that you have been able to positively influence > others. Your one act of boldness will affect many > people. > > I am reading and learning more and more about the > truth behind the meat industries, the connection > between our diets and our health, the connection > between our food and our environments, and I feel like > I'm gagged when I'm around my family and others who > are still blinded by their own indifference. > Just announcing my/our decision to give up meat was > difficult and met with disbelief. > In my family, any difficult issue is effectively swept > under the rug and ignored. They just blow me off like > I'm a delusional nutcase. Still, I am not good at > being silent when I'm excited about something, so > they'll all have to listen to the nutcase whether they > want to or not. > > Incidentally, I'm a home schooler and I'm always in an > educational mode, so when I got halfway through John > Robbins' The Food Revolution, I said " I have got to > put this in a book for kids. " I know that it would > reach my 10 year old in a new way if she could read it > for herself and study the facts. > I'm already planning on presenting it to our 5th-9th > graders at the co-op school for a few weeks, and I'm > hoping to make it into a unit study for home > schoolers. > I believe that this generation of students is ready to > hear about how the previous generations have messed > things up, and that they can do something about it. > > What do you think? > > <<But on the plus side -- several people I sent it to > responded to say > thanks and told me about how they're trying to reduce > their meat intake. > My aunt decided to give up beef for Lent and said > after the six weeks > are over maybe she'll be able to give it up for good. > A woman I know > casually from my son's nursery school phoned me this > morning to ask if I > would mind if she forwarded it to a bunch of other > people because she > thought everyone should know this stuff, and she asked > if I could send > her some recipes (she's not vegetarian.. . yet...). > > I'm so thankful for this online community! > Heather>> > > ________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. > http://autos./green_center/ > > -- Blessings, Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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