Being Vegetarian

February 4, 2006

Growing up in a Hispanic home we were fed meat with every meal. If you turned

meat down then Mom thought you were sick and would take your temperature.

I spend very little at the grocery store compared to some months ago before I

became a vegetarian and joined this group. I have a lot more energy now and

drops a few pounds.

I purchase from the bulk bins, make more soups and meatless spaghetti that

lasts a few days, eat salads as side dishes, steam vegetables. I noticed there

are many Mexican food recipes in the group files and I plan on cooking some of

those recipes soon.

Kenia

Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

February 4, 2006

On 2/3/06, southernflower <southernflower wrote:

> I don't get how you can be a vegetarian and not care about animals!!!!!

I'll be perfectly honest--before I went vegetarian I was a die-hard

carnivore and was never going to change, and defended it all of the

time. Heck, in my religion we have meat sacrifices to the gods--and I

never hesitate to point out on the other side that yes, there were

groups in my religion that did *meatless* ones too because they were

vegetarian or vegan. Yes, this sort of lifestyle dates back to

ancient Greece!

After not eating meat or dairy for the past couple of months, I can't

even conceive of dead animals as food anymore. And I find the fact

that animal products and their milk is put into dessert positively

disgusting. I talk to others who are vegetarian or vegan and they

agree with me.

I'm giving up eggs because egg salad decided to " have words " with my

digestive system too. I think that my body is smarter than me and has

decided to go vegan, so I'm going to let it.

February 4, 2006

My husband is Mexican and he has to have the food that he grew up

with, Goes out and buys fatty sausage etc and cooks his own. Would

not eat any veggies except corn if he was cooking it. Very sad.

I watch what people are buying at the grocery store. Donna, it is

indead sad what they are feeding their children. Children generally

get very few veggies or fruit and too much processed food full of

chemicals. Deserts and candy are toated as " treats " or " rewards " and

for that, and overeating and eating unhealthy foods, most are

overweight, leading to many diseases. Working mothers give their

kids donuts for breakfast and pizza or burgers for dinner - many

times fed in the car as they go to soccer etc. Two bake sales at my

granddaughters school as fundraisers. I would not participate!

Teacher gave her candy after school - I am going to have to talk to

that teacher! Granddaughter lives with her dad, my son during the

week and I put good things in her lunch. Weekends with mom it is

junk food and fast food and donuts for breakfast. The only veggies

are corn or canned grean beans. I just do what I can and we discuss

food and what is healthy. Patricia

, Donnalilacflower

<thelilacflower wrote:

>

> Part of the problem is the taste. I know from having 1/2

Hispanics n my fmaily that the older generation wants chorizo and

lard beuase they grew up with the flavor and it has nothing to do

with cost. Many of the younger ones are following the same pattern.

> I work with an African American woman that has borderline

diabetes, hypertension and raging cholesterol. I've tried to help

her but she said, nope I want hot links for breakfast and I have to

have my 3 packets of sugar in my coffee and I want the grease in my

greens because I grew up on it and crave it.

> I'm still hoping she will try some of the recipes from our group

and cut down somewhat. Lawanna has greens recipes in our files that

are delicious, vegetarian and almost fat-free.

> Good we brought this up, yesterday there was a white couple in

front of me at the market and they spent $195 on their groceries and

it was nothing but Ding Dongs, Lucky Charms, bologna, hot dogs,

bubble gum, boxed donuts, Kool-Aid, 3 of the 5 pound bags of white

sugar, ice cream, frozen fried chicken, loaves of the cheapest

bread. Not one vegetable and two gallons of whole milk. It's was a

high grocery bill for nothing but junk and I'm sure all that was

going home to their kids. The doctors probably have the kids on

medication for being ADHD because they can't sit still in the

classroom. I think most of these eating habits run in all races and

ethnic groups. My Filipina girlfriend is having problems with her

12 year old son. He always ate her home cooked meals and now he

turns his back on vegetables and wants burgers, fries, Cokes and

pizza, he tells her she cooks like someone from an old country and

he wants to eat like an American and grow big.

> Most of the young women I work with come in at 7am with a Coke

and donut for breakfast and most are Mothers so I'm sure they will

pass that habit right on down the line.

> It's sad to see, isn't it?

> Donna

>

> Miss Denise <cooljazzcafe wrote:

> I think that in the United States today, vegetarianism is mostly

the

> preserve of the white and middle-class. People of color and poor

people do

> not have the time to experiment with different vegetarian dishes,

as

> nutritious as they may be. They are always pressed for time, thus

prepared

> packages of food (normally not vegetarian) are the choice of the

moment.

>

> Finally, African-Americans traditionally have not had access to

fresh food

> in inner-city neighborhoods. Neither have they had a historical

familiarity

> with vegetarianism. Slaves were fed gristle, bone, and fatty

foods. But that

> being the case, the high rate of diabetes and hypertension

prevalent in the

> black population would certainly decrease with a vegetarian

diet.But I can't

> see much changing in the near future. Poor people buy bologna, not

balsamic

> vinegar.

>

> Denise

>

February 4, 2006

ReallY? I have a bottle of balsamic vinegar and it was priced at

$1.99. I haven't seen bologna go for that price and I make some pretty

cheap eats loaded with vitamins and minerals with my various bulk bin

grains and fresh produce. Doesn't bologna make about 3 or 4

sandwiches?

Marsha

, Miss Denise <cooljazzcafe

wrote:

Poor people buy bologna, not balsamic

> vinegar.

>

> Denise

>

February 5, 2006

Well, I am torn. I know animals suffer pain, and yes, animal cruelty is

important, but plants suffer pain as well, and respond to loving thoughts,

that is documented, so while we should be concerned with these things, we

need to remember that everything we eat is in a way a sacrifice to us and

our well-being. I truly do believe plants feel.

Alia

February 5, 2006

Alia,

Since this is your belief you should then maybe look into the ways of the

Jainism people. They are Buddhists who believe as you do. They will only eat the

fruit of the plant. In fact, they will only eat it after they have dropped off.

Although that will cut all root veggies out of your diet, it still leaves you

open for many fine foods. Peas, fruits, beans, grains, etc etc.

Blessings,

Chanda

-

alia robinson

Sunday, February 05, 2006 10:01 AM

Re: Being Vegetarian

Well, I am torn. I know animals suffer pain, and yes, animal cruelty is

important, but plants suffer pain as well, and respond to loving thoughts,

that is documented, so while we should be concerned with these things, we

need to remember that everything we eat is in a way a sacrifice to us and

our well-being. I truly do believe plants feel.

Alia

February 5, 2006

Alia,

There are people who refuse to eat root plants because it kills the

whole plant so they choose to eat only the fruit of plants. I once knew

a person who was a fruitarian . There are people who wear masks so that

they will not accidently enhale a tiny gnat. Extreme? Perhaps, but we

must make our own choices and do what we think best. I would like to be

totally Vegan but many cosmetics contain lanolin which I try to avoid.

Some of my clothing is wool or silk. I try to wear only cotton. Some of

my shoes and handbags are leather. I try to use cotton bags whenever I

can. Of course I never wear fur. Some of my craft projects contain

feathers as do my pillows. I never eat flesh of any kind including

clams,and other small creatures that many do not consider animals. It

is not easy but it is a begining.

Deanna

-- In , " alia robinson " <aliar4

wrote:

>

> Well, I am torn. I know animals suffer pain, and yes, animal cruelty

is

> important, but plants suffer pain as well, and respond to loving

>

February 5, 2006

This is interesting. I will look into it. I'm not really bothered by my

belief about plants. I just think it's the cycles of life, same with

carnivores for me. I respect people's beliefs, but would never preach my own

to them. I guess it comes from enduring a lot of that in my own life. I

would hope most people will eventually become vegetarian, but neither do I

push them.

Alia

-

" PuterWitch " <puterwitch

> Alia,

> Since this is your belief you should then maybe look into the ways of the

Jainism people. They are Buddhists who believe as you do. They will only eat

the fruit of the plant. In fact, they will only eat it after they have

dropped off. Although that will cut all root veggies out of your diet, it

still leaves you open for many fine foods. Peas, fruits, beans, grains, etc

etc.

March 30, 2006

Hi Audrey!

I really don't belittle meat-eaters. If anything, I go out of my way

to make them feel comfortable eating meat in front of me, bc I know if

I'm aggressive, they'll shut down to what I model or say. Often

acquaintances will say, " Sorry, " when they're about to jam some meat

into their mouths. I just shrug and say, " We each have to make our own

decisions. " But that doesn't mean I respect their decisions or that I

wouldn't love it to go away. Of course, I also don't feel the need to

tell everybody that that is what I think. I don't go around telling

meat-eaters that I think they can't develop to their full spiritual

potential. I put it in my message to explain my thinking/belief system

and why I feel sorry for meat-eaters.

I think all of my meat-eating friends would remain friends with me if

they knew I would love to ban meat. I don't think they'd expect

otherwise from me. But I'll ask two of them on Friday, when I meet

them for lunch. We discuss all kinds of issues, and we don't always

agree. But I think they have good intent, and I think they know I have

good intent, and that's what's important to us. I'm happy to say one

of these friends is trying to go vegetarian!

As a veg*n you realize that this really is a meat-eater's world. So

someone asking me to be respectful of meat-eating on a veg*n board was

just too much for me yesterday. It came on top of going to a tea where

my friend specifically arranged vegan food for me and arriving to find

out that the establishment had no knowledge of the request, which was

taken by the owner. I thought for once I wasn't going to have to be

concerned about what I was eating, and there I was with someone

serving me who didn't even know what a vegan is. Oh well.

Maybe you can think of a topic that you are black and white

on...abortion, corporal punishment, the death penalty, burning the

flag, something involving your religion...I don't know. For many,

being a veg*n isn't just a dietary choice...it involves an entire

belief system...it's just one part of an entire belief system. That's

the way it is for me and that's why I can't just accept meat-eating. I

hope that makes sense.

Anyway, I'm glad you're here. I really didn't mean to offend you. I

just wanted to explain a different perspective on meat-eating from a

vegan perspective. Being a veg*n is more complex than, " Hey, I like

animals. I don't think I'll eat them. " At least it is for me, and I

think for a lot of others...so we do get passionate about it!

Lisa

March 30, 2006

Renee, It is very difficult raising a veg*n child in a meateater's

world. Good luck with your daughter and her education. My son is only

2 so I haven't gotten to all of the stuff you're describing yet. I'm

just going to try to lead by example and by teaching empathy and

compassion...and by providing a lot of exposure to animals. Live

animals!!!

March 30, 2006

Devan, Think of it this way...what if people didn't agree with

slavery, but recognized others' choice to have slaves bc the other

people didn't see anything wrong with it. Would that make it right?

For some, the suffering of an animal is equal to the suffering of a

human, and for these individuals, the idea of meat being banned would

be cause for a new holiday! If you want to stick strictly to humans,

some religions condone the abuse of other humans, primarily women...do

we let that abuse of another human go in the name of religious tolerance?

I am soooo thankful for " militant members. " I am so thankful for the

people in PETA, who are seen as the most militant, for all the change

that comes from their in-your-face style. You say " militants, " I say

" heroes. " You said you want the militant members to think a little.

Believe me, I've thought a lot...of the suffering to animals due to

humans' selfish need for a momentary taste sensation.

Devan, you're a veggie for health reasons. Audrey isn't even a

vegetarian. So I don't think you understand yet that for some, veg*ns

is only a small part of an entire belief system.

btw, I don't think a grain ever suffered in the making of alcohol, but

millions of animals live and die in suffering bc of meateating.

ok, I'm done on this topic. Either you get it or you don't. I don't

think I can explain it any other way. Maybe the Dalai Lama can help

me: " Compassion is my religion. " That's compassion for ALL sentient

beings.

Good luck on your veggie journeys!

March 30, 2006

Thanks so much all for sharing. My jaw has been

dropped. I will not be ever the same MY 16 year old

son has been trying to be a vegan. He tried it last

year but gave up due to his surgery and muscle pain.

Now hes trying it again.

He has asked me to help him do it - it is hard, but I

am open. I work full time and I want to make meals in

30 mins and easy steps to get meals done. I go to

Trade Joe once a week.

My son does not care for peanuts and beans.

--- Lisa <lisaviafamily wrote:

> Hi Audrey!

>

> I really don't belittle meat-eaters. If anything, I

> go out of my way

> to make them feel comfortable eating meat in front

> of me, bc I know if

> I'm aggressive, they'll shut down to what I model or

> say. Often

> acquaintances will say, " Sorry, " when they're about

> to jam some meat

> into their mouths. I just shrug and say, " We each

> have to make our own

> decisions. " But that doesn't mean I respect their

> decisions or that I

> wouldn't love it to go away. Of course, I also don't

> feel the need to

> tell everybody that that is what I think. I don't go

> around telling

> meat-eaters that I think they can't develop to their

> full spiritual

> potential. I put it in my message to explain my

> thinking/belief system

> and why I feel sorry for meat-eaters.

>

> I think all of my meat-eating friends would remain

> friends with me if

> they knew I would love to ban meat. I don't think

> they'd expect

> otherwise from me. But I'll ask two of them on

> Friday, when I meet

> them for lunch. We discuss all kinds of issues, and

> we don't always

> agree. But I think they have good intent, and I

> think they know I have

> good intent, and that's what's important to us. I'm

> happy to say one

> of these friends is trying to go vegetarian!

>

> As a veg*n you realize that this really is a

> meat-eater's world. So

> someone asking me to be respectful of meat-eating on

> a veg*n board was

> just too much for me yesterday. It came on top of

> going to a tea where

> my friend specifically arranged vegan food for me

> and arriving to find

> out that the establishment had no knowledge of the

> request, which was

> taken by the owner. I thought for once I wasn't

> going to have to be

> concerned about what I was eating, and there I was

> with someone

> serving me who didn't even know what a vegan is. Oh

> well.

>

> Maybe you can think of a topic that you are black

> and white

> on...abortion, corporal punishment, the death

> penalty, burning the

> flag, something involving your religion...I don't

> know. For many,

> being a veg*n isn't just a dietary choice...it

> involves an entire

> belief system...it's just one part of an entire

> belief system. That's

> the way it is for me and that's why I can't just

> accept meat-eating. I

> hope that makes sense.

>

> Anyway, I'm glad you're here. I really didn't mean

> to offend you. I

> just wanted to explain a different perspective on

> meat-eating from a

> vegan perspective. Being a veg*n is more complex

> than, " Hey, I like

> animals. I don't think I'll eat them. " At least it

> is for me, and I

> think for a lot of others...so we do get passionate

> about it!

>

> Lisa

>

March 30, 2006

I think it has a lot to do with what your home situation is. I was a

vegetarian when I met my husband, and managed to convert him before marrying

him. Our 3 children are vegetarians, and no one cooks meat in my house.

People have brought over greasy fast food before, (we call it fats food) but

don't ask me for a plate Because we both feel the same way, it's easier

to keep our house meat-free. If we ate kosher, no one would think to tell us

not to. If we were Hindu, no one would try to 2nd guess our life choices

when they see a vegetarian cart at the check out.

We ban meat in our house, and we expect our kids to be vegetarian at least

until they leave they house. We also expect them to go to the church we pick

until then too. To me, it's the same thing. And no, if they do eat meat

before then we won't freak out, just be disappointed. My youngest are only 4

and 3 right now, they are harder to gauge, but I'd be very surprised if my

10 year just started eating meat. She knows meat is dead animals. To her

(And a lot of us) it's that simple.

I don't think anyone would call us militant, I tend to only share

information with people I think are going to be receptive. I have never even

considered trying to convert my in-laws, for example. I'm not going to

condemn meat-eaters as a group, even though deep down I think a lot of them

would be vegetarian if they could just kick the habit. But I don't find that

group as a whole, receptive to vegetarianism. At least in my neck of the

woods, they seem to be defensive. In my mind, I often wonder if it's because

they don't like the obvious pointed out: They choose to kill animals for

food even though as a society we are way beyond that. It DOES take strength

to be a vegetarian and I'm proud of our family for our decisions. And yes,

it can be very depressing to make the right choice day after day, and have

someone come along and belittle your actions. Thankfully, we don't do it for

them. We do it because we want to like the person looking back in the

mirror. We do it because we know it's right.

Jodi

On

Behalf Of Deven Vasko

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:51 PM

Re: Being vegetarian is depressing

Thank you for your post. As a parent-new to vegetarianism, the

political/moral issue are a new thing to me. Quite honestly, some of

the posts & answers to you have been a huge turn off.

Our decision to change our eating lifestyle is due to health. We

want our children to be healthy. It's a slow process for us (I'm

finding compromise works much better with my hubby than demanding

change) and I was thrilled to find a online group that had tons of

info and examples.

But, I do want more miliatant members to think a bit. Everyone has a

right to choose. Well, at least, I hope everyone lives in a country

where they have a right to choose their beliefs, eating habits and

so on.

My children have a right to choose. (Which has been one of my

husband's demands) I want them to see this lifestyle choice in a

happy light.

Baning something (say meat) is the beginning of taking everyone's

rights. Did prohibition (banning alcohol) work? Is it right to ban a

person's beliefs, religion, race? To belittle someone because they

don't think the same way as you do? Hitler did, Stalin did and the

president of my husband's country, Belarus, does.

Nor does intolerance promote a " new " idea positively.

Some meateaters are intolerant of other's views but most are not.

They are only speaking what they have been taught for generations.

It takes time and patience to teach a new thing. And I think,

vegatarianism is being seen in a positive light.

Oh, well! This is the end of the sleepy hungry pregnant lady's post.

, " audhead " <audhead wrote:

>

> I'm sorry my email rubbed you the wrong way. I didn't mean that

you

> had to agree with meateaters. I think that respecting someone's

> decision whether you agree with them or not means not belittling

> them. I think it rude of people to tell vegetarians " You don't

know

> what you're missing " or " Just try some " or they try to slip in

meat

> to their diet. That's not respecting their decision. I also

don't

> feel that telling someone that they can't develop to their full

> potential as spiritual beings as meateaters isn't respecting

them.

> You can disagree but to inflict your judgments will only

antagonize

> people. You're right that being a veg*n doesn't hurt anyone.

>

> I applaud those who report to others about the cruelty to animals

in

> the food industry, advocate vegetarian lifestyle and inform of the

> health benefits from abstaining from meat. When they are tactful

and

> respectful to others, people listen. Taking an aggressive

approach

> puts people on the defense and they close their ears, mind and

> heart.

> I appreciated what Heather wrote about being an example of good

> health and happiness. That includes sharing our delicious food

> whenever possible, i.e. at potlucks and playgroups!

>

> You said most of your best friends are meateaters and you don't

> respect that about them. Feeling sorry for them shows you're

> compassionate but I don't think they would appreciate you wanting

to

> take away their choice to eat meat or not. I wonder how many

would

> still be your friend if you could ban eating meat.

>

> I don't expect all the members of a veg*n board to respect

someone's

> choice to eat meat the same way I don't expect all meat eaters to

> respect veg*n decision not to eat meat. It would be foolish of

me.

> I'm sure there are households out there like mine where some are

> veg*ns and some aren't and they have to live in harmony. I

> to this group for that reason. I want to help my daughter with

her

> decision to be a vegetarian. When I researched this group I read

the

> the question: " Are you a parent raising a vegetarian? " and I

thought

> yes I am. I have had learned alot through this group and I that

> everyone for their input.

>

> I do realize that some come to this group to vent and says

something

> derogatory about a meateater. All these things make you

passionate

> about being vegetarians.

>

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

March 30, 2006

<<Maybe the Dalai Lama can help me: " Compassion is my religion. " That's

compassion for ALL sentient beings.>>

I think it's important to point out that the Dalai Lama is not

vegetarian...because, as he admits, he doesn't have the willpower. How's that

for humility?! He respects those who are able to maintain a vegetarian diet,

but can't himself.

And while Buddhists are vegetarians in principle, and often in fact, there is

an additional belief that comes in conflict with their vegetarianism sometimes.

If, say, a monk holds out his bowl for food, and meat is put into it....or you

go to someone's house, and they offer you meat....if you refuse the meat, what

you are saying is that your practice as a Buddhist is " better " , more " pure " ,

than the person who offered you the food. Instead, you are expected to accept

the food, no matter what it is.

(Incidentally, this problem of hospitality is why Mother Theresa refused to

eat or even drink anything in public. She knew that people would go into

crushing debt in order to have the honour of feeding her -- meat, certainly, and

other expensive items -- so she made sure everyone knows that her entire order

will not even accept a glass of water.)

Obviously, Buddhism is like any other faith: each practitioner does it

slightly differently. So some will never eat meat under any circumstance, no

matter how it makes someone else feel; some will only accept it if they haven't

been involved in the killing; some don't apply their Buddhist practice to their

diet at all.

Liz

March 30, 2006

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL - WOW!

I have been a vegetarian for over 20 yrs - I converted my husband as well -

and we have raised our children as vegetarians - they are now 11 and 16 - my son

at one point decided he needed to try a chicken nugget he spit it out before he

could swallow it - my daughter has tried clam chowder on an occassion -this is

annoying especially because we are Jewish. If we have my kids friends over they

know it's vegetarian pizza- the 1 or 2 times my inlaws have been over and have

ordered a meat pizza - it is served with paper plates and throw away knives and

forks-no leftovers allowed! We also will not allow meat to be placed on our

cooking ware or plates etc-

It is a choice that parents have to allow children to make - I would be

shocked if my kids ate red meat or white meat ever - We have brought them up

socially to understand all aspects of vegetarianism and they are proud of the

fact that they are vegetarians. It is not just what you eat it is who you are,

and as soon as they are out of the house my husband and I will become vegans!

Lauren

Jodi <me4u wrote: