Hello.......and goodbye - WAS Digest Number 732

[Guest guest]

A letter to " Laura Palmer (71) " .

 

Bravo for standing up for that in which you believe! I don't usually read

anything other than the many recipes due to the fact that I have several other

lives going on simultaneously... so I was unaware of the anti-religious campaign

here. Shame shame. Off topic too, unless I miss my bet.

 

You sound a lot like my wife and me. We too are lacto-ovo veggies and feed a

feral cat whom we " saved " and had neutered and who now has a computer chip and a

name though she is still wild. We also give to Alley Cat Allies.

 

We too eat less than healthy foods including (GASP) sugar, cheese and chocolate.

Though Sandee eats less sugar due to her diabetes. Otherwise though, we are

strict vegetarians and even try to avoid unnecessary animal by-products in

clothing etc. We aren't fanatical though.

 

Another way we are like you is in our religious beliefs. I won't go into it as

I don't think such things BELONG on a list about vegetarianism. Vegetarianism

is NOT a religion.

 

So, " Laura " , why don't you come on back from Twin Peaks and give this stinky

li'l list another try. It sure has some darned GOOD recipes on it MOST ALL THE

TIME! Yeah. Just take the good and ignore the bad.

 

I'm stickin', even if somebody calls me a name or says somethin' I don't like

cuz on the internet you can't reach me with those stones and sticks... even if

you throw REAL HARD.

 

Phil Musgrave

Kailua, Hawaii

 

 

On 2/11/04 11:17 AM, a c wrote :

** Begin Quoted Text **

>

>Hello.......and goodbye

>I joined this group almost a year ago, and admitedly only started actively

>reading the digests a couple of months ago. (bogged down by the " joys " of

>this world, couldn't deal with doing one more thing at the time)

>I was sent an invite and joined mainly because I liked the name. (I am a

>vegetarian, and the " Kitty Mama " to several feral cats....so thought it

>was fitting)

>I'm a big lurker, I don't participate much. I don't have much to add, and

>honestly I prefer to avoid contraversy and " flameage " . I want it to be

>known that I have enjoyed some things on here, I've copied off some

>recepies, had a few laughs, and enjoyed some of the deeper thoughts.

>But some stuff has just really bothered me, and the latest thing just

>plain rubbed me the wrong way.

>Now PLEASE, I'm not saying any of this to cause anger, and nothing is

>directed at any particular person. I'm just saying this because I thought

>it might be good for the regulars on here to get an idea of what some

>other " newbies " and " lurkers " might be taking note of and feeling

>uncomfortable about.

>The first thing that I noticed was so many people seem to be vegan on

>here. That is NOT a bad thing, I just wasn't expecting it as it isn't

>called " The Feral Vegan " . LOL What bothers me about it, is many of the

>posts about it come across more that people who still eat dairy and milk

>should be ashamed, and that they are not as caring about the animals as

>vegans are.

>I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, in a perfect world I would be total vegan, or

>it would be ok to eat dairy and eggs because all animals would be

>respected and treated humanely. But it isn't a perfect world, by far, and

>I am just doing the best that I can. I don't eat or wear flesh, and I am

>proud of that.

>Speaking of eating choices leads me to the next thing and that is the

>healthy factor. Again, I'm not saying that eating healthy is a negative

>thing, far from it, but all vegetarians are not totaly healthy eaters.

>So after reading alot of the posts, not only am I ashamed that I eat

>cheese, but on my Papa John's pizza?!?!?! I feel like a practical

>heathen! And if I go to Krispy Kreme one more time, surely I will burn in

>hell. (LOL)

>Hell....hummm, brings me to my next problem, and the one that is making me

>not want to come back. What is up with the slamming of God and the Bible????

>I just wanted the whole topic to go away, and it did pretty well, but now

>that it came up again, I just can't keep quite.

>I have no problem what-so-ever of people with different beliefs. I really

>can't since my beliefs don't really fit in anywhere traditonal or other to

>be honest (if you care to know, my foundation is in John 3:16, my roots

>are in Christianity, but I also have greatly varying beliefs, including in

>The Craft, and am still working on how that all fits together for me)

>I just want to be clear that I am not talking about quotes from the

>druids, or signing off with Blessed Be, I'm talking about attacking God

>and the Bible simply because you don't believe in it. Where is the

>consideration for others, where is the tact???? Wouldn't it be just as

>easy, and take far less chance in making someone....well feel like I do,

>to just say that you don't believe in that, and then be kind about it?

>Why is it neccessary to be so vicious about it?

>Personally I look forward to getting to Heaven, where the lion will lay

>with the lamb, and every creature will eat vegetation. Wether you believe

>in God or not, you think you could have some respect for that.

>I'm sorry this is so long, it just kind of built up and then poured out.

>I also want to apologize if I offended anyone, in any way. As I said

>earlier it was not my intent, I only wanted to shed some light on the way

>things might be taken.

>Also I will admitt that prehaps with some things I have been too sensetive

>and taking them too hard/personal (easy to do when your existance kind of

>sucks right now)

>Maybe I will try coming back at another time, see if things have changed,

>or if I can just view them differently.

>I still believe I made some good points, and I feel better that I at least

>tried to stand up for God a bit. (oh, and other junk food loving

>vegetarians... ;-) )

>Take Care and Best Wishes,

>~~~A >^..^<

>

** End of Quoted Text **

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear " Laura Palmer " and " Phil Musgrave "

What wonderful letters. Thank you for taking the time to write them, ditto

on every word.

 

Phil Musgrave <muskrat wrote:

A letter to " Laura Palmer (71) " .

 

Bravo for standing up for that in which you believe! I don't usually read

anything other than the many recipes due to the fact that I have several other

lives going on simultaneously... so I was unaware of the anti-religious campaign

here. Shame shame. Off topic too, unless I miss my bet.

 

You sound a lot like my wife and me. We too are lacto-ovo veggies and feed a

feral cat whom we " saved " and had neutered and who now has a computer chip and a

name though she is still wild. We also give to Alley Cat Allies.

 

We too eat less than healthy foods including (GASP) sugar, cheese and chocolate.

Though Sandee eats less sugar due to her diabetes. Otherwise though, we are

strict vegetarians and even try to avoid unnecessary animal by-products in

clothing etc. We aren't fanatical though.

 

Another way we are like you is in our religious beliefs. I won't go into it as

I don't think such things BELONG on a list about vegetarianism. Vegetarianism

is NOT a religion.

 

So, " Laura " , why don't you come on back from Twin Peaks and give this stinky

li'l list another try. It sure has some darned GOOD recipes on it MOST ALL THE

TIME! Yeah. Just take the good and ignore the bad.

 

I'm stickin', even if somebody calls me a name or says somethin' I don't like

cuz on the internet you can't reach me with those stones and sticks... even if

you throw REAL HARD.

 

Phil Musgrave

Kailua, Hawaii

 

 

On 2/11/04 11:17 AM, a c wrote :

** Begin Quoted Text **

>

>Hello.......and goodbye

>I joined this group almost a year ago, and admitedly only started actively

>reading the digests a couple of months ago. (bogged down by the " joys " of

>this world, couldn't deal with doing one more thing at the time)

>I was sent an invite and joined mainly because I liked the name. (I am a

>vegetarian, and the " Kitty Mama " to several feral cats....so thought it

>was fitting)

>I'm a big lurker, I don't participate much. I don't have much to add, and

>honestly I prefer to avoid contraversy and " flameage " . I want it to be

>known that I have enjoyed some things on here, I've copied off some

>recepies, had a few laughs, and enjoyed some of the deeper thoughts.

>But some stuff has just really bothered me, and the latest thing just

>plain rubbed me the wrong way.

>Now PLEASE, I'm not saying any of this to cause anger, and nothing is

>directed at any particular person. I'm just saying this because I thought

>it might be good for the regulars on here to get an idea of what some

>other " newbies " and " lurkers " might be taking note of and feeling

>uncomfortable about.

>The first thing that I noticed was so many people seem to be vegan on

>here. That is NOT a bad thing, I just wasn't expecting it as it isn't

>called " The Feral Vegan " . LOL What bothers me about it, is many of the

>posts about it come across more that people who still eat dairy and milk

>should be ashamed, and that they are not as caring about the animals as

>vegans are.

>I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, in a perfect world I would be total vegan, or

>it would be ok to eat dairy and eggs because all animals would be

>respected and treated humanely. But it isn't a perfect world, by far, and

>I am just doing the best that I can. I don't eat or wear flesh, and I am

>proud of that.

>Speaking of eating choices leads me to the next thing and that is the

>healthy factor. Again, I'm not saying that eating healthy is a negative

>thing, far from it, but all vegetarians are not totaly healthy eaters.

>So after reading alot of the posts, not only am I ashamed that I eat

>cheese, but on my Papa John's pizza?!?!?! I feel like a practical

>heathen! And if I go to Krispy Kreme one more time, surely I will burn in

>hell. (LOL)

>Hell....hummm, brings me to my next problem, and the one that is making me

>not want to come back. What is up with the slamming of God and the Bible????

>I just wanted the whole topic to go away, and it did pretty well, but now

>that it came up again, I just can't keep quite.

>I have no problem what-so-ever of people with different beliefs. I really

>can't since my beliefs don't really fit in anywhere traditonal or other to

>be honest (if you care to know, my foundation is in John 3:16, my roots

>are in Christianity, but I also have greatly varying beliefs, including in

>The Craft, and am still working on how that all fits together for me)

>I just want to be clear that I am not talking about quotes from the

>druids, or signing off with Blessed Be, I'm talking about attacking God

>and the Bible simply because you don't believe in it. Where is the

>consideration for others, where is the tact???? Wouldn't it be just as

>easy, and take far less chance in making someone....well feel like I do,

>to just say that you don't believe in that, and then be kind about it?

>Why is it neccessary to be so vicious about it?

>Personally I look forward to getting to Heaven, where the lion will lay

>with the lamb, and every creature will eat vegetation. Wether you believe

>in God or not, you think you could have some respect for that.

>I'm sorry this is so long, it just kind of built up and then poured out.

>I also want to apologize if I offended anyone, in any way. As I said

>earlier it was not my intent, I only wanted to shed some light on the way

>things might be taken.

>Also I will admitt that prehaps with some things I have been too sensetive

>and taking them too hard/personal (easy to do when your existance kind of

>sucks right now)

>Maybe I will try coming back at another time, see if things have changed,

>or if I can just view them differently.

>I still believe I made some good points, and I feel better that I at least

>tried to stand up for God a bit. (oh, and other junk food loving

>vegetarians... ;-) )

>Take Care and Best Wishes,

>~~~A >^..^<

>

** End of Quoted Text **

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

As far as the vegan issue goes, no one on here ever said lacto-ovos

should feel guilty or somehow inferior to vegans. When someone asks

what are the ethical arguments against eating dairy or eggs, we tell

them and if they choose to feel guilty about it, how is that the

fault of every vegan? If you agree their are bad things about dairy

or eggs but don't feel ready to give it up it doesn't make you a

horrible person. I'll admit being strict vegan can be a pain; You

have to read and re-read ingredients and search out substitutes if

there is a lacto-ovo recipe you want to veganize.

 

Most of the religious discussion was at least related to how various

religions either argue for or against vegetarianism, so it wasn't

like it was irrelevant to our forum. I agree that we should refrain

from debates on the pros and cons of various religions. I don't

think anyone was intending to do that. The religious members need to

understand that the atheists get every bit as tired of hearing " I

believe in God. I'm going to heaven, God loves you, etc. " as

religious people have of hearing " I don't believe in God or the

bible " etc. It goes both ways, and to claim that all of the

religious people who have posted have been completely respectful of

the non-religious is just plain hypocrisy.