B.K. pretty shameful

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Vegan.com Readers Respond to BK Veggie

Posted: March 24, 2002

 

 

I was caught totally by surprise by the kinds of responses I've

received for coming out in support of the BK Veggie. After posting my

articles, I had anticipated a visit from the first vegan lynch mob.

But almost without exception, the emails I've received were strongly

supportive. In reading these emails, I thought that many of them

contained ideas and experiences that deserve to be shared with

Vegan.com readers. So I've reprinted these emails below--including

the one flame I received, for the sake of completeness.

I really need to get back to book writing, and I'll also be doing a

few New England speaking dates in a couple weeks. So it will probably

be a while before I add any further coverage of the BK Veggie.

 

 

Erik,

 

Thank you for your research on the BK Veggie.

 

Although you may be addressing this issue on the update to your

article, I thought you might like to know my experience.

 

I was heartened to ready in your article that Burger King

establishments would cook the patty in the microwave upon request,

especially that " all franchises have been asked to make this option

available for vegetarians who request it. " But when I went to a

Burger King here in Richmond, Virginia, they refused to do that. The

manager claimed that since the patty was frozen solid it would take

over an hour to cook in the microwave. Sounded like a load of huey to

me. So I decided to go to some others to see if I could get it

elsewhere.

 

I went to a total of five (5) Burger King restaurants in the Richmond

area and not one of them was willing to do this for me. Their reasons

ranged from none to health department regulations to the patty coming

out like mush. Even after pressing, none of them would do it. One

manager claimed she would lose her license if the health department

found out.

 

Anyway, I'm a little dissapointed. Is there an email address or a

phone number that you have that I could call to find out what might

be going on? I would like to try to get to the bottom of this, at

least to let other people in my organization know.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

M.O.

 

I've written an article on how to handle this situation. - Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Dear Erik:

 

A small group of vegan activists have opened a 100% vegan delicious

restaurant in Ocean Beach, California called Eatopia....we've

sacrificed so much its not possible to describe but its been the most

gratifying experience.

 

We're open every day from 10am to 8pm and are actually running in the

Black...so we can now demonstrate to the financial/business community

that a vegan fast food restaurant is financially viable as well as a

moral/environmental imperative.

 

Yes, I support your efforts for BK Veggie Burger.....but it would be

even better if you could also let folks know that there is a

successful vegan fast food restaurant which seeks to expand and open

a unit(s) in every city in every country soon.

 

and of course, to make this happen, we need support of all

types.....primarily financial.....

 

with extreme gratitude.

 

Mitch C. Wallis, for eatopia

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Erik- I read vegan.com daily and though i've always agreed with the

opinions expressed on it, I feel that I've never agreed with anything

more than your recent article re: the support the vegan community

should give to the BK Veggie burger.

 

I'm what I consider a 90% vegan in that i occasionly eat some organic

yogurt or some non vegan cookies a friend may have baked. As such,

I'd eat the BK burger without a second thought. However i know for

many people this is not the case ( and i fully respect their

choice). I do believe the purchasing and support of this new

product will help relieve much suffering though and I do not believe

it's success is pre-assured ). One last option you don't bring up is

that a stricter vegan than I could simply order the burger without

the bun and mayo. I understand BK fries are vegan so they could have

some of those to " fill out " the meal.

 

I hope that the Veg burger is successful enough to sprout more

products. Perhaps Vegan " chicken " nuggets or a vegan " chicken "

sandwich. It may take a while, but I can always hope!

 

M.G.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Erik:

 

I am so glad you changed your position on the BK Veggie Burger.

Frankly, I was astounded by the original article and wondered why

such a trival amount of butter would deter you from eating a product

that was so very important to animal liberation. Clearly this burger

has the potential to change the industry standard and that equals

countless animal lives spared. I enjoyed reading your new thoughts as

well as your official taste test. My husband and I plan to go to

Burger King this weekend (the first time in 14 years!) and try one

ourselves.

 

I'd really love to send a letter or e-mail of support to Burger King.

They are leading the way and deserve our appreciation. Do you have an

e-mail or address of the national customer service office you could

share?

 

J.Y.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hello Erik,

 

 

 

I am writing to let you know I appreciate your frank and genuine

consideration of the BK Veggie issue. I agree that the hubris of

individuals can hinder the overall effort of a positive force or

movement. History is full of examples of this phenomenon. Your

article has moved me to write.

 

Another major issue that must be considered regarding the purchase of

the BK Veggie is the record and inherent nature of fast food chains

such as Burger King and McDonalds. Is it worth supporting a

corporation and an industry that has hurt its workers, animals,

children and our environment for so many years? I don't mean to

attack your position. I respect you and your work very much; however,

I feel the need to make this point.

 

I understand that the Burger Kings of the world are not going to

disappear and I believe in their right to exist. I also know that

when it comes to convenient options for vegetarians that the BK

Veggie is a big leap forward.

 

The bottom line for me is that my dollars as a consumer are powerful,

therefore, whenever possible, I won't spend money at a company I

cannot abide by.

 

I am certainly not trying to judge or condemn you or your stance. I

just want to add my voice to mix. Thanks for listening.

 

Sincerely, Matthias

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Thanks for the effort you put into arriving at your position. Such

things are seldom easy, but are easily criticized by others. You

obviously gave it much thought, and I appreciate your position.

 

D.W.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hi Erik,

 

We totally agree with you about the new burger. There is a major

problem though. When I called the local Burger King to find if they

would micro wave the patty, the person I talked to asked her boss,

and amid much laughter in the background, said they would not do it.

 

I find two problems here. One, very poor communications from Burger

King to their franchises. Two, what I call the " MEAT MINDSET " . When

we enter a new restaurant and look at the menu, if we see almost

exclusively meat and dairy, we leave, because there's a good chance

they won't understand our needs.

 

We agree that this is a great opportunity, but right now I have a

very low comfort factor.

 

C.Q., Milwaukee Area Resources for Vegetarianism

 

 

 

I notified Burger King about this franchise. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hey Erik,

 

 

 

First I want to compliment you on your series of BK articles,

especially having the courage to change your mind about the

Veggieburger. You kick ass, and I'm telling all my friends to go to

Burger King for all their fast food needs instead of McDonald's or

Jared's Evil Empire (aka Subway).

 

But there's a problem. I don't think these " microwave " instructions

are being disseminated at all. I just went to BK for lunch and tried

to ask them to microwave the burger and got this totally

uncomprehending look. She went and got the shift boss, who explained

to me that there was no way they could microwave it because it

wouldn't cook. I said there were instructions specifically saying

that the burger could be microwaved. She said they couldn't do that.

I asked if she could just do it anyway. She said she couldn't because

it had to be broiled. We just were not speaking the same language. At

that point I should have tried to get the manager, but I was really

in a hurry and I had brought a sack lunch anyway... I do plan to try

again tonight, when there aren't 20 people in line behind me, and

when I have a clear explanation planned out... I am just worried that

it will be impossible for vegetarians to order this burger unless

they are EXTREMELY assertive and willing to put up with a lot of

sighing and eye-rolling... This could really hurt the Veggieburger's

sales and long-term future, which scares me.

 

I'll let you know how further attempts turn out.

 

EV

 

 

 

I notified Burger King about this franchise. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Dear Erik,

 

I'm writing to congratulate you on your stance regarding Burger

King's new product. It's difficult for us to even consider letting

animal by-products, even minute quantities pass your lips, but it is

even more important to remember why we are vegans in the first place.

 

If this burger succeeds, if more and more people order it, if it

never falls off the menu, it will be a colossal advance for the

animal rights movement. McDonald's will follow, as will Wendy's. The

thousands of lives saved will outweigh our personal discomfort at

eating it.

 

By and by, if we make this product a success, Burger KIng can be

successfully persuaded to totally veganize its veggieburger.

 

I had initially planned never to enter a fast food restaurant again.

The smell, the almost palpable sense of flesh, and the callousness

repell me. But, upon reflection, I have decided that the principle

must needs be sacrified in the name of kindness.

 

I will be having dinner at Burger King tomorrow, and I encourage all

vegans to do the same.

 

NC

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hi Erik-

 

I have to disagree with your latest position on the BK Veggie Burger.

We vegans are such a minority of any market that is makes no

difference to the survival of the burger if we buy them every day or

not. In order for this product to succeed it must be purchased by

meat eaters - and the meat eaters must purchase many of them.

 

I hope the burger does succeed. I hope every vegetarian and meat

eater on the planet orders one on their road to veganism. But I think

we vegans do the animals a great disservice - it is a betrayal,

actually - if we buy this product, since it is stained with the

misery and suffering of cows. Since it does not matter to the

survival of this burger whether vegans buy them or not, I will choose

to honor the animals by not willfully supporting a product that made

so many of them suffer.

 

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion of my thoughts on the

matter.

 

JM

 

 

 

Here's my opinion. Even if every vegan in the country switched to

eating a diet solely of BK Veggies, the amount of dairy products

consumed in the US wouldn't increase by even one one-hundredth of a

percent. Yet if this product succeeds, we're going to see the amount

of meat consumed in this country drop significantly. The positive

effects will be too widespread to begin to calculate. Nonvegetarians

who try the BK Veggie and like it will be increasingly likely to

order other meatless meals elsewhere. Little kids will get a chance

to eat a meatless meal when their parents take them out for fast

food. If the BK Veggie succeeds, it will not instantly cause the

abolition of slaughterhouses everywhere. But it will be the greatest

victory the movement has ever won. Supporting this product should not

be considered a betrayal of farm animals. Quite the opposite. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hi, Erik!

 

I really liked your article on why we must do all we can to make sure

that the BK veggieburger succeeds. I couldn't agree more. I'm a

pragmatist and not an aesthetic. I know the world will never be

perfect for me, and that's unimportant. What I want is that the world

is better for the animals. And, as you so eloquently pointed out, the

more humans we can sell alternatives to, the fewer animals will

suffer. Also, if we want more people to become vegetarian or vegan,

they must have easy, tasty alternatives. Few of the average, everyday

people (e.g., mothers with fulltime jobs and hungry children, etc.)

can be expected to go to great lengths to lessen animal suffering.

 

In fact, I'm a bit opposed to going into animal suffering unless I

can also offer alternatives that are a) similar to what they're

eating already, and b) easy to acquire and prepare. Otherwise, I

think they just become desensitized to the problem, and it's a net

loss for the animals.

 

I'm pushing the BK veggieburgers, too (had my second one today).

 

S.R.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

During your conversations with Burger King, did they say that they

are considering changing to a dairy-free bun eventually?

 

E.J.

 

They haven't announced these plans as of yet, but I'd be shocked if

this product succeeds and we don't get a vegan bun eventually. --Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hi Erik...We were waiting to hear what your final thoughts on the

veggieburger were, because we had an upcoming trip and wanted to have

another vegan opinion on the new burger before we tried it on the

road. Well, we are on the road now and just tried our FIRST

veggieburger at BK.....we were in a small coastal town in SC and were

in a hurry.....so we pulled into the BK....walked in and ordered our

burgers.....well, they weren't sure what we were talking about and

the female manager came out and said they had the veggieburgers. We

ordered 2 without mayo and to be microwaved....the manager said it

will take a long time if we microwave them because they come right

out of the freezer.....I told her I knew they were frozen and they

should only take a minute or less, she said they were required to

cook them until they reached a certain temperature......I told her in

the nicest way that wasn't necessary, she said it was the BK

policy.so they cooked it up.....it was okay, but way over microwaved

and tough......if it was the first one I had ever had I wouldn't have

another, but I will try them especially when we travel and that is

very often!!!!! Thanks for putting out the good words!!!!! Do you

have an address for BK, I would like to write them!!!!

 

 

 

S.H.

 

Again, here' s my article on how to handle this situation. - Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Your support of Murder King is not logically consistent. How can you

possibly eat in a place that stinks of charring flesh? This smells of

corporate corruption. No animal murdering carnivore is going to eat

this so-called vegiburger - MK will only either

 

a) gain sales (with which to finance more death)

 

b) say it tried to offer a " vegetarian " product and failed (Good!)

 

or

 

c) use this as a means to further undermine the vegan " cause "

 

You are obviously willing participants in this corporate sham. Why

would anyone with even the slightest pretension of supporting animal

rights want to eat in one of these fast food ( " we cook in less time

than the animal takes to die! " ) torture chambers?

 

Sell outs

 

C.P.

 

 

 

And here I was, thinking all this time that people got paid when they

sold out. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Erik - As a long-time vegetarian and 2-year vegan, I've been an avid

reader of your website, and bought your book as soon as it came out.

I've always appreciated your work, but have never gone through

the " trouble " of letting you know. But your latest article on the BK

Veggie Burger is by far the best piece I have seen, and I want to

congratulate you on your ability to see the broad picture, and

express my unconditional support in this effort. Fundamentalist views

and judgmental attitudes have hurt the cause in the past, and I am

glad to see that more people are able to look beyond the narrow 100%

goal. I hope that your efforts will be supported broadly, and that

you will continue to be a voice of reason. Thank you!

 

M.B.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Just a note to say I think Erik's logic is sound and sensible. If

this product is a success then not only will it help the causes so

dear to our hearts, but will maybe give the company an incentive to

go all the way and perhaps modify future recipes and eventually make

it 100% " the real thing " . Living as I do in England, we have not as

yet been offered this option (and ideological crisis) to deal with,

but if we are, I shall take exactly the same position as Erik!

 

D.G.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Erik,

 

Thanks for your recent coverage of the BK Veggie. After reading your

first article, I, too, was torn by some of the same issues that must

have been going through your head as you contemplated the second

article. I'm not sure if the day has come where I can walk into a

Burger King and order a veggie burger for myself. Its an issue I'll

continuing wrestling for at least a little while. One of my concerns

is that if the BK Veggie does flop, then my money has essentially

gone to supporting animal agriculture. I'm just not sure if the

vegan population, through its purchasing power, can make a difference

as to whether this product succeeds or fails. I think its the

vegetarian and semi-vegetarian population upon which this product

will succeed or fail, and I think Burger King may have unfortunately

ignored vegan concerns because they realize that. This said, I

admire your courage for taking a stand in support of the BK Veggie in

the vegan community.

 

I'm sure you've received a flood of such emails, so thanks for

reading, and thanks for you continuing work on behalf of animals,

 

J.B.

 

If the BK Veggie flops, Burger King would have lost money on the

deal. So I don't think this is a great concern. --Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

After reading your articles, i went out and bought the BK Veggie

minus mayo. although i am vegan, i understand that it will help more

animals if i support a vegan burger, with a small amount of dairy in

the bun, than if i didnt support it at all because of the dairy and

contributed to the burger being wiped from the menu and replaced by

an entirely nonvegan food.

 

The veggie burger was delicious, they microwaved it for me upon

request. im encouraging all of my friends to buy it. even though they

aren't all vegan they agreed to try it. I hope they like it as much

as i do.

 

Thank you for informing me about this.

 

M.C.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

I just read Erik's article of Veggie burgers, and I have to say I

agree with him. I'm marching to a Burger King tomorrow and every

Sunday from now on.

 

D.D.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

Hello, I've been vegan now for about 2 years and I was really

disappointed when I found out through your site that the buns

contained natural and artificial dairy. I talked to a couple of my

vegan friends who refused to buy a product from burger king. Im not

going to try and talk them into buying it. I saw it originally as you

do, a chance to make a deffinate change in the fast food industry. On

the first two days I bought 5 of the veggie patties all of the time

without buns and microwaved. The only charged me 54 cents for just

the patty. The only question I have now is.. are they ringing the

patty up differently if I get it without the bun? Maybe as a meat

patty? Would it be best for me to order the whole deal and just

accept the dairy bun? I don't know which is the best action to take

but I hope this product becomes a great success.

 

J.N.

 

You're removing a veggie patty from inventory, and they'll have to

order more. In other words, you're supporting the BK Veggie by making

this choice. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

I'm with you on this Burger King veggie burger. I will make a point

of supporting the veggie burger despite the miniscule dairy in the

bun. I live in Clarkston, Michigan and will ask my friends to support

this change as well. I think it is ok in light of the big picture.

 

L.B.

 

 

 

***

 

 

 

What about ordering the BK veggie burger without the bun. It's bad

enough to be taking away money that could be spent at struggling veg

restaurants and supporting a restaurant that supports cruelty and

death. At least this way you are not purchasing animal products. Less

bread is a good thing anyway and if you are buying the burger to

further the cause then take out the cruelty.

 

AF

 

 

 

Sure, doing it this way still supports the product. -- Erik

 

 

 

***

 

Hi, Erik!

 

While searching the internet for info on the BK VEGGIE, I came upon

your article. I agree with you and PETA, etc. that it is of utmost

importance that the veggie burger succeeds! However, I do try to be

as " pure " as possible, so I wouldn't knowingly eat something

containing even a miniscule amount of nonvegan ingredient. My plan to

remain " pure " while still supporting the veggie burger is this: I

will order the burgers, bring them home, and feed the buns to our

dogs! (Sometimes we vegans have to be a little bit creative, eh?!)

 

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that at least two " hard-line,

purist " vegans support you in your endorsement of this nonvegan

product.

 

LBB

 

 

 

 

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