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B " H

 

LOL!! I could write VOLUMES on that!!! (it's not nosey, BTW ;-) I've

been vegetarian for 25 years and vegan for 13 -- I've heard it all....

 

I'll give you some highlights:

 

1) my brother had a friend from HS who he " learned " with ( " learning "

in the Orthodox Jewish sense means they sit together, usually just

two of them, and learn Talmud together -- discussing, sometimes

arguing, the minutiae of these things. Mind you, there are people

within the more extreme Orthodox sects who won't permit women to

learn Talmud at all.... I'm not there ;-) -- I have learned Talmud

whenever I get the chance...). I went over there with him a few times

(he would pick me up at college and we'd go home together after he

learned). I would usually go and sit in the kitchen and talk to his

wife (who is the loveliest woman -- very sweet -- don't know what HE

ever did to deserve her!) -- Anyway, this was right around when I was

relatively new to being vegetarian. So we were talking and somehow we

got to talking about vegetarianism. Well, her husband came in after

he and my brother were done and said " I don't want you spreading any

of your vegetarian ideas [i think he used a less than complimentary

word for idea] to my son [who was all of 6 months old at the time]! "

 

2) Just this week, I had a conversation with someone.... This week

(or actually, today is the 9th day -- ok, quick lesson in Judaism ;-)

ok, how can I make this quick??????

 

About 2000 years ago (in the year 70 of the common era) the Holy

Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Besides the Temple,

they burned the entire city. It was a horribly devestating war -- I

forget the figures of dead, but it was in the 100 thousands (or

more). The people who survived were mostly sold into slavery in Rome.

This happened on the 9th of the Hebrew month of Av (today's date).

Anyway, the 8 days before this (from the first day, also known

as " Rosh Chodesh " -- the head of the month -- kind of a mini-holiday

every month) are called " the 9 days " and they have certain levels of

mourning (there is also a 3 week period that includes this 9 days --

the previous 13 days have a lesser level of mourning and they begin

with a minor fast -- a sun-up to sundown fast), part of the extra

mourning level is to not eat meat (except of Shabbat -- the Sabbath).

So the local Kosher Chinese restaurant had what they called a " 9 days

menu " (for those of you who live in Jewish areas and saw that sign

and didn't know what it meant, now you do ;-) -- mind you, fish is

not considered meat, so many of the restaurants jack up the fish

dishes. But the Chinese Restaurant, thank goodness (and maybe partly

from my influence ;-) had a LOT of vegetarian (with eggs -- no dairy

ever in a kosher meat restaurant) and vegan dishes (they made me

fried rice the other day without the eggs that is generally part of

it).

 

Anyway, to the story.... The manager of the restaurant asked me about

why I was vegan. (He was outside smoking a ciggy when I left.) So I

told him and we got into a conversation about it....

 

A couple days later (Tuesday), my parents and I took my sister and 5

of her 7 girls (the older two are away right now -- I miss them SO

much) -- well, my parents paid ;-) And, as I walked in, the manager

started with me.... " I talked to my Rabbi about what you said and he

said you can't be vegatarian... " <eyes going into the back of my

head> .... obviously, his Rabbi isn't up on the " newest " laws

(Maimonides, who lived in the 12th and 13th Centuries) makes it quite

clear in his halachic (Jewish legal) writings that it is TOTALLY

permissable to be a vegatarian (or even a vegan).

 

Actually, I point out to them certain verses in the Torah (aka the

Jewish bible) -- in Genesis 1:29, it says: [my translation] " And G-d

said 'Behold [or 'here'] I have given to you [plural you] all the

grasses that grow of seeds that are on the face of all the earth and

all the trees that have on them tree-fruit that grow of seeds, for

you they will be as food. " -- no mention of meat, dairy, eggs, etc.

Later on, after the flood, in Genesis 9:2-3, G-d says " and your fear

[this is, fear of you] and your dread will be on all the animals of

the earth and all the birds of the heavens and all that will roam on

the land and all the fish of the sea in your hands I have given. And

all that roam that live to you they will be as food as the green

grass I have given you everything. " -- this is a later concession to

human weakness.

 

In Deutoronomy, 12:15 it says: " just in all the desires of your soul

you will bring offerings and eat the meat as the blessing of the L-rd

your G-d gave to you in all your gates [borders] the impure and the

pure like the dear and the hart. " -- Basically, the word used for

desire is one that really points to this being a very strong desire,

something that comes from the depths of your soul. Obviously, if I

can go 25 years without meat, I don't have this sort of craving. So,

as far as I'm concerned, I can't justify eating meat since I don't

fulfill the requirement of having a craving from the depths of my

soul.

 

But I have to tell you. I have encountered people who think I'm nuts

for being vegetarian, people don't understand why I " deprive " myself,

but the only place I have encountered outright hostility is in the

Orthodox community.

 

As a matter of fact, I belong to a list where Torah subjects are

discussed and one woman from the list contacted me off list and told

me what a horrible sinner I was and how I was not only a sinner but

even worse -- someone who made others sin -- because I was a

vegatarian. Nothing I said could get her off my back until I finally

said to her, " yes, yes! you've convinced me! I'm going out to eat

some seared flesh to show G-d how much I love him!!! "

 

Many years ago, I decided that I can't make my decisions about what

is right to do in life based on what other people do. IOW, just

because I have encountered hostility in the Orthodox community

doesn't mean I'll stop being Orthdox ;-)

 

Debbie

 

 

 

 

Hi Debbie / Jojo

 

'Scuse me being nosey, but I have to ask....

 

Do either of you have any problems amongst the Jewish community for

being vegan? The reason I ask is that from the perspective of a

gentile interested in all religions, there seems to be a few things

in Jewish scripture / lore (whatever) that I would have thought

vegans would have been unable to stick to. I'm guessing that it's

probably only ultra-Orthodox Jews who stick to every bit of minutia,

but I just wondered if it did make it difficult.

 

BB

Peter