VegCaps and the definition of vegetarianism/veganism

[Guest guest]

The easy part: There is an alternative to gelatin(e) - VegCaps. They

can be ordered online, and many herbal supplements come in them now.

Even if you decide you need supplemental fish oil, no reason to have

to be part of the harm to our large brain ruminant friends if

something like VegCaps will work.

 

The hard part: I think we need alternative definitions of

vegetarianism and veganism that will help advance the movement

quicker and bring forth all the beneficial changes that will occur

when more and more people adopt a more plant-based diet. When

vegetarians and vegans seem to nitpick over things like fish oil, it

appears to me that we scare people off who would otherwise seek our

support in their moves towards a more plant-based diet. I think

mathematically 10 people becoming vegan or vegetarian except for the

consumption of fish for fish oil is a farther advance of veganism or

vegetarianism than 5 people becoming more strictly vegan or

vegetarian.

 

Part of the problem is we're products of our culture, which has

emphasized two value logic for thousands of years. If you're not

pure, then you're sinful and going to hell. Way back in Jesus' day,

the priests of the Temple would nitpick on minor breadcrumb sins and

require so many animals be brought to sacrifice. This became a

corrupt system, with the priests getting kickbacks from the animal

sellers right there in the Temple. Jesus' rebellion against this

corruption, including chasing the sellers of animals from the

Temple, feeding the masses fruit and bread, and calling for

compassion by quoting Hosea 6:6, " I desire mercy, not the killing of

animals " - this rebellion led the priests to conspire to have him

killed. Despite all that Jesus did to oppose nitpicking and the

killing of animals, and to promote vegetarianism, the Christian

church adopted the nitpicking of the priests of the Temple and,

under Constantine especially, violently persecuted the vegetarians,

so deeply ingrained was the two value logic way of thinking even

then. This historical example shows another way that such a way of

thinking works against the advance of vegetarianism and veganism.

 

Two value logic is part of Aristotle's system of logic, but even he

had doubts about whether two value logic was valid for more than a

small fraction of reality. There are multi-value logical systems,

including " fuzzy logic " in which there is an infinitesimally shaded

gray scale between absolute yes and absolute no. An example of a

situation which defies two value logic, yet is describable by fuzzy

logic: First a try at description and deduction with two value

logic: One grain of sand is not a heap. Two grains of sand are a

heap. And so on. The logical conclusion is that so many billions of

grains of sand are not a heap, yet if you look at it, it is clearly

something of a heap. If you start with that as a heap, take away one

grain of sand, is it still a heap? Clearly yes. Take away another,

and it's still a heap. Again and again, it is still a heap again and

again. Down to ten grains of sand? Oops, where did it stop being a

heap?

 

Now the situation in fuzzy logic terms: Zero grains of sand is

absolutely not a heap. One grain of sand is the beginning of a heap,

and two are getting closer to a heap. 100 grains of sand is

about .001% of a heap, and a million grains of sand are about 3% a

heap, 93% not a heap. Perhaps our concept of a " heap " is idealistic

and there is no absolute heap, but our so many billions of grains of

sand are 99% a heap and just 1% short of matching our idealic heap.

 

The hard truth is that our concept of veganism is idealistic. There

is no way yet on earth to be 100% vegan. I'm eating mung bean

threads with arame and pepitas. Both the seed foods require

displacement of habitat, tilling of soil despite the animal life in

it, and fertilizing of the flowers by bees. Agriculture can be

veganic with growers becoming very intimate with the land and

processes that produce food, but can it ever be 100% vegan? It's

clear to me that it cannot. I cannot be 100% vegan. I am about 99%

vegan, and I believe that veganism is the answer to so many problems

in our world. Veganism is a valid concept, just as democracy is a

valid concept, but both terms are idealistic and I'm afraid that

both terms have been used in ways that abuse other people and

advance the opposite of what they're about. I remember when Jean

Kirkpatrick, the US ambassador to the UN under the Ronald Wilson

Reagan (6-6-6 letters), tried to claim that the authoritarian

governments that the US supported in Latin America, death squads and

all, were more democratic than the " totalitarian " governments of the

Soviet block. That clearly absurd way of thinking let thousands of

people get tortured, raped, assassinated, and massacred, clearly not

advancing democracy in those countries, unless you want to give it

credit for causing a democratic groundswell against those

governments. Again, I don't think we advance veganism or

vegetarianism by negative nitpicking about relatively minor issues.

 

Instead, let's praise our friends the closer they come to being

vegan or vegetarian. Embrace them, help them find their way. Let's

unfold the new paradigm together. I the 99% vegan will love, kiss,

share and dance with the person who does fish oil, but is otherwise

as vegan as I am, thus about 96% vegan, and the person who does

dairy, but is otherwise as vegan, thus about 94% vegan. They are far

advanced from the people on the standard American diet, and I think

Gaia will feel some relief from their efforts. Let's make becoming

vegan or vegetarian fun, and more people will join us.

 

, Piers Clement

<piers_clement@p...> wrote:

> Karen wrote:

>

> > Amen, Pat. Thanks for the clarification, especially concerning

the

> > value of all lives.

>

> Yes thanks Pat, I think it's important we keep a united front on

this

> otherwise we will be swiftly assailed by well-meaning people who

want to

> provide us with fish with every meal (as happens to me from time

to time).

>

> The gelatine is a tricky one though - agreed we are " consuming "

the capsules

> but not really as food or even medicine, they're only there to

hold the rest

> of the medication together. Surely there must be a synthetic

substitute

> nowadays - which brings of course the tricky business of

discovering which

> medicaments use the synthetic substance and which not, and whether

to

> believe the people who answer your questions about it.

>

> Who said things were easy? - Piers