Diets don't work

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, diets don't work for me. In fact, I have never met a

person who has had long-run success with dieting. Dieting apparently

leads to temporary weight losses of muscle and fat, then a regain of

fat. A dieter progressively becomes a tired, weak, unhealthy person

with a low metabolism, who has more and more trouble losing weight on

a diet.

 

I have done enough of that. This time I'm trying a lifestyle

change. Rather than dieting to limit the amount of sugar I eat, I

have totally renounced sugar. Rather than dieting to limit the

amount of animal protein, fats and oils I eat, I have

become " practically vegan, " which means I eat only three ozs of

chicken per month and no other animal protein, fats, oils or

cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in the past week

involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined carbohydrates,

coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise program.

 

In the past week I may have gained three ounces of muscle as a result

of my exercise program and apparently lost 1 lb, 3 ozs of fat,

because my net weight loss was one pound. At this rate, in one year

I could build enough muscle to raise my metabolism and increase my

conditioning; while losing enough fat to net a fifty pound weight

loss in one year! Since I'm only 20 pounds overweight, suffice it to

say that with my current lifestyle changes I could reach my goal(s)

in less than one year!

 

I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire for

wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet would

be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and spiritual

health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

 

To each his own, eh, what?

 

Ron McClure

[Guest guest]

I have to both agree and disagree with this. Diets help you loose weight and as long as you eat sensibly when you stop dieting the weight will stay off. I need/want to loose weight and am aiming to loose at least 5st, and have decided that, it would be better to not diet but change my lifestyle, I eat sensibly all week and have one treat on a Saturday, I think that this way it’s a more sensible option than dieting and it is something I can stick to permanently. Not just in the short term.

 

A lot has to be said for dieting though, I know someone who lost 2st by dieting and in the last 5 years has only ever put 3lbs of the weight back on temporarily.

 

Speak to you all soon,

 

Jon

 

On 14/1/03 7:42 pm, " rlmftw <rlmftw " <rlmftw wrote:

 

In my opinion, diets don't work for me. In fact, I have never met a

person who has had long-run success with dieting. Dieting apparently

leads to temporary weight losses of muscle and fat, then a regain of

fat. A dieter progressively becomes a tired, weak, unhealthy person

with a low metabolism, who has more and more trouble losing weight on

a diet.

 

I have done enough of that. This time I'm trying a lifestyle

change. Rather than dieting to limit the amount of sugar I eat, I

have totally renounced sugar. Rather than dieting to limit the

amount of animal protein, fats and oils I eat, I have

become " practically vegan, " which means I eat only three ozs of

chicken per month and no other animal protein, fats, oils or

cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in the past week

involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined carbohydrates,

coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise program.

 

In the past week I may have gained three ounces of muscle as a result

of my exercise program and apparently lost 1 lb, 3 ozs of fat,

because my net weight loss was one pound. At this rate, in one year

I could build enough muscle to raise my metabolism and increase my

conditioning; while losing enough fat to net a fifty pound weight

loss in one year! Since I'm only 20 pounds overweight, suffice it to

say that with my current lifestyle changes I could reach my goal(s)

in less than one year!

 

I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire for

wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet would

be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and spiritual

health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

 

To each his own, eh, what?

 

Ron McClure

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, Ron, diets may not work for you - but your current lifestyle

change also involves a change of diet - and *that* diet seems to be

working for you very nicely ;=) Great that you lost some weight - great

that you feel good on what you're eating and with what you're doing!

 

But I guess you are talking about fad reducing diets. They work for some

people, they really do. And there are all sorts of fad diets around,

including some we make up for ourselves. My favourite diet, and it

certainly works, is to eat less. I just continue with what I've always

been eating - and that is a healthy vegetarian diet - but eat smaller

portions. And of course I cut down on the very foods that are known to

be, excuse the term ;=), high in calories. I am not now cutting any

particular foods out of my daily regime except for sugar (who needs it -

except half a tsp in a whole recipe sometimes - but not white sugar)

butter (i'm ovo-lacto) and whole-milk yoghurt. Eggs are pretty rare, but

since I still eat one now and then in something or other, I call myself

ovo as well ;=) Btw, I should mention that I can do this because eggs

per se are not high in calories and because I do not have a cholesterol

problem. White flour and white rice are not on the cards whether or not

I am trying to lose a little weight - except sometimes once in a blue

moon at a restaurant - there are no vegetarian restaurants in London,

Ontario.

 

I must say that if you have, in the last week, cut yourself off from

cigarettes (you were smoking up until then, I assume) and alcohol

(drinking regularly if not to excess, I assume), then you are to be

congratulated again! It is difficult *not* to gain weight when either

cigarettes or alcohol is first given up. But it gets better - really it

does ;=) Btw, you do know, don't you, that the current thinking is that

a little alcohol is actually *good* for lowering your cholesterol - not

good enough to start drinking if you're a non-drinker, of course, but

certainly good enough to have the occasional glass of wine if you are

already accustomed to it. Unless, of course, your doctor has dictated

otherwise ;=) And of course that exercise you are starting to take is a

grand idea!

 

best,

pat

--

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------

[Guest guest]

You present two issues here, Ron, that are worthy of further comment.

 

>>In my opinion, diets don't work for me.<<

 

Why? I know this puts you on the spot, but what is it about you that makes

them not work?

 

I'm unclear which context you're using the term, " diet. " 1. A food program

intended to produce a specific result. Or 2. The usual foods a person

eats.

 

I know you're fond of calling your diet (#2) a lifestyle change, which is in

reality a diet (#1). Given this, I 'd say it's all about semantics.

 

>>In fact, I have never met a person

who has had long-run success with dieting.<<

 

Well, Laura x and I have both told you of our success with weight reduction.

I'd conclude that we employed diet in both ways.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

, " rlmftw <rlmftw> "

<rlmftw> wrote:

 

>This time I'm trying a lifestyle change. Rather than dieting to

>limit the amount of sugar I eat, I have totally renounced sugar.

>Rather than dieting to limit the amount of animal protein, fats and

>oils I eat, I have become " practically vegan, " which means I eat

>only three ozs of chicken per month and no other animal protein,

>fats, oils or cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in

>the past week involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined

>carbohydrates, coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise

>program.

 

 

In my opinion, and note this is only my opinion, the changes you

describe sound like a diet. When i use the term diet, i am not

talking about short term severe restriction of food intake, but more

a long term/forever change in the way i eat, or what you8 refer to

as a lifestyle change. It appears as if you are belittling the

group for being " dieters " when many, if not all of us, are making

significant long term changes the same as you are. I use the term

diet to describe what i eat, people could eat MacD's all day and i'd

still refer to what they eat as " their diet " . So just because we

talk about our diets, does not mean we are all thinking of things

only in terms of weight loss. Although i should again point out

that slimming is what the group is about and as Dave said before its

not the place to discuss spiritual aspects.

 

 

> " In fact, I have never met a person who has had long-run success

>with dieting. Dieting apparently leads to temporary weight losses

>of muscle and fat, then a regain of fat. A dieter progressively

>becomes a tired, weak, unhealthy person with a low metabolism, who

>has more and more trouble losing weight on a diet. "

 

Again you said that you don't feel that " diets " can work, which is

fair enough as thats your opinion, but you must bear in mind that

everyone here, including yourself is on some kind of diet intending

to achieve health and weight loss, and when you keep saying that it

won't work i feel you are affecting people's motivation. Posting

every few days, basically saying that we are all wasting our time

and going to fail is not very helpful to the group as a whole. I'm

going to have to ask you to refrain from making such comments as i

don't think it is appropriate in a slimming forum. Sorry Ron.

 

>I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire

>for wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet

>would be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and

>spiritual health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

 

 

 

You refer to a holistic approach to health. But from my perspective

as a health professional, health is not just about the physical

aspects of yourself. It also encompasses the mental health -

emotional, spiritual, cognitive and behavioural aspects of the self,

and also your environment. So, i believe that changing diet and

exercise is not a complete lifestyle approach or a completely

holistic outlook. But again this is my opinion.

 

The reason i am mentioning this is that you seem to have a lot of

anger and frustration built up inside you. These kind of feelings,

when they are prolonged, are very unhealthy for both physical and

mental health, and it seems to me that you may benefit from working

on these aspects of your health if you want a truly holistic outlook.

 

Laura x

[Guest guest]

, Jon Parry <mail@c...>

wrote:

> I have to both agree and disagree with this. Diets help you loose

>weight and as long as you eat sensibly when you stop dieting the

>weight will stay off. I need/want to loose weight and am aiming to

>loose at least 5st, and have decided that, it would be better to

>not diet but change my lifestyle...

 

 

I think there's a lot of different definitions of what a diet is and

i don't know about anyone else but i do feel a little confused. The

lifestyle change that you are decribing, i would describe as a

diet. You are changing the way you eat, and therefore changing your

diet. I won't bore you all by going on because i've done that

already. But i think a lifestyle change is much more global,

involving perhaps, a change of job, social circumstances, outlook on

life, spirituality etc. To me, a lifestyle change is about more

than just food and exercise. I do know this is only my opinion

though.

 

Anyway Jon, i'd hate you to think that i'm moaning because you've

only just started posting. I'm glad you've joined and i hope that

we can be of some help in your pursuit of health and happiness. It

sounds like you have the right idea about your diet. I started

doing weight watchers but think that i'll just eat healthfully

(which i do anyway) and cut down my portion sizes. I also intend to

exercise more.

 

Laura x

[Guest guest]

Jon:

 

What I say is only my opinion; it is based only upon my experience.

 

I think that the difference between dieting and lifestyle changes is

a subtle, but powerful one. For example, the sugar diet might be as

follows:

 

B: One large doughnut.

L: Two large chocolate brownies.

D: One pint ice cream.

 

This diet is moreless 1,000 calories, give or take, and if you can

live on it, you can lose a couple of pounds a week. There are

several problems with the sugar diet, however. One is that sugar

stimulates hunger through the taste and through the insulin

response. You can't stay on this diet because sugar makes you very,

very hungry, as do several other foods that we won't mention at this

time.

 

On the other hand, one way to deal with sugar by making a lifestyle

change might be to renounce it completely and abstain from it

entirely (in all its forms and guises).

 

Notice that the diet requires constant control in all kinds of

situations, at all times. The lifestyly change requires only the

ability to make a decision once and then stick with it.

 

What I don't like about diets is all the details, complications and

situations I have to worry about to stay on the diet. I soon get

tired of this complicated way of life.

 

Few people that I can see are successful on diets because they use

them to try to eat the good things they want lots of, but through

self-will and determination, eat only moderate amounts of things like

sugar, which actually stimulate hunger, sabotage health and

contribute to malnutrition and chronic, degenerative diseases.

 

Good luck to all the dieters out there!

 

Ron McClure

 

, Jon Parry <mail@c...>

wrote:

> I have to both agree and disagree with this. Diets help you loose

weight

> and as long as you eat sensibly when you stop dieting the weight

will stay

> off. I need/want to loose weight and am aiming to loose at least

5st, and

> have decided that, it would be better to not diet but change my

lifestyle, I

> eat sensibly all week and have one treat on a Saturday, I think

that this

> way it¹s a more sensible option than dieting and it is something I

can stick

> to permanently. Not just in the short term.

>

> A lot has to be said for dieting though, I know someone who lost

2st by

> dieting and in the last 5 years has only ever put 3lbs of the

weight back on

> temporarily.

>

> Speak to you all soon,

>

> Jon

>

> On 14/1/03 7:42 pm, " rlmftw <rlmftw> " <rlmftw> wrote:

>

> > In my opinion, diets don't work for me. In fact, I have never

met a

> > person who has had long-run success with dieting. Dieting

apparently

> > leads to temporary weight losses of muscle and fat, then a regain

of

> > fat. A dieter progressively becomes a tired, weak, unhealthy

person

> > with a low metabolism, who has more and more trouble losing

weight on

> > a diet.

> >

> > I have done enough of that. This time I'm trying a lifestyle

> > change. Rather than dieting to limit the amount of sugar I eat, I

> > have totally renounced sugar. Rather than dieting to limit the

> > amount of animal protein, fats and oils I eat, I have

> > become " practically vegan, " which means I eat only three ozs of

> > chicken per month and no other animal protein, fats, oils or

> > cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in the past week

> > involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined

carbohydrates,

> > coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise program.

> >

> > In the past week I may have gained three ounces of muscle as a

result

> > of my exercise program and apparently lost 1 lb, 3 ozs of fat,

> > because my net weight loss was one pound. At this rate, in one

year

> > I could build enough muscle to raise my metabolism and increase my

> > conditioning; while losing enough fat to net a fifty pound weight

> > loss in one year! Since I'm only 20 pounds overweight, suffice

it to

> > say that with my current lifestyle changes I could reach my goal

(s)

> > in less than one year!

> >

> > I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire

for

> > wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet

would

> > be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and spiritual

> > health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

> >

> > To each his own, eh, what?

> >

> > Ron McClure

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Pat:

 

I found your response to be very tactful and polite, but very

complicated. After I had read the whole message I had the feeling

that I should read it again in order to understand what it said.

This is precisely what I don't like about diets. Diets have so many

details, complications, and require so much effort, discipline,

moderation and control that I cannot succeed with them.

 

--When I need to go to the bathroom--I need to go to the bathroom!!

There's no sense trying to CONTROL IT! I'm pretty much the same way

when I get hungry. WHEN I GET HUNGRY, I NEED TO FIND SOMETHING TO

EAT!!!!

 

The first rule of my lifestyle change is: DO NOT GET HUNGRY. The

second rule is: EAT ALL THE LOW-CARBOHYDRATE VEGETABLES I WANT,

WHENEVER I WANT, AS MUCH AS I WANT. In short, all I have to do is

make a decision one time to abstain from sugar (and some other

substances) and then go about my life. I don't have to carry an

encyclopedia of rules around in my head all the time.

 

That's what I dislike about diets and like about lifestyle changes.

If you are honest with me, I think you must admit that many people

who say they can control when they go to the bathroom and how much

they go, really cannot control that--or anything else--to the extent

that they say they can. That's why we have so many fat people in the

USA: nobody wants to admit that they can't control food--and can't

diet.

 

There are lots of fat people BECAUSE DIETS DON'T WORK! The only

other possibility is that there are lots of fat people BECAUSE THEY

WANT TO BE FAT!

 

Well, perhaps the latter is a very good reason. I suspect that many

people who go on diets really want to be fat, but they don't want

anybody to know they want to be fat, so they go on diets to fool

other people and make them think they don't want to be fat.

 

In that case, the first requirement for losing weight is an honest

desire to lose weight. Let's be real. Not very many people who are

on diets want to pay the price or give up what they have to give up

in order to do so. Thus, a diet is a clever way for these people to

fool themselves and everybody else about their unwillingness to lose

weight. It's the high percentage of this kind of person out there

that makes diets so unsuccessful.

 

I admit that I am weak. That is the strength of my diet and exercise

program. I don't try to do things I don't want to do, or cannot do.

 

Ron McClure

 

 

, Sant & Brown

<santbrown@l...> wrote:

> Well, Ron, diets may not work for you - but your current lifestyle

> change also involves a change of diet - and *that* diet seems to be

> working for you very nicely ;=) Great that you lost some weight -

great

> that you feel good on what you're eating and with what you're doing!

>

> But I guess you are talking about fad reducing diets. They work for

some

> people, they really do. And there are all sorts of fad diets around,

> including some we make up for ourselves. My favourite diet, and it

> certainly works, is to eat less. I just continue with what I've

always

> been eating - and that is a healthy vegetarian diet - but eat

smaller

> portions. And of course I cut down on the very foods that are known

to

> be, excuse the term ;=), high in calories. I am not now cutting any

> particular foods out of my daily regime except for sugar (who needs

it -

> except half a tsp in a whole recipe sometimes - but not white sugar)

> butter (i'm ovo-lacto) and whole-milk yoghurt. Eggs are pretty

rare, but

> since I still eat one now and then in something or other, I call

myself

> ovo as well ;=) Btw, I should mention that I can do this because

eggs

> per se are not high in calories and because I do not have a

cholesterol

> problem. White flour and white rice are not on the cards whether or

not

> I am trying to lose a little weight - except sometimes once in a

blue

> moon at a restaurant - there are no vegetarian restaurants in

London,

> Ontario.

>

> I must say that if you have, in the last week, cut yourself off from

> cigarettes (you were smoking up until then, I assume) and alcohol

> (drinking regularly if not to excess, I assume), then you are to be

> congratulated again! It is difficult *not* to gain weight when

either

> cigarettes or alcohol is first given up. But it gets better -

really it

> does ;=) Btw, you do know, don't you, that the current thinking is

that

> a little alcohol is actually *good* for lowering your cholesterol -

not

> good enough to start drinking if you're a non-drinker, of course,

but

> certainly good enough to have the occasional glass of wine if you

are

> already accustomed to it. Unless, of course, your doctor has

dictated

> otherwise ;=) And of course that exercise you are starting to take

is a

> grand idea!

>

> best,

> pat

> --

> PAT (In London, Ontario)

> Email List: townhounds-

> (townhounds/)

> Personal Email: SANTBROWN@L...

> Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

> ----------

> * " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things,

man

> will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

> * " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

> * " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

> ----------

[Guest guest]

Dave:

 

I think your decision to become a vegetarian was a lifestyle change

that affects your diet--but I would not call it a diet. This is

semantics. But the difference between diets and lifestyle changes is

very real and very important. Please see some of my later messages

under the subject " Diets don't work. " I've gone to considerable

trouble to explain what I mean.

 

Thanks.

 

Ron McClure

 

, " daveo " <daveo@m...> wrote:

>

> You present two issues here, Ron, that are worthy of further

comment.

>

> >>In my opinion, diets don't work for me.<<

>

> Why? I know this puts you on the spot, but what is it about you

that makes

> them not work?

>

> I'm unclear which context you're using the term, " diet. " 1. A

food program

> intended to produce a specific result. Or 2. The usual foods a

person

> eats.

>

> I know you're fond of calling your diet (#2) a lifestyle change,

which is in

> reality a diet (#1). Given this, I 'd say it's all about semantics.

>

> >>In fact, I have never met a person

> who has had long-run success with dieting.<<

>

> Well, Laura x and I have both told you of our success with weight

reduction.

> I'd conclude that we employed diet in both ways.

>

> Dave

[Guest guest]

Laura:

 

Your responses to my posts have been very patient and tactful, but I

would like to be blunt with you: You don't understand what I am

talking about.

 

Diet has a physical, mental and spiritual aspect. When you talk

about diet, you appear to be talking about nothing more than the

physical aspect. When I talk about diet, I am talking primarily

about the mental and spiritual aspects. Indeed, it is the mental and

spiritual aspects of diet that make the physical a basis for chronic,

degenerative diseases, like mental and spiritual sickness. Do you

agree?

 

You also appear to be " flaming " similar to the way I was last week,

for the following reason. If I only know one way to do something,

and somebody tells me there is a better way to do it, what I hear is

that they are telling me that I can't do it.

 

Ron McCLure

 

, " Laura

<child_of_the_80s@h...> " <child_of_the_80s@h...> wrote:

> , " rlmftw <rlmftw> "

> <rlmftw> wrote:

>

> >This time I'm trying a lifestyle change. Rather than dieting to

> >limit the amount of sugar I eat, I have totally renounced sugar.

> >Rather than dieting to limit the amount of animal protein, fats

and

> >oils I eat, I have become " practically vegan, " which means I eat

> >only three ozs of chicken per month and no other animal protein,

> >fats, oils or cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in

> >the past week involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined

> >carbohydrates, coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise

> >program.

>

>

> In my opinion, and note this is only my opinion, the changes you

> describe sound like a diet. When i use the term diet, i am not

> talking about short term severe restriction of food intake, but

more

> a long term/forever change in the way i eat, or what you8 refer to

> as a lifestyle change. It appears as if you are belittling the

> group for being " dieters " when many, if not all of us, are making

> significant long term changes the same as you are. I use the term

> diet to describe what i eat, people could eat MacD's all day and

i'd

> still refer to what they eat as " their diet " . So just because we

> talk about our diets, does not mean we are all thinking of things

> only in terms of weight loss. Although i should again point out

> that slimming is what the group is about and as Dave said before

its

> not the place to discuss spiritual aspects.

>

>

> > " In fact, I have never met a person who has had long-run success

> >with dieting. Dieting apparently leads to temporary weight losses

> >of muscle and fat, then a regain of fat. A dieter progressively

> >becomes a tired, weak, unhealthy person with a low metabolism, who

> >has more and more trouble losing weight on a diet. "

>

> Again you said that you don't feel that " diets " can work, which is

> fair enough as thats your opinion, but you must bear in mind that

> everyone here, including yourself is on some kind of diet intending

> to achieve health and weight loss, and when you keep saying that it

> won't work i feel you are affecting people's motivation. Posting

> every few days, basically saying that we are all wasting our time

> and going to fail is not very helpful to the group as a whole. I'm

> going to have to ask you to refrain from making such comments as i

> don't think it is appropriate in a slimming forum. Sorry Ron.

>

> >I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire

> >for wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet

> >would be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and

> >spiritual health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

>

>

>

> You refer to a holistic approach to health. But from my

perspective

> as a health professional, health is not just about the physical

> aspects of yourself. It also encompasses the mental health -

> emotional, spiritual, cognitive and behavioural aspects of the

self,

> and also your environment. So, i believe that changing diet and

> exercise is not a complete lifestyle approach or a completely

> holistic outlook. But again this is my opinion.

>

> The reason i am mentioning this is that you seem to have a lot of

> anger and frustration built up inside you. These kind of feelings,

> when they are prolonged, are very unhealthy for both physical and

> mental health, and it seems to me that you may benefit from working

> on these aspects of your health if you want a truly holistic

outlook.

>

> Laura x

[Guest guest]

 

-

rlmftw <rlmftw

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:58 PM

Re: Diets don't work

 

Laura:Your responses to my posts have been very patient and tactful, but I would like to be blunt with you: You don't understand what I am talking about.

 

 

Ron hate to break it to you, but I think that very often NONE of us understand what you are talking about. All we hear over and over again is that you've abstained from everything out there that you concieve of as being bad. And you just repeat yourself over and over again with the same things. I think many of us are losing our patience here because you make us all feel like we are under attack when we say anything that you might not agree with.

[Guest guest]

Allison MurpheyAdministrative AssistantPlanned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania(412) 434-8957

 

-

rlmftw <rlmftw

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:58 PM

Re: Diets don't work

You also appear to be "flaming" similar to the way I was last week, for the following reason. If I only know one way to do something, and somebody tells me there is a better way to do it, what I hear is that they are telling me that I can't do it.Ron McCLure-

 

I also get the feeling that you have been telling us on here all day that "we can't do it" when you go off about sugar and tell us that the American world WANTS to be fat. While that may possibly be true for a small majority, I do not think it fits everyone out there. You are preaching a BETTER way in your opinion to fix this problem and it feels to me at least that you are saying people can't do it on their own when it is the only way they know how... There are many people who have done it and kept the weight off by themselves, without giving up sugar.

[Guest guest]

>Ron: In my opinion, diets don't work for me. In fact, I have never met a

>person who has had long-run success with dieting.

 

 

I have, but they are *very* rare.

 

 

>cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in the past week

>involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined carbohydrates,

>coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise program.

 

no wonder you are so bitchy . . . er . . . on edge. That's a lot of

slash and burn agriculture in one week!

 

But I'm one to talk. I've never had a problem with doing any of those

things in excess. I just eat way too much.

 

 

>In the past week I may have gained three ounces of muscle as a result

>of my exercise program and apparently lost 1 lb, 3 ozs of fat,

>because my net weight loss was one pound. At this rate, in one year

>I could build enough muscle to raise my metabolism and increase my

>conditioning; while losing enough fat to net a fifty pound weight

>loss in one year! Since I'm only 20 pounds overweight, suffice it to

>say that with my current lifestyle changes I could reach my goal(s)

>in less than one year!

 

this is *marvelous* It's also very nice that you really only need to

lose a little. I have over 100 lbs. to lose.

 

>I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire for

>wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet would

>be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and spiritual

>health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

 

I think an extreme diet--no carbohydrates or no protein or extremely

low calories--is crazy and damaging to a person spiritually as well

as physically.

 

I just need to find a physical, spiritual, god-only-knows way to not

eat a 1/2 bag of chips and a carton of dip before (during and after)

dinner. I don't do it every day. It's not a life style. I don't do

all the stupid things people do. I don't snack while I watch tv (I

crochet, no calories). I don't eat a lot of processed food. I eat

healthy most of the time. I just binge 2 or 3 times per week. Enough

times per week that I'm still 100 lbs overweight.

 

I've done weight watchers, I've done overeaters anonymous, I've had

my ears stapled (it's an acupuncture thing), I've done rational

recovery. I can do great for six months and then I'm face down in the

chips. WW was great, I lost 50 lbs in a little over a year. Then they

changed to the points system. It's slightly fewer calories and fruit

was no longer " free. " I didn't lose another ounce. I sat in the

meetings for a year after that thinking " how do you do it? why can't

I do it? " OA was wonderful. I did lose weight for a while. I don't

know how much because they don't let you weigh--it's a control thing.

The religiosity of it started nauseating me after a year or so. In

the end it was the same. Going to meetings and binging at lunch

afterward. Rational recovery doesn't have meetings and I lost 17 lbs

in 2 months. Then I was " all beast " and I couldn't stop. I still

occasionally re-read the book (the website is wonderful, you should

do their " short course " just for fun www.rational.com) but I still

wonder, " yes, but how do you *do* it? "

 

Susan

--

---------

Please visit my website:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

 

Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

the next few months:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

Allison:

 

Perhaps you should give it a break. If I'm not talking with you,

don't read my posts.

 

Ron McClure

 

, <amurphey@p...> wrote:

>

>

> Allison Murphey

> Administrative Assistant

> Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania

> (412) 434-8957

> -

> rlmftw <rlmftw

>

> Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:58 PM

> Re: Diets don't work

>

>

>

> You also appear to be " flaming " similar to the way I was last

week,

> for the following reason. If I only know one way to do

something,

> and somebody tells me there is a better way to do it, what I hear

is

> that they are telling me that I can't do it.

>

> Ron McCLure-

>

> I also get the feeling that you have been telling us on here all

day that " we can't do it " when you go off about sugar and tell us

that the American world WANTS to be fat. While that may possibly be

true for a small majority, I do not think it fits everyone out there.

You are preaching a BETTER way in your opinion to fix this problem

and it feels to me at least that you are saying people can't do it on

their own when it is the only way they know how... There are many

people who have done it and kept the weight off by themselves,

without giving up sugar.

[Guest guest]

> Notice that the diet requires constant control in all kinds of

> situations, at all times. The lifestyly change requires only the

> ability to make a decision once and then stick with it.

>

Well wouldn't that be nice and easy ;=) - all done without willpower!

;=) However, not everyone wants to cut out whole food groups that are

good for them in order to make it easy on themselves in the short term -

not good nutritional practice. And a diet is a diet is a diet. You are

on one, by definition, and so are the rest of us - and most of us are

trying to be on vegetarian 'diets' that are healthy and nutritious and

satisfying and yet still allow us to shed a few pounds. Even lifelong

vegetarians occasionally gain a little weight, you know, for one reason

or another.

 

I worry about your 'opinion', Ron. I worry about it affecting people new

to vegetarianism and to lists like this one, people who rely on such

lists to inform rather than misinform, and I worry about it affecting

people's morale. My own included ;=) - yes. Granted refined sugar is not

good for us. But neither will a very small amount now and then do us any

lasting damage, you know. The same with fats - animal fats for those who

are lacto vegetarians - including fats/oils in vegetables. Quite the

opposite for vegetable oils, actually - they are health inducing, no

matter what your current opinion is. When you have dropped a few pounds,

perhaps you might reconsider - for the sake of your health. I and others

would be remiss if we didn't mention this to you - so I do it again -

okay ;=)

 

As for the sugar diet you (I assume) jokingly mention - is there really

such a thing?????? I mean, we all know foolish people who kind of live

like that, but not for long, maybe. But would anyone actually suggest it

as a weight-loss diet? Good grief! ;=)

 

Good luck with all this. You are new to vegetarianism, I know, and

obviously you have a need to lose some weight or you wouldn't be on this

list. With only one week into it, however, it might be a good idea to

listen to some of the experts on this list. I know I shall - that's why

I'm here. Otherwise, there'd be no point to being a member.

 

best,

pat

--

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------

[Guest guest]

Susan:

 

I have the same problem you do with chips and dips--that's why I

don't eat the first one: I cannot moderate and control the amount of

chips and dips that I eat, therefore, I totally renounce chips and

dips. I abstain entirely from chips and dips.

 

What's so bitchy about that?

 

Ron McClure

 

, Susan Cogan <susan-

brassfield@o...> wrote:

> >Ron: In my opinion, diets don't work for me. In fact, I have

never met a

> >person who has had long-run success with dieting.

>

>

> I have, but they are *very* rare.

>

>

> >cholesterol. Other lifestyle changes I have made in the past week

> >involve abstaining from alcohol, cigarettes, refined carbohydrates,

> >coffee, salt and drugs--and starting an exercise program.

>

> no wonder you are so bitchy . . . er . . . on edge. That's a lot of

> slash and burn agriculture in one week!

>

> But I'm one to talk. I've never had a problem with doing any of

those

> things in excess. I just eat way too much.

>

>

> >In the past week I may have gained three ounces of muscle as a

result

> >of my exercise program and apparently lost 1 lb, 3 ozs of fat,

> >because my net weight loss was one pound. At this rate, in one

year

> >I could build enough muscle to raise my metabolism and increase my

> >conditioning; while losing enough fat to net a fifty pound weight

> >loss in one year! Since I'm only 20 pounds overweight, suffice it

to

> >say that with my current lifestyle changes I could reach my goal(s)

> >in less than one year!

>

> this is *marvelous* It's also very nice that you really only need

to

> lose a little. I have over 100 lbs. to lose.

>

> >I believe that lifestyle changes are more in line with my desire

for

> >wholistic health than dieting would be. I believe that a diet

would

> >be a myopic way for me to overlook mental, physical and spiritual

> >health--which is the goal of my lifestyle changes.

>

> I think an extreme diet--no carbohydrates or no protein or

extremely

> low calories--is crazy and damaging to a person spiritually as well

> as physically.

>

> I just need to find a physical, spiritual, god-only-knows way to

not

> eat a 1/2 bag of chips and a carton of dip before (during and

after)

> dinner. I don't do it every day. It's not a life style. I don't do

> all the stupid things people do. I don't snack while I watch tv (I

> crochet, no calories). I don't eat a lot of processed food. I eat

> healthy most of the time. I just binge 2 or 3 times per week.

Enough

> times per week that I'm still 100 lbs overweight.

>

> I've done weight watchers, I've done overeaters anonymous, I've had

> my ears stapled (it's an acupuncture thing), I've done rational

> recovery. I can do great for six months and then I'm face down in

the

> chips. WW was great, I lost 50 lbs in a little over a year. Then

they

> changed to the points system. It's slightly fewer calories and

fruit

> was no longer " free. " I didn't lose another ounce. I sat in the

> meetings for a year after that thinking " how do you do it? why

can't

> I do it? " OA was wonderful. I did lose weight for a while. I don't

> know how much because they don't let you weigh--it's a control

thing.

> The religiosity of it started nauseating me after a year or so. In

> the end it was the same. Going to meetings and binging at lunch

> afterward. Rational recovery doesn't have meetings and I lost 17

lbs

> in 2 months. Then I was " all beast " and I couldn't stop. I still

> occasionally re-read the book (the website is wonderful, you should

> do their " short course " just for fun www.rational.com) but I still

> wonder, " yes, but how do you *do* it? "

>

> Susan

> --

> ---------

> Please visit my website:

> http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

>

> Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

> the next few months:

> http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

Pat:

 

We don't appear to be speaking the same language. In my opinion, we

never will. When you see one of my posts, please realize that I am

not talking to you.

 

What I'm doing in this club, actually, is looking for someone who can

understand what I am talking about. I found a guy named Werner in

another of my groups and we exchange e-mail messages regularly in

what is growing to be a very supportive friendship.

 

But if you and I are not like-minded. Let's leave it at that. Good

luck, Pat.

 

Ron McClure

 

, Sant & Brown

<santbrown@l...> wrote:

> > Notice that the diet requires constant control in all kinds of

> > situations, at all times. The lifestyly change requires only the

> > ability to make a decision once and then stick with it.

> >

> Well wouldn't that be nice and easy ;=) - all done without

willpower!

> ;=) However, not everyone wants to cut out whole food groups that

are

> good for them in order to make it easy on themselves in the short

term -

> not good nutritional practice. And a diet is a diet is a diet. You

are

> on one, by definition, and so are the rest of us - and most of us

are

> trying to be on vegetarian 'diets' that are healthy and nutritious

and

> satisfying and yet still allow us to shed a few pounds. Even

lifelong

> vegetarians occasionally gain a little weight, you know, for one

reason

> or another.

>

> I worry about your 'opinion', Ron. I worry about it affecting

people new

> to vegetarianism and to lists like this one, people who rely on such

> lists to inform rather than misinform, and I worry about it

affecting

> people's morale. My own included ;=) - yes. Granted refined sugar

is not

> good for us. But neither will a very small amount now and then do

us any

> lasting damage, you know. The same with fats - animal fats for

those who

> are lacto vegetarians - including fats/oils in vegetables. Quite the

> opposite for vegetable oils, actually - they are health inducing, no

> matter what your current opinion is. When you have dropped a few

pounds,

> perhaps you might reconsider - for the sake of your health. I and

others

> would be remiss if we didn't mention this to you - so I do it

again -

> okay ;=)

>

> As for the sugar diet you (I assume) jokingly mention - is there

really

> such a thing?????? I mean, we all know foolish people who kind of

live

> like that, but not for long, maybe. But would anyone actually

suggest it

> as a weight-loss diet? Good grief! ;=)

>

> Good luck with all this. You are new to vegetarianism, I know, and

> obviously you have a need to lose some weight or you wouldn't be on

this

> list. With only one week into it, however, it might be a good idea

to

> listen to some of the experts on this list. I know I shall - that's

why

> I'm here. Otherwise, there'd be no point to being a member.

>

> best,

> pat

> --

> PAT (In London, Ontario)

> Email List: townhounds-

> (townhounds/)

> Personal Email: SANTBROWN@L...

> Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

> ----------

> * " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things,

man

> will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

> * " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

> * " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

> ----------

[Guest guest]

>>...When you see one of my posts, please

realize that I am not talking to you.<<

 

Get real, guys!!! You post to a list, you are talking to everybody on the

list. Why would you think otherwise?

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

>Pat:

>

>I found your response to be very tactful and polite, but very

>complicated. After I had read the whole message I had the feeling

>that I should read it again in order to understand what it said.

>This is precisely what I don't like about diets. Diets have so many

>details, complications, and require so much effort, discipline,

>moderation and control that I cannot succeed with them.

>

>--When I need to go to the bathroom--I need to go to the bathroom!!

>There's no sense trying to CONTROL IT! I'm pretty much the same way

>when I get hungry. WHEN I GET HUNGRY, I NEED TO FIND SOMETHING TO

>EAT!!!!

>

>The first rule of my lifestyle change is: DO NOT GET HUNGRY. The

>second rule is: EAT ALL THE LOW-CARBOHYDRATE VEGETABLES I WANT,

>WHENEVER I WANT, AS MUCH AS I WANT. In short, all I have to do is

>make a decision one time to abstain from sugar (and some other

>substances) and then go about my life. I don't have to carry an

>encyclopedia of rules around in my head all the time.

 

 

this sounds like some thoughtful advice. I'm going to think about it.

 

 

>There are lots of fat people BECAUSE DIETS DON'T WORK! The only

>other possibility is that there are lots of fat people BECAUSE THEY

>WANT TO BE FAT!

 

 

I don't think this is true. I think that people can make an

*intellectual* connection between eating and fat, but they cannot

make an *emotional* connection. The only connection is with the taste

and the sensation of being hungry. You don't wake up weighing 400 lbs

after an evening of pizza and beer. The next day nothing's different.

I could be days or weeks before the consequences creep up.

 

 

 

>Well, perhaps the latter is a very good reason. I suspect that many

>people who go on diets really want to be fat, but they don't want

>anybody to know they want to be fat, so they go on diets to fool

>other people and make them think they don't want to be fat.

 

 

nah. People go on diets because they want their pizza evenings but

they don't want the *consequences* of those wonderful pleasures. It's

hard to make yourself believe that something that feels so good could

be so bad. Especially when nothing bad happens right away.

 

>In that case, the first requirement for losing weight is an honest

>desire to lose weight. Let's be real. Not very many people who are

>on diets want to pay the price or give up what they have to give up

>in order to do so. Thus, a diet is a clever way for these people to

>fool themselves and everybody else about their unwillingness to lose

>weight. It's the high percentage of this kind of person out there

>that makes diets so unsuccessful.

>

>I admit that I am weak. That is the strength of my diet and exercise

>program. I don't try to do things I don't want to do, or cannot do.

 

well, I don't want to eat a pile of partially cooked salt-free, fat

free vegetables when everyone else is eating cake and pizza. I've

never been able to do it--well, actually a few times I *have* done it

and then binged on six times the calories later. But then, of course,

that illustrates your final point :-)

 

Susan

--

---------

Please visit my website:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

 

Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

the next few months:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

Well Ron, I don't find your response to my response in the least bit

tactful, but it certainly is uncomplicated.

 

Actually, I find your comparison of eating with 'going to the bathroom' to

be very revealing. And unnecessary.

 

As for the rest of your comments, I find most of them to be either

misinformed or downright offensive. I refer, for example, to your contention

- and I quote -

 

> I suspect that many

> people who go on diets really want to be fat, but they don't want

> anybody to know they want to be fat, so they go on diets to fool

> other people and make them think they don't want to be fat.

>

This is not only offensive to those trying hard to lose excess weight -

whether for health reasons or for for vanity (not a bad thing - the result

is the same) - but it is patently untrue. You have lost one pound, Ron, and

I applauded you and still applaud you for it. But for you to state, with

what amounts to cruelty and arrogance, that anyone who is not following your

regime does not want to lose weight etc is absolutely unacceptable to me. I

too have only some 15 or 20 pounds to lose. That's good - it makes life

easier for me. But there are people who are out there - and on this list -

who have a lot of weight to lose and what your remarks do is belittle them

and their attempts - honest attempts - to do so.

 

best,

pat

 

 

 

" rlmftw " wrote:

 

> Pat:

>

> I found your response to be very tactful and polite, but very

> complicated. After I had read the whole message I had the feeling

> that I should read it again in order to understand what it said.

> This is precisely what I don't like about diets. Diets have so many

> details, complications, and require so much effort, discipline,

> moderation and control that I cannot succeed with them.

>

> --When I need to go to the bathroom--I need to go to the bathroom!!

> There's no sense trying to CONTROL IT! I'm pretty much the same way

> when I get hungry. WHEN I GET HUNGRY, I NEED TO FIND SOMETHING TO

> EAT!!!!

>

> The first rule of my lifestyle change is: DO NOT GET HUNGRY. The

> second rule is: EAT ALL THE LOW-CARBOHYDRATE VEGETABLES I WANT,

> WHENEVER I WANT, AS MUCH AS I WANT. In short, all I have to do is

> make a decision one time to abstain from sugar (and some other

> substances) and then go about my life. I don't have to carry an

> encyclopedia of rules around in my head all the time.

>

> That's what I dislike about diets and like about lifestyle changes.

> If you are honest with me, I think you must admit that many people

> who say they can control when they go to the bathroom and how much

> they go, really cannot control that--or anything else--to the extent

> that they say they can. That's why we have so many fat people in the

> USA: nobody wants to admit that they can't control food--and can't

> diet.

>

> There are lots of fat people BECAUSE DIETS DON'T WORK! The only

> other possibility is that there are lots of fat people BECAUSE THEY

> WANT TO BE FAT!

>

> Well, perhaps the latter is a very good reason. I suspect that many

> people who go on diets really want to be fat, but they don't want

> anybody to know they want to be fat, so they go on diets to fool

> other people and make them think they don't want to be fat.

>

> In that case, the first requirement for losing weight is an honest

> desire to lose weight. Let's be real. Not very many people who are

> on diets want to pay the price or give up what they have to give up

> in order to do so. Thus, a diet is a clever way for these people to

> fool themselves and everybody else about their unwillingness to lose

> weight. It's the high percentage of this kind of person out there

> that makes diets so unsuccessful.

>

> I admit that I am weak. That is the strength of my diet and exercise

> program. I don't try to do things I don't want to do, or cannot do.

>

> Ron McClure

>

> , Sant & Brown

> <santbrown@l...> wrote:

> > Well, Ron, diets may not work for you - but your current lifestyle

> > change also involves a change of diet - and *that* diet seems to be

> > working for you very nicely ;=) Great that you lost some weight -

> great

> > that you feel good on what you're eating and with what you're doing!

> >

> > But I guess you are talking about fad reducing diets. They work for

> some

> > people, they really do. And there are all sorts of fad diets around,

> > including some we make up for ourselves. My favourite diet, and it

> > certainly works, is to eat less. I just continue with what I've

> always

> > been eating - and that is a healthy vegetarian diet - but eat

> smaller

> > portions. And of course I cut down on the very foods that are known

> to

> > be, excuse the term ;=), high in calories. I am not now cutting any

> > particular foods out of my daily regime except for sugar (who needs

> it -

> > except half a tsp in a whole recipe sometimes - but not white sugar)

> > butter (i'm ovo-lacto) and whole-milk yoghurt. Eggs are pretty

> rare, but

> > since I still eat one now and then in something or other, I call

> myself

> > ovo as well ;=) Btw, I should mention that I can do this because

> eggs

> > per se are not high in calories and because I do not have a

> cholesterol

> > problem. White flour and white rice are not on the cards whether or

> not

> > I am trying to lose a little weight - except sometimes once in a

> blue

> > moon at a restaurant - there are no vegetarian restaurants in

> London,

> > Ontario.

> >

> > I must say that if you have, in the last week, cut yourself off from

> > cigarettes (you were smoking up until then, I assume) and alcohol

> > (drinking regularly if not to excess, I assume), then you are to be

> > congratulated again! It is difficult *not* to gain weight when

> either

> > cigarettes or alcohol is first given up. But it gets better -

> really it

> > does ;=) Btw, you do know, don't you, that the current thinking is

> that

> > a little alcohol is actually *good* for lowering your cholesterol -

> not

> > good enough to start drinking if you're a non-drinker, of course,

> but

> > certainly good enough to have the occasional glass of wine if you

> are

> > already accustomed to it. Unless, of course, your doctor has

> dictated

> > otherwise ;=) And of course that exercise you are starting to take

> is a

> > grand idea!

> >

> > best,

> > pat

> > --

> > PAT (In London, Ontario)

> > Email List: townhounds-

> > (townhounds/)

> > Personal Email: SANTBROWN@L...

> > Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

> > ----------

> > * " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things,

> man

> > will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

> > * " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

> > * " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

> > ----------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave:

 

I don't know if you have ever had the experience, but if you have

ever tried to talk sense to a smoker about smoking then you will know

what I am talking about. Smokers apparently cannot talk rationally

about smoking cigarettes because they are so emotionally controlled

by their addiction.

 

Food is an addiction. There are mental aspects to dieting. Some

people are so emotionally invested in their chips and dips that they

cannot understand that the only rational way to deal with chips and

dips is to give them up completely.

 

I think Pat is one of those people. In my opinion, she will never

lose that 100 pounds until she is willing to give up chips and dips.

But she is not even willing to talk about the POSSIBILITY that this

would be one way for her to lose 100 lbs and keep it off.

 

For this reason, there is no more reason for me to talk with Pat

about dieting than to talk with a smoker about quitting smoking. I'd

sooner talk with a fence post, or a door knob.

 

Ron McClure

 

, " daveo " <daveo@m...> wrote:

> >>...When you see one of my posts, please

> realize that I am not talking to you.<<

>

> Get real, guys!!! You post to a list, you are talking to everybody

on the

> list. Why would you think otherwise?

>

> Dave

[Guest guest]

> I think many of us are losing our

> patience here because you make us all feel like we are under attack

> when we say anything that you might not agree with.

>

 

Indeed - I certainly do. And I hesitate every time I answer anything on

this list because I can just hear someone called Ron out there gearing

up to tell me I am wrong wrong wrong.

 

best,

pat

---

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------

[Guest guest]

>Ron: I have the same problem you do with chips and dips--that's why I

>don't eat the first one: I cannot moderate and control the amount of

>chips and dips that I eat, therefore, I totally renounce chips and

>dips. I abstain entirely from chips and dips.

 

 

Gotcha. I actually do that. They are not allowed in my house except

for special occasions or not at all. But there they are on the

buffet. At the reception. At the wedding. At the church potluck. At

the office birthday party, etc. etc. And there I am face down in the

bowl. I can resolve to abstain. I don't know how to *actually*

abstain.

 

>What's so bitchy about that?

 

:-) your early posts sounded extremely angry and confrontative. I was

teasing you about it.

 

Susan

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Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

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[Guest guest]

Susan:

 

Hope you don't mind if I say that you appear to be eating for

pleasure, comfort, escape, recreation, entertainment, etc.

 

I think it is a waste of time for a person to diet who is not willing

to put health and wellness, weight loss, conditioning or something

besides pleasure and comfort in first priority.

 

Ron McClure

 

, Susan Cogan <susan-

brassfield@o...> wrote:

> >Pat:

> >

> >I found your response to be very tactful and polite, but very

> >complicated. After I had read the whole message I had the feeling

> >that I should read it again in order to understand what it said.

> >This is precisely what I don't like about diets. Diets have so

many

> >details, complications, and require so much effort, discipline,

> >moderation and control that I cannot succeed with them.

> >

> >--When I need to go to the bathroom--I need to go to the

bathroom!!

> >There's no sense trying to CONTROL IT! I'm pretty much the same

way

> >when I get hungry. WHEN I GET HUNGRY, I NEED TO FIND SOMETHING TO

> >EAT!!!!

> >

> >The first rule of my lifestyle change is: DO NOT GET HUNGRY. The

> >second rule is: EAT ALL THE LOW-CARBOHYDRATE VEGETABLES I WANT,

> >WHENEVER I WANT, AS MUCH AS I WANT. In short, all I have to do is

> >make a decision one time to abstain from sugar (and some other

> >substances) and then go about my life. I don't have to carry an

> >encyclopedia of rules around in my head all the time.

>

>

> this sounds like some thoughtful advice. I'm going to think about

it.

>

>

> >There are lots of fat people BECAUSE DIETS DON'T WORK! The only

> >other possibility is that there are lots of fat people BECAUSE THEY

> >WANT TO BE FAT!

>

>

> I don't think this is true. I think that people can make an

> *intellectual* connection between eating and fat, but they cannot

> make an *emotional* connection. The only connection is with the

taste

> and the sensation of being hungry. You don't wake up weighing 400

lbs

> after an evening of pizza and beer. The next day nothing's

different.

> I could be days or weeks before the consequences creep up.

>

>

>

> >Well, perhaps the latter is a very good reason. I suspect that

many

> >people who go on diets really want to be fat, but they don't want

> >anybody to know they want to be fat, so they go on diets to fool

> >other people and make them think they don't want to be fat.

>

>

> nah. People go on diets because they want their pizza evenings but

> they don't want the *consequences* of those wonderful pleasures.

It's

> hard to make yourself believe that something that feels so good

could

> be so bad. Especially when nothing bad happens right away.

>

> >In that case, the first requirement for losing weight is an honest

> >desire to lose weight. Let's be real. Not very many people who

are

> >on diets want to pay the price or give up what they have to give up

> >in order to do so. Thus, a diet is a clever way for these people

to

> >fool themselves and everybody else about their unwillingness to

lose

> >weight. It's the high percentage of this kind of person out there

> >that makes diets so unsuccessful.

> >

> >I admit that I am weak. That is the strength of my diet and

exercise

> >program. I don't try to do things I don't want to do, or cannot

do.

>

> well, I don't want to eat a pile of partially cooked salt-free, fat

> free vegetables when everyone else is eating cake and pizza. I've

> never been able to do it--well, actually a few times I *have* done

it

> and then binged on six times the calories later. But then, of

course,

> that illustrates your final point :-)

>

> Susan

> --

> ---------

> Please visit my website:

> http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

>

> Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

> the next few months:

> http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

> >>...When you see one of my posts, please

>realize that I am not talking to you.<<

>

>Get real, guys!!! You post to a list, you are talking to everybody on the

>list. Why would you think otherwise?

>

>Dave

 

yes. It's very clear who is posting in the " from " line. There's

nothing wrong with hitting the delete button or the " next " button and

not bothering with someone who isn't in a conversation you want to be

in.

 

Susan

--

---------

Please visit my website:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

 

Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

the next few months:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html