B-12

[Guest guest]

Nora Lenz Monday, June 20, 2005 10:35 AM Re:

[Rawschool] B-12

Hi Elchanan, and all,

The tests are not 'well-regarded' by everyone, including myself and many

others. Additionally, supplementing may be 'relatively' benign, depending

on what you're comparing it to, but it is definitely not benign and is

effective only in making the sufferer believe that since symptoms are

thereafter changed or absent, a deficiency indeed existed. Anyone who

suspects a deficiency of any sort is best served by looking at and resolving

the thousands of mistakes that are causing the problems before submitting to

deficiency testing, and certainly before supplementing. Unfortunately,

resolving mistakes usually is the last thing people think to do, thanks to

the ridiculous and baseless B12 hysteria.

I offer the following excerpt from a post by Robert Rust on the topic of

B12 testing and its flaws. If anyone would like to see the whole essay

again, let me know and I'll be happy to repost it. Enjoy.

Nora

 

Robert wrote: " Any " test " for b12 deficiency MUST ADDRESS and RESOLVE the

following important issues, among others:

 

1. what TYPE or TYPES {TYPES(S)}, of the various types of b12, is used or

are used by the body?

2. Is the particular body under investigation able to DIGEST the TYPE(S) of

b12?

3. Is the particular body under investigation able to ABSORB through the

various digestive, protective, and other cellular membranes of the body,

these TYPE(S) of b12?

4. Is the particular body under investigation able to ASSIMILATE in its

cells (ie, use in its chemical processes) these TYPE(S) of b12?

5. What TYPE(S) of b12 are in the person's blood stream, urine, lymph, and

other tissues and are these TYPE(S) being excreted as normal wastes or are

they actually being used beneficially?

6. Are excreted b12 TYPE(S) indicative of the wrongful nature of the b12

TYPE(S) or of the body's inability to USE the b12 TYPE(S), if these TYPE(S)

have been determined to be USEABLE TYPE(S)?

7. What are the normal LEVELS (or quantities and concentrations) of ALL b12

TYPES in a truly HEALTHY person?

8. What is the normal RANGE (or VARIANCE) of ALL b12 levels in a truly

HEALTHY person from hour to hour, day to day, week to week?

9. What are all the OTHER NUTRIENTS that are needed to work in conjunction

with the correct types of b12 in order for them to be used?

10. What are the normal LEVELS and RANGES of other nutrients in the body

that are required for correct b12 metabolism?

11. How does Wholeness, Ripeness, Fullness, Completeness of Food forms

affect digestion, absorption, and assimilation of b12 in the body?

12. What SUBSTANCES, especially commonly eaten or absorbed substances,

INTERFERE with, OVERBURDEN, or otherwise COMPROMISE, or the body's b12

metabolism.

13. What other common or less common PRACTICES or ACTIVITIES interfere with,

overburden, or otherwise compromise a body's b12 metabolism?

14. IF b12 deficiency can be established in a human, what are the SYMPTOMS

that are SPECIFIC to and ONLY specific to this deficiency?

15. IF b12 deficiency can be established in a human, what are the SYMPTOMS

that are GENERAL to this deficiency (meaning what OTHER deficiencies or

problems share these general symptoms)?

 

Endless other questions could be posed, yet even from the short list above

one can deduce that it is terribly difficult to establish what a b12

deficiency is or how it comes to be, let alone what its symptoms are. This

complicated process would involve subjective and objective factors in each

individual case, as the testing system, assuming it was truly accurate in

all cases, was applied to the individual. The testing system itself would be

difficult to establish as giving anything other than probabilities, due the

infinite complexity of the human body and the added dimensions of the

infinite external activities and influences that can affect the human body.

Many, many, many tests and a whole lot of subjective analysis would be

required. And the end result would only be a probability. No one would know

for sure, even after all that effort. For instance, there could be other

elements, as yet undiscovered by science, missing from the person's body or

diet that contribute to the problems.

 

If b12 is missing from a diet, the only truthful, irrefutable, and logical

conclusion that can be made is that the diet and other lifestyle factors are

not whole. In regards to diet, our bodies are whole organisms that require

food in its whole form so that they can get wholly what they need from

foods. That is, we need to get not just ALL the parts that make up our

natural foods, but to be completely healthy for the long term, we need to

get ALL those parts ALL TOGETHER at once, WHOLLY TOGETHER, in WHOLE form,

FULLY and NATURALLY BALANCED, so that WE ourselves may remain that way as we

bring the food into us. As Nature doesn't provide us with b12 trees, vitamin

A bunnies, protein popsicles, glucose bushes, magnesium plants, or

tri-glyceride turnips, we don't need to pursue individual elements, and its

unwise and harmful to do so. Pursuing b12 from a testing perspective is

pursuing health from an unwhole perspective and can only lead to unwholeness

in the long run.

 

The b12 tests of today are predominantly all SINGLE tests of ONE simple

little aspect of just ONE of the questions asked above. These tests are thus

COMPLETELY unscientific and are absolutely INCAPABLE of allowing anyone to

make any kind of judgment on whether the person subjected to the test is b12

deficient or not. The tests, whether one or two together, have just as much,

and probably MORE, ability in determining whether SANTA CLAUS exists or not.

The individual tests are inherently useless as anything other than a part of

a complete and proper scientific investigation, which in itself would be

necessarily incomplete because not all known nutrients have been discovered

yet. As individual or even combined tests, they can only be used by profit

motivated con-artists to manipulate the actions of a fear-based,

misinformed, gullible, and therefore highly susceptible public.

 

It is astute to note that ALL supplement programs must address similar

questions as posed above, and since they, like the b12 tests, DO NOT, their

unscientific and false natures are demonstrated as clearly as the FALSE

nature of the common b12 testing programs used to determine b12 deficiency.

 

Our current economic system is largely driven by the commercial

prostitutionalizaton of science. The scientific process has been misused and

abused by self-interested parties seeking to gain personal fortunes instead

of truth. Truth has been waylaid, and that is why those parties that push

illogical testing programs and supplements in general are always opposed to

complete scientific inquiry. They make extra-ordinary claims that can't be

backed up by truthful science, and when those that are more truth-motivated

complain, these pill pushers and test touters, instead of opening their

claims up to scientific ( rational, unbiased, critical, orderly, well

documented and supported) inspection, proceed to create SPIN by accusing

their " attackers " of being ignorant, unwhole in approach, " scientific " , and

so on. " [snip]

_____

 

Nora, the old blood serum tests are flawed, always have been. But the test I

mentioned is newer technology, and, as I understand it, this newer test

checks for the presence of the actual coenzymes, not any manufactured

substance. (But I have not checked this out to the " Nth degree. " )

 

By now, most of those in these groups know that I am a rather fervent

advocate of creating health from within, of avoiding all manner of treatment

in general. But it would be mindlessly absurd and utterly self-destructive

behavior if we were to ignore that our species is well along into changing

the environment (i.e., Nature itself).

 

B12 is bacteria poop, and we are indeed managing to wipe out a large portion

of the producing bacteria population that " normally " lives throughout

Nature. Here we have a situation emerging that is affecting the entire

population, not just RFs or vegans or vegetarians or other claims from the

past. The problem is systemic, it is directly traceable to our own

agricultural methods, and it is becoming worse with the passing of time.

This is not hysteria, this is reality, and in my view the NH " religion " is

out of sync with reality. Time to adjust the religion, not ignore the

reality.

 

Of course, there is the problem of determining how much B12 we need, as

always. I DO agree that the current B12 " requirements " are overstated, and

that the requirement is PROBABLY greater for cooked fooders than for RFs.

(But this is an assertion, lacking substantive evidence to back it up.)

 

I agree with Robert's comments in general, that this or any deficiency may

arise from any or a combination of causes other than dietary deficiency. And

I agree that there is a tendency these days to blame all deficiencies on

intake (diet) without looking for other causes such as leaching out, failure

to absorb, etc. I have written extensively on these and related matters in

these groups in the past.

 

Nevertheless, all these things having been said, in my opinion it is not

worth tossing our ability to function on a daily basis (which is NOT the

same thing as health) over a philosophy, and so I would share with people a

somewhat different message than would you, Nora, in this particular

instance.

 

A B12 deficiency is MOST unpleasant, REGARDLESS OF ITS REAL CAUSE, and can

actually render one quite unable to function on a daily basis. I can think

of no reason why one must endure such hardship while ferreting out and

addressing the " real cause(s). " A person faced with severe symptoms AND

appropriate test results may, with the interim use of a B12 supplement,

simply be able to live a normal day-to-day life for awhile as he/she makes

other, more substantive and presumably longer-term changes.

 

Ultimately, I agree that such changes, and not any supplement, constitute

the only path back to health. But I can also see where B12 supplementation

in particular may play a constructive, albeit palliative, role in enabling a

person living in today's society to find his/her way back to health.

 

Please note that my opinion in this matter applies uniquely to B12

supplementation. In general, ALL supplements, from all sources and in any

and all forms (and including B12) are toxic to at least some degree, and NO

supplement ever causes real health. Therefore, I teach that supplements are

to be avoided, across the board.

 

Also, I caution everyone against any sort of self-diagnosis. In fact, I

caution against ANY form of diagnosis, from any source. But if you are

living in fear and you think the best way out is to " find out " about your

B12 level, then get it tested. For fear itself destroys health, and

knowledge displaces fear.

 

I suggest that anyone using a B12 supplement do so only as an interim

solution for symptomatic relief. At the same time, in my opinion, I suggest

that no one destroy his or her life while clinging to a religious

conviction, either.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

 

 

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