Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 In rather uncharacteristic fashion, my responses in this email are inline, not at the end of the originator's writing. Elchanan _____ tev treowlufu Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:50 AM Re: [Raw Food] Seizures, kidneys, cleanses, etc. (WAS: Re: poor kidney function--Bob?) tev> This is excellent info., Elchanan. E> Thank you! tev> I would like to add that most researchers (including Dr. Michael Gershon, author of: " The Second Brain " ) estimate the amount of neurons to be around 200 million (which substaniates the importance of your assertion even more). E> Oops, typo on my part, I left off a zero! Sorry. tev> Also, seizures are not necessarily associated with the frontal lobe. I cite from the following article which shows: at least some seizure activity is normally associated with other regions of the brain (e.g., the temporal); and that the link between seizures and the abdomen isn't clearly established yet (though I believe your assertion is probably true): E> Agreed, most medical folks focus on the frontal lobe seizures, and so I focused my comments there. But the seizures can be in other parts of the brain, and it is even possible, though I don't believe Gershon goes this far, that some seizures aren't " of the brain " at all. As for the link, Gershon is writing from inside " modern science, " and he is unable to establish the causal relationship I posit, at least at a sufficient level to publish " in public. " E> But if you ever have the opportunity to work with someone who has seizures, and if you can get that person to focus his/her attention upon really noticing the experience just before the seizure OR BEFORE AN AURA, almost invariably they'll report feeling something, usually nausea, arising from the abdomen first. In other words, they can distinguish some chain events at a sensory level. tev> " The pathophysiology of abdominal epilepsy remains unclear. Temporal lobe seizure activity usually arises in or involves the amygdala. It is not surprising, therefore, that patients who have seizures involving the temporal lobe have GI symptoms, since discharges arising in the amygdala can be transmitted to the gut via dense direct projections to the dorsal motor nucleus of the vagus. In addition, sympathetic pathways from the amygdala to the GI tract can be activated via the hypothalamus. On the other hand, it is not clear that the initial disturbance in abdominal epilepsy arises in the brain. There are direct sensory pathways from the bowel via the vagus nerve to the solitary nucleus of the medulla which is heavily connected to the amygdala. These can be activated during intestinal contractions " (Peppercorn & Herzog, 1989, p. 1296). E> The thing is, those sensory pathways FROM the bowel are feedback carriers TO the brain, not primarily carriers of " instructions " FROM the brain. The brain is simply too far away, if the liver and other vital organs had to wait that long to receive " instructions, " we would literally perish. Some, not limited by the constraints of contemporary scientific publishing, have realized this for more than a century. tev> " One of the primary problems in understanding abdominal epilepsy is clearly defining the relationship of the abdominal symptoms to the seizure activity in the brain. In other words, what is the pathophysiology of abdominal epilepsy? Is the essential pathology in certain areas of the brain which happen to be connected to the abdominal organs? Or, is the primary pathology in the abdomen, which is conveyed through connecting nerve fibers to the brain, resulting in epileptic seizures? " E> Spoken with the careful, self-protective equivocation of a present-day scientist. He's got it, he knows it, but he cannot say it without risking damage to his career and probably his funding. So he writes this, instead. If we could get him in a private conversation and he KNEW there were no recording devices present .... http://www.meridianinstitute.com/ceu/ceu12abd.html tev> Human beings exhibit a tendency, IMO, toward a certain hubris, and I believe we need to keep ourselves under critical regulation. E> Not sure of your intent here. Have a great day! Elchanan -- ------------------------ [ SECURITY NOTICE ] ------------------------ rawfood , rawschool . 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Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Elchanan, I've noticed that you fashion your responses utilizing various styles. What relevance does that have to this discussion? Is there some implication one should derive from the notice with which you preface your reply? ....I am not trying to be dismissive of the seizure-abdomen connection. They probably are associated. I do side with the scientific method, however, and believe, like the researchers I cited, that more study and substantiation is needed in order to understand the exact relationship. Here's an additional citing from that article: Abdominal Epilepsy The association of abdominal symptoms with epilepsy has been recognized for many years. For example, “gastric and intestinal disturbances” were viewed as primary etiological factors by medical doctors during the late 19th and early twentieth century (Dercum, 1912, p. 917). http://www.meridianinstitute.com/ceu/ceu12abd.html The information via the link (which isn't Gershon) simply shows that research is still being conducted on the phenomena. Your dismissiveness of another's research ( " Spoken with the careful, self-protective equivocation of a present-day scientist. He's got it, he knows it, but he cannot say it without risking damage to his career and probably his funding. So he writes this, instead. If we could get him in a private conversation and he KNEW there were no recording devices present .... " ) is unjust and unreasonable, and presumptious villification. The first cited quote that I cited in my original reply was merely an attempt to contrast your claim that seizures are a frontal lobe phenomena, with the FACT that many seizures occur in other brain regions. IOW, your statement was incorrect and misleading. The second cited quote illustrated the point that further and intensive research needs to be continued. If you have research evidence that clearly substantiates the seizure-abdomen connection, please post it. Main Entry: hu·bris Pronunciation: 'hyü-br & s Function: noun Etymology: Greek hybris : exaggerated pride or self-confidence - hu·bris·tic /hyü-'bris-tik/ adjective swaraj, tev " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote: In rather uncharacteristic fashion, my responses in this email are inline, not at the end of the originator's writing. Elchanan _____ tev treowlufu Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:50 AM Re: [Raw Food] Seizures, kidneys, cleanses, etc. (WAS: Re: poor kidney function--Bob?) tev> This is excellent info., Elchanan. E> Thank you! tev> I would like to add that most researchers (including Dr. Michael Gershon, author of: " The Second Brain " ) estimate the amount of neurons to be around 200 million (which substaniates the importance of your assertion even more). E> Oops, typo on my part, I left off a zero! Sorry. tev> Also, seizures are not necessarily associated with the frontal lobe. I cite from the following article which shows: at least some seizure activity is normally associated with other regions of the brain (e.g., the temporal); and that the link between seizures and the abdomen isn't clearly established yet (though I believe your assertion is probably true): E> Agreed, most medical folks focus on the frontal lobe seizures, and so I focused my comments there. But the seizures can be in other parts of the brain, and it is even possible, though I don't believe Gershon goes this far, that some seizures aren't " of the brain " at all. As for the link, Gershon is writing from inside " modern science, " and he is unable to establish the causal relationship I posit, at least at a sufficient level to publish " in public. " E> But if you ever have the opportunity to work with someone who has seizures, and if you can get that person to focus his/her attention upon really noticing the experience just before the seizure OR BEFORE AN AURA, almost invariably they'll report feeling something, usually nausea, arising from the abdomen first. In other words, they can distinguish some chain events at a sensory level. tev> " The pathophysiology of abdominal epilepsy remains unclear. Temporal lobe seizure activity usually arises in or involves the amygdala. It is not surprising, therefore, that patients who have seizures involving the temporal lobe have GI symptoms, since discharges arising in the amygdala can be transmitted to the gut via dense direct projections to the dorsal motor nucleus of the vagus. In addition, sympathetic pathways from the amygdala to the GI tract can be activated via the hypothalamus. On the other hand, it is not clear that the initial disturbance in abdominal epilepsy arises in the brain. There are direct sensory pathways from the bowel via the vagus nerve to the solitary nucleus of the medulla which is heavily connected to the amygdala. These can be activated during intestinal contractions " (Peppercorn & Herzog, 1989, p. 1296). E> The thing is, those sensory pathways FROM the bowel are feedback carriers TO the brain, not primarily carriers of " instructions " FROM the brain. The brain is simply too far away, if the liver and other vital organs had to wait that long to receive " instructions, " we would literally perish. Some, not limited by the constraints of contemporary scientific publishing, have realized this for more than a century. tev> " One of the primary problems in understanding abdominal epilepsy is clearly defining the relationship of the abdominal symptoms to the seizure activity in the brain. In other words, what is the pathophysiology of abdominal epilepsy? Is the essential pathology in certain areas of the brain which happen to be connected to the abdominal organs? Or, is the primary pathology in the abdomen, which is conveyed through connecting nerve fibers to the brain, resulting in epileptic seizures? " E> Spoken with the careful, self-protective equivocation of a present-day scientist. He's got it, he knows it, but he cannot say it without risking damage to his career and probably his funding. So he writes this, instead. If we could get him in a private conversation and he KNEW there were no recording devices present .... http://www.meridianinstitute.com/ceu/ceu12abd.html tev> Human beings exhibit a tendency, IMO, toward a certain hubris, and I believe we need to keep ourselves under critical regulation. E> Not sure of your intent here. Have a great day! Elchanan The experience of dynamic religious living transforms the mediocre individual into a personality of idealistic power. Religion ministers to the progress of all through fostering the progress of each individual, and the progress of each is augmented through the achievement of all. [The Urantia Book: 1094:1] Make your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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