XPOST [SFBAVeg]: Supplementation: Sunshine vs. Vitamin D supplementation (WAS: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?)

[Guest guest]

Hi Melissa, and thank you for responding. Here are a couple of thoughts regarding what you say, below:

 

1. I hear what you are saying about exposing the arms, legs, etc. for some period of time each day. Honestly, I don't know where this idea arose that one must expose (nearly) all of oneself for such-and-such many minutes daily in order to trigger adequate vitamin D production. It's just plain false. The human species ... that's us ... is designed with considerable physical tolerance, we can live in at least reasonable health in many environments. So, for example, a person sitting fairly bare-skinned in front of a large window, peacefully reading a book or taking a nap, would get enough sun exposure to trigger at least some D production, as long as the window is not blocking out most of the UV part of the spectrum. (We do that nowadays, unfortunately.)

 

Remember, vitamin D is fat-soluble ... our bodies can store it for extended periods of time. If we get outdoors as much as we can during the most inviting months, then any reasonable effort at getting outside the rest of the year should be at least adequate, if not optimal.

 

Have you (or anyone you've known) ever experienced a sunburn ... under a t-shirt? UV rays are not fully blocked by lightweight clothing. So even the bare skin is not essential, though it is obviously desirable.

 

And let's all be honest with ourselves here. I've known people from all over the world, from cold, cold climates ... Alaska, Sweden, Finland, Siberia, and so forth. All of these people go outside, all year long. To do otherwise is to make oneself a prisoner in one's own home. So, in the vernacular of today, let's all "man up!" and get outside!!! :)

 

Or move ... I would never wish to suggest that there is only one available option.

 

2. Again, I hear what you are saying about melanoma (skin cancer, generally speaking). There surely has been much said and much published about sunshine causing cancer. So I urge you not to scoff when I tell you that absolutely none of that is true. Sunshine, per se, does not cause any form of cancer in any animal on Earth. Now, if one eats a nutritionally horrid diet (common nowadays), consumes lots of poisons (almost universal nowadays), lives almost entirely indoors (ubiquitous nowadays in the more "advanced" societies), and then slathers on "sunscreen" and goes into the sun for hours and hours, then stops for days, weeks, or months, then goes out again, then stops again ... well, sure, such a person will eventually destroy one or more parts of him/herself, resulting in cancer and all sorts of other problems. But the sun is not the cause of any of them.

 

There is ample evidence, all over the world, that this is so. Millions upon millions of people labor outdoors all day, every day, in the tropics and subtropics, and no one ever experiences any form of melanoma. Their ancestors have lived similarly for millennia. Saying that the sun causes skin cancer is roughly akin, in intelligence, to saying that sunrise causes traffic jams in Los Angeles. They may occur in some correlated fashion, but there is no causal relationship whatsoever. And no amount of absurd studies can ever change that, any more than millions chanting "The Earth is flat, the Earth is flat" can ever make it so.

 

Make sense?Elchanan

 

 

vegan4animalsSent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:35 AMElchananCc: Janice Rothstein; SFBAVeg Subject: Re: Supplementation: Sunshine vs. Vitamin D supplementation (WAS: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?)

I agree that sunshine is the best way to get your Vitamin D levels up, but it is not always feasible for everyone to get out with your arms, legs, and back exposed for the 10-30 minutes daily or at least a few times per week that is recommended and one also has to balance not getting skin cancer. Some people may have a history of that and need to be cautious. Yes, I know such little sun exposure may not cause skin cancer in most, but one has to balance...

 

Melissa

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Elchanan <Elchanan wrote:

 

 

Hi Janice, Melissa, and everyone,

 

May I suggest that you take a step back and give yourself an opportunity to form a new perspective here?

 

Far and away, you are your own best source of vitamin D. Since you (presumably) live in the San Francisco bay area, I'm guessing that you can easily get enough sunshine to trigger adequate D3 (cholecalciferol) production in your own skin.

 

D2 (ergocalciferol) is manufactured by plants. You may wish to know that D2 has a rather short shelf-life and is not well metabolized in any primate species, including humans. That is, the serum level doesn't change much in response to D2 supplementation. In other words, it may not serve as an effective supplement.

 

D3 supplements have a longer shelf-life and are indeed better metabolized. But synthetic D3 functions in the human body as a steroid, and taking D3 supplements, particularly for an extended period of time, would be akin to taking prednisone.

 

So save your money and save yourself ... go outside and play today!

 

Make sense?Elchanan

 

 

vegan4animalsSent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:08 PMJanice RothsteinCc: SFBAVeg Subject: Re: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?

VegLife makes a 2000iu Vegan D2. Here's a link from Vegan Essentials:

 

http://www.veganessentials.com/catalog/veglife-supreme-vegan-vitamin-d2-capsules.htm

 

I special ordered it from Whole Foods.

 

When I looked into it last year, the 50,000iu at Kaiser had gelatin in it. So, I had it made in a liquid at a compunding pharmacy. Here's a link to compounding pharmacies in California.

 

http://www.findings.net/sucompoundingCA.html

 

But when I took that high dose for 16 weeks, it barely raised my Vitamin D level...

 

Melissa

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Janice Rothstein <bikegata wrote:

 

 

 

Hi all,Can anyone recommend very high dose vegan Vit. D, which I guess would be the D2?My dr at Kaiser claims my dexa bone scan results put me in the "oseopenia" dangerrange, and the blood draw result for Vit D was incredibly low. She's recommending50,000units/week of Vit. D. Rainbow is out of their only vegan Vit. D, and it's only 400IU'sanyway, so I'd have to take a mountain of them. She's waiting for someone at the pharmacyto return from vacation to ask whether Kaiser's own Vit. D,which she's willing to prescribe forme, is animal based or not.She's also recommending 1500mb Calcium/day, either by supplements or diet. Any ideas?Thanks in advance,Janice

[Guest guest]

I have pasted a concise article on issues surrounding Vitamin D. While sunlight is the best form of vitamin D, Vitamin D deficiency is a serious condition that is chronic in the U.S. and should not be taken lightly.

 

"The season, time of day, geography, latitude, level of air pollution, color of your skin, and your age all affect your skin's ability to produce vitamin D....."

 

'"Darker skinned people need 5-10 times as much exposure to synthesize the same amount of vitamin D as lighter skinned people," says vitamin D expert Michael Holick, PhD, MD.' http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/are-you-getting-enough-vitamin-d?page=2 and " The older we get, the harder it is for UV-B rays to turn cholesterol to vitamin D..." http://www.glutathionediseasecure.com/vitamin-d-deficiency.html and "The further you live from the equator, the longer exposure you need to the sun in order to generate vitamin D. Canada, the UK and most U.S. states are far from the equator. (http://www.naturalnews.com/003069.html).

 

 

Beth Seligman, N.E.

 

Below is an excerpt from an article from Natural News:(http://www.naturalnews.com/003069.html)

 

Fifteen facts you probably never knew about vitamin D and sunlight exposure.(Compiled by Mike Adams, based on an interview with Dr. Michael Holick, author, The UV Advantage)

Vitamin D prevents osteoporosis, depression, prostate cancer, breast cancer, and even effects diabetes and obesity. Vitamin D is perhaps the single most underrated nutrient in the world of nutrition. That's probably because it's free: your body makes it when sunlight touches your skin. Drug companies can't sell you sunlight, so there's no promotion of its health benefits. Truth is, most people don't know the real story on vitamin D and health. So here's an overview taken from an interview between Mike Adams and Dr. Michael Holick.

Vitamin D is produced by your skin in response to exposure to ultraviolet radiation from natural sunlight. The healing rays of natural sunlight (that generate vitamin D in your skin) cannot penetrate glass. So you don't generate vitamin D when sitting in your car or home. It is nearly impossible to get adequate amounts of vitamin D from your diet. Sunlight exposure is the only reliable way to generate vitamin D in your own body. A person would have to drink ten tall glasses of vitamin D fortified milk each day just to get minimum levels of vitamin D into their diet. The further you live from the equator, the longer exposure you need to the sun in order to generate vitamin D. Canada, the UK and most U.S. states are far from the equator. People with dark skin pigmentation may need 20 - 30 times as much exposure to sunlight as fair-skinned people to generate the same amount of vitamin D. That's why prostate cancer is epidemic among black men -- it's a simple, but widespread, sunlight deficiency. Sufficient levels of vitamin D are crucial for calcium absorption in your intestines. Without sufficient vitamin D, your body cannot absorb calcium, rendering calcium supplements useless. Chronic vitamin D deficiency cannot be reversed overnight: it takes months of vitamin D supplementation and sunlight exposure to rebuild the body's bones and nervous system. Even weak sunscreens (SPF=8) block your body's ability to generate vitamin D by 95%. This is how sunscreen products actually cause disease -- by creating a critical vitamin deficiency in the body. It is impossible to generate too much vitamin D in your body from sunlight exposure: your body will self-regulate and only generate what it needs. If it hurts to press firmly on your sternum, you may be suffering from chronic vitamin D deficiency right now. Vitamin D is "activated" in your body by your kidneys and liver before it can be used. Having kidney disease or liver damage can greatly impair your body's ability to activate circulating vitamin D. The sunscreen industry doesn't want you to know that your body actually needs sunlight exposure because that realization would mean lower sales of sunscreen products. Even though vitamin D is one of the most powerful healing chemicals in your body, your body makes it absolutely free. No prescription required.

On the issue of sunlight exposure, by the way, it turns out that super antioxidants greatly boost your body's ability to handle sunlight without burning. Astaxanthin is one of the most powerful "internal sunscreens" and can allow you to stay under the sun twice as long without burning. Other powerful antioxidants with this ability include the superfruits like Acai, Pomegranates (POM Wonderful juice), blueberries, etc.

Diseases and conditions cause by vitamin D deficiency:

 

Osteoporosis is commonly caused by a lack of vitamin D, which greatly impairs calcium absorption. Sufficient vitamin D prevents prostate cancer, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, depression, colon cancer and schizophrenia. "Rickets" is the name of a bone-wasting disease caused by vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D deficiency may exacerbate type 2 diabetes and impair insulin production in the pancreas. Obesity impairs vitamin D utilization in the body, meaning obese people need twice as much vitamin D. Vitamin D is used around the world to treat Psoriasis. Vitamin D deficiency causes schizophrenia. Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by a melatonin imbalance initiated by lack of exposure to sunlight. Chronic vitamin D deficiency is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia because its symptoms are so similar: muscle weakness, aches and pains. Your risk of developing serious diseases like diabetes and cancer is reduced 50% - 80% through simple, sensible exposure to natural sunlight 2-3 times each week. Infants who receive vitamin D supplementation (2000 units daily) have an 80% reduced risk of developing type 1 diabetes over the next twenty years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Limitations of Vitamin D From the Sun

"If your skin color is lighter, there is a better chance of deeper penetration by UV-B rays. This means a decreased need of exposure to make adequate vitamin D production. The darker your skin, the the more UV-B ray exposure to penetrate it and produce vitamin D.

Time of year can affect how much sunlight you get. People living above 35 degrees latitude north or south will get little to no UV-B rays from early fall to late spring. Altitude or the higher you live above sea level results in increased UV-B rays exposure.

Both pollution and clouds decrease the ammount of UV-B rays that you skin can turn into vitamin D.

The older we get, the harder it is for UV-B rays to turn cholesterol to vitamin D..."

http://www.glutathionediseasecure.com/vitamin-d-deficiency.html

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, Elchanan <Elchanan wrote:

Elchanan <ElchananXPOST [sFBAVeg]: Supplementation: Sunshine vs. Vitamin D supplementation (WAS: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?)"Path of Health" <PathOfHealth >Cc: "Going Raw" <GoingRaw (AT) Groups (DOT) com>, SFBAVeg , HealthyLiving4Him Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 4:47 PM

 

Hi Melissa, and thank you for responding. Here are a couple of thoughts regarding what you say, below:

 

1. I hear what you are saying about exposing the arms, legs, etc. for some period of time each day. Honestly, I don't know where this idea arose that one must expose (nearly) all of oneself for such-and-such many minutes daily in order to trigger adequate vitamin D production. It's just plain false. The human species ... that's us ... is designed with considerable physical tolerance, we can live in at least reasonable health in many environments. So, for example, a person sitting fairly bare-skinned in front of a large window, peacefully reading a book or taking a nap, would get enough sun exposure to trigger at least some D production, as long as the window is not blocking out most of the UV part of the spectrum. (We do that nowadays, unfortunately. )

 

Remember, vitamin D is fat-soluble ... our bodies can store it for extended periods of time. If we get outdoors as much as we can during the most inviting months, then any reasonable effort at getting outside the rest of the year should be at least adequate, if not optimal.

 

Have you (or anyone you've known) ever experienced a sunburn ... under a t-shirt? UV rays are not fully blocked by lightweight clothing. So even the bare skin is not essential, though it is obviously desirable.

 

And let's all be honest with ourselves here. I've known people from all over the world, from cold, cold climates ... Alaska, Sweden, Finland, Siberia, and so forth. All of these people go outside, all year long. To do otherwise is to make oneself a prisoner in one's own home. So, in the vernacular of today, let's all "man up!" and get outside!!! :)

 

Or move ... I would never wish to suggest that there is only one available option.

 

2. Again, I hear what you are saying about melanoma (skin cancer, generally speaking). There surely has been much said and much published about sunshine causing cancer. So I urge you not to scoff when I tell you that absolutely none of that is true. Sunshine, per se, does not cause any form of cancer in any animal on Earth. Now, if one eats a nutritionally horrid diet (common nowadays), consumes lots of poisons (almost universal nowadays), lives almost entirely indoors (ubiquitous nowadays in the more "advanced" societies), and then slathers on "sunscreen" and goes into the sun for hours and hours, then stops for days, weeks, or months, then goes out again, then stops again ... well, sure, such a person will eventually destroy one or more parts of him/herself, resulting in cancer and all sorts of other problems. But the sun is not the cause of any of them.

 

 

There is ample evidence, all over the world, that this is so. Millions upon millions of people labor outdoors all day, every day, in the tropics and subtropics, and no one ever experiences any form of melanoma. Their ancestors have lived similarly for millennia. Saying that the sun causes skin cancer is roughly akin, in intelligence, to saying that sunrise causes traffic jams in Los Angeles. They may occur in some correlated fashion, but there is no causal relationship whatsoever. And no amount of absurd studies can ever change that, any more than millions chanting "The Earth is flat, the Earth is flat" can ever make it so.

 

Make sense?Elchanan

 

 

vegan4animals@ gmail.comThursday, January 28, 2010 11:35 AMElchananCc: Janice Rothstein; SFBAVeg@ .com Re: Supplementation: Sunshine vs. Vitamin D supplementation (WAS: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?)

I agree that sunshine is the best way to get your Vitamin D levels up, but it is not always feasible for everyone to get out with your arms, legs, and back exposed for the 10-30 minutes daily or at least a few times per week that is recommended and one also has to balance not getting skin cancer. Some people may have a history of that and need to be cautious. Yes, I know such little sun exposure may not cause skin cancer in most, but one has to balance...

 

Melissa

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Elchanan <Elchanan@pathofheal th.org> wrote:

 

 

Hi Janice, Melissa, and everyone,

 

May I suggest that you take a step back and give yourself an opportunity to form a new perspective here?

 

Far and away, you are your own best source of vitamin D. Since you (presumably) live in the San Francisco bay area, I'm guessing that you can easily get enough sunshine to trigger adequate D3 (cholecalciferol) production in your own skin.

 

D2 (ergocalciferol) is manufactured by plants. You may wish to know that D2 has a rather short shelf-life and is not well metabolized in any primate species, including humans. That is, the serum level doesn't change much in response to D2 supplementation. In other words, it may not serve as an effective supplement.

 

D3 supplements have a longer shelf-life and are indeed better metabolized. But synthetic D3 functions in the human body as a steroid, and taking D3 supplements, particularly for an extended period of time, would be akin to taking prednisone.

 

So save your money and save yourself ... go outside and play today!

 

Make sense?Elchanan

 

 

vegan4animals@ gmail.comWednesday, January 27, 2010 8:08 PMJanice RothsteinCc: SFBAVeg@ .comRe: Large dose vegan Vit D2? Calcium?

VegLife makes a 2000iu Vegan D2. Here's a link from Vegan Essentials:

 

http://www.veganess entials.com/ catalog/veglife- supreme-vegan- vitamin-d2- capsules. htm

 

I special ordered it from Whole Foods.

 

When I looked into it last year, the 50,000iu at Kaiser had gelatin in it. So, I had it made in a liquid at a compunding pharmacy. Here's a link to compounding pharmacies in California.

 

http://www.findings .net/sucompoundi ngCA.html

 

But when I took that high dose for 16 weeks, it barely raised my Vitamin D level...

 

Melissa

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Janice Rothstein <bikegata (AT) copper (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

Hi all,Can anyone recommend very high dose vegan Vit. D, which I guess would be the D2?My dr at Kaiser claims my dexa bone scan results put me in the "oseopenia" dangerrange, and the blood draw result for Vit D was incredibly low. She's recommending50,000units/ week of Vit. D. Rainbow is out of their only vegan Vit. D, and it's only 400IU'sanyway, so I'd have to take a mountain of them. She's waiting for someone at the pharmacyto return from vacation to ask whether Kaiser's own Vit. D,which she's willing to prescribe forme, is animal based or not.She's also recommending 1500mb Calcium/day, either by supplements or diet. Any ideas?Thanks in advance,Janice