Discussing Jonathan Safran Foer and Eating Animals

[Guest guest]

Hello Brian,

 

As I wrote in the message, there are many reasons why somebody might

choose to be vegetarian. If you are vegetarian to reduce suffering or

because you are against industrialized animal agriculture, that's great.

I didn't write that your reason is invalid, or that your work for Vegan

Outreach is for naught, or that suffering doesn't matter. What I did

write is that Foer's position is not helpful to somebody like myself who

aspires to a vegan world of non-exploitation because Foer actively

advocates for the humane and sustainable exploitation of non-human animals.

 

I never said my argument is " pure and ideal. " All I did was compile a

list of quotes by and about Foer to help us better understand his

position, with no value judgments attached. I also don't know why you

seem to think it's so bad that I advocate for " veganism and nothing but

'the vegan ideal' " . Aren't we each working for what we believe in? We

just happen to be working for different things.

 

The Phelps piece you cited appears to be an attempt to blunt the

increasing popularity of a certain animal rights framework. While my

advocacy is not based on a rights framework, I think the Phelps piece is

really harmful to the ethical vegetarian community because it doesn't

address criticisms of animal welfare advocacy in an intellectually

honest way, instead relying upon straw person arguments, ad hominem

personal attacks, unbacked assertions (such as the quotes you

excerpted), and logical leaps.* It contributes to an environment of

hostility towards a thoughtful discussion of ideas.

 

I'm always happy to engage in a conversation about these issues centered

around ideas and I think we can do so in a respectful, honest, and open

way, honoring people's different motivations for advocating for

non-human animals.

 

Victor

 

* I wrote more about the piece the last time it was posted to SFBAVEG:

/message/16886 If you would like a

detailed deconstruction of the piece, please email me.

 

Brian Grupe wrote:

 

As for focusing on industrial farming and the suffering of animals not

being compatible with the very black and white notion of advocating

veganism and nothing but veganism as " the vegan ideal " , I wanted to

share a quote from an author I respect:

....

Personally, I am not concerned with being able to boast out my chest at

how pure and ideal my argument is (well that's not true, lol. Maybe

it's true about the " pure " part, but I definitely think my argument is

the most logical). I am concerned with approaches that make sense and

reduce the suffering of animals now and in the future, and like Norm

Phelps said, to get people to look at animals as " sentient, sensitive

beings whose well-being is a matter of serious moral concern "

 

--

The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/

Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/