RE: [valleyveg] Jonathan Safran Foer and Eating Animals

[Guest guest]

I haven't read the book yet. A friend of mine was in charge of the signing at UC Berkeley and has a signed copy waiting for me. I can't wait to read it!As for focusing on industrial farming and the suffering of animals not being compatible with the very black and white notion of advocating veganism and nothing but veganism as "the vegan ideal", I wanted to share a quote from an author I respect:"First, campaigns to relieve the worst suffering of animals on factory farms force the public to think of animals as sentient, sensitive beings whose well-being is a matter of serious moral concern. This can only advance, not retard, liberation.

“Out of sight, out of mind,” the saying goes. And reflecting this idea, Sir Paul McCartney has observed that if slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian. How many times have we all heard, “I don’t want to hear about that!” And, “Don’t show me those pictures, or I won’t be able to enjoy my dinner!” Campaigns like those against battery cages and gestation crates force people to hear the horror stories and look at the faces of suffering, whether they want to or not. They open windows in the solid walls of slaughterhouses and confinement sheds. They show the public the truth about these death camps, and even though these campaigns may not lead directly to a vegan world, they are slowly but surely changing the way the public thinks about animals and their suffering. And this sea change in public attitude is an important entryway to a vegan society."Bottom line: Foer's book and groups working on advocating against factory farms reaffirm time and time again that animals are individuals whose well being is something that is important. Every time someone acknowledges the suffering of another, even if they are not yet veg, they remind themselves that animals DO exist in their moral sphere.Like one persistant poster has mentioned multiple times, Foer and his group acknowledge 99% of animals raised for food come from factory farms. A reasonable person, when confronted with such unspeakable suffering, is faced with a choice. Either they ignore it, accept it and stop eating animals, or do their best to go get meat from one of Foer's farms that he supports. If they choose EITHER of the last two, suffering will still be reduced, and suffering matters.Personally, I am not concerned with being able to boast out my chest at how pure and ideal my argument is (well that's not true, lol. Maybe it's true about the "pure" part, but I definitely think my argument is the most logical). I am concerned with approaches that make sense and reduce the suffering of animals now and in the future, and like Norm Phelps said, to get people to look at animals as "sentient, sensitive beings whose well-being is a matter of serious moral concern"To read the full article article, visit: http://www.veganoutreach.org/articles/normphelps.html Brian GrupeNorthern California Outreach CoordinatorVegan OutreachPlease visit: www.adoptacollege.org> valleyveg > victor Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:01:28 -0800> [valleyveg] Jonathan Safran Foer and Eating Animals> > Thank you, Mary, for sharing that interview with Jonathan Safran Foer, > author of "Eating Animals." Since this book has been making the rounds > lately, I started digging a little deeper and thought I'd share what I > found. From all I have read and seen, Foer does a great job of > articulating the problems of industrial animal agriculture and offering > an alternative for people. For example, this is from an article in the > New York Times Magazine, adapted from the book:> > "According to an analysis of U.S.D.A. data by the advocacy group Farm > Forward, factory farms now produce more than 99 percent of the animals > eaten in this country. And despite labels that suggest otherwise, > genuine alternatives — which do exist, and make many of the ethical > questions about meat moot — are very difficult for even an educated > eater to find." http://bit.ly/3ckduW> > It's clear from the excerpt that Foer thinks there is an ethical way to > breed, raise, and kill non-human animals for human use. This is not > surprising, as he is helping to make those genuine alternatives to > factory farmed dairy, eggs, and meat available. The humane and > sustainable animal agriculture advocacy group Farm Forward, of which > Foer is a board member, writes:> > "[Foer's book] articulates so much of Farm Forward’s own philosophy. For > example, Foer singles out Frank Reese as the most important farmer in > America. We’ve felt that way for years. Reese has the ability to > recreate a more humane and sustainable poultry industry, which is why > supporting Reese’s work is taking more of Farm Forward’s attention than > any other project." http://bit.ly/IUAQu> > On a recent appearance on Ellen Degeneres's TV show, Foer offered this > advice to the audience:> > "Get informed. ... Go to a site like FarmForward.com, which has plenty > of information, and it's not just vegetarian information. If you're > somebody who says, 'you know, I have to eat turkey, this is important to > me,' they tell you places to buy it, where the animals are raised > outdoors, aren't fed medicine, the kinds of farms where if you were to > visit them, you would say this is something I'm proud of, my values are > reflected in the way these animals are raised."> > Again, Farm Forward exists expressedly to advocate for humanely > breeding, raising, and killing non-human animals for human use. This is > very much in line with the anti-factory farming position advocated by > Foer (who is only the latest in a string of authors doing the same). > Unfortunately, it is obviously not compatible with the vegan ideal of > non-exploitation.> > If you're interested in reading more on how the sustainable, humane > animal agriculture Foer promotes relates to vegetarianism, please check > out my earlier writing on the topic:> http://loveallbeings.org/blog/sustainable-animal-agriculture-and-ethical-vegetarianism/> > Victor> > -- > The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/> Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/> > > > ---> >

[Guest guest]

Great post Brian and the article that you provided the link to is excellent.

 

I certainly want to do everything I can to reduce suffering and help the billions of animals suffering now. Also, social psychologists know that small changes that people are willing to do lead the way to bigger changes. This has been proven over and over again.  

 

Your post and the article state it very well.  Thanks for posting! 

 

Nettie

 

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Brian Grupe <tricksfortrends wrote:

 

 

 

 

I haven't read the book yet.  A friend of mine was in charge of the signing at UC Berkeley and has a signed copy waiting for me.  I can't wait to read it!As for focusing on industrial farming and the suffering of animals not being compatible with the very black and white notion of advocating veganism and nothing but veganism as " the vegan ideal " , I wanted to share a quote from an author I respect:

" First, campaigns to relieve the worst suffering of animals on factory farms force the public to think of animals as sentient, sensitive beings whose well-being is a matter of serious moral concern. This can only advance, not retard, liberation.

“Out of sight, out of mind,” the saying goes. And reflecting this idea, Sir Paul McCartney has observed that if slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian. How many times have we all heard, “I don’t want to hear about that!” And, “Don’t show me those pictures, or I won’t be able to enjoy my dinner!” Campaigns like those against battery cages and gestation crates force people to hear the horror stories and look at the faces of suffering, whether they want to or not. They open windows in the solid walls of slaughterhouses and confinement sheds. They show the public the truth about these death camps, and even though these campaigns may not lead directly to a vegan world, they are slowly but surely changing the way the public thinks about animals and their suffering. And this sea change in public attitude is an important entryway to a vegan society. "

Bottom line: Foer's book and groups working on advocating against factory farms reaffirm time and time again that animals are individuals whose well being is something that is important.  Every time someone acknowledges the suffering of another, even if they are not yet veg, they remind themselves that animals DO exist in their moral sphere.

Like one persistant poster has mentioned multiple times, Foer and his group acknowledge 99% of animals raised for food come from factory farms.  A reasonable person, when confronted with such unspeakable suffering, is faced with a choice.  Either they ignore it, accept it and stop eating animals, or do their best to go get meat from one of Foer's farms that he supports.  If they choose EITHER of the last two, suffering will still be reduced, and suffering matters.

Personally, I am not concerned with being able to boast out my chest at how pure and ideal my argument is (well that's not true, lol.  Maybe it's true about the " pure " part, but I definitely think my argument is the most logical).  I am concerned with approaches that make sense and reduce the suffering of animals now and in the future, and like Norm Phelps said, to get people to look at animals as " sentient, sensitive beings whose well-being is a matter of serious moral concern "

To read the full article article, visit:  http://www.veganoutreach.org/articles/normphelps.htmlBrian GrupeNorthern California Outreach Coordinator

Vegan OutreachPlease visit: www.adoptacollege.org> valleyveg

> victor Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:01:28 -0800> [valleyveg] Jonathan Safran Foer and Eating Animals>

> Thank you, Mary, for sharing that interview with Jonathan Safran Foer, > author of " Eating Animals. " Since this book has been making the rounds > lately, I started digging a little deeper and thought I'd share what I

> found. From all I have read and seen, Foer does a great job of > articulating the problems of industrial animal agriculture and offering > an alternative for people. For example, this is from an article in the

> New York Times Magazine, adapted from the book:> > " According to an analysis of U.S.D.A. data by the advocacy group Farm > Forward, factory farms now produce more than 99 percent of the animals

> eaten in this country. And despite labels that suggest otherwise, > genuine alternatives — which do exist, and make many of the ethical > questions about meat moot — are very difficult for even an educated

> eater to find. " http://bit.ly/3ckduW> > It's clear from the excerpt that Foer thinks there is an ethical way to > breed, raise, and kill non-human animals for human use. This is not

> surprising, as he is helping to make those genuine alternatives to > factory farmed dairy, eggs, and meat available. The humane and > sustainable animal agriculture advocacy group Farm Forward, of which

> Foer is a board member, writes:> > " [Foer's book] articulates so much of Farm Forward’s own philosophy. For > example, Foer singles out Frank Reese as the most important farmer in > America. We’ve felt that way for years. Reese has the ability to

> recreate a more humane and sustainable poultry industry, which is why > supporting Reese’s work is taking more of Farm Forward’s attention than > any other project. " http://bit.ly/IUAQu

> > On a recent appearance on Ellen Degeneres's TV show, Foer offered this > advice to the audience: > > " Get informed. ... Go to a site like FarmForward.com, which has plenty > of information, and it's not just vegetarian information. If you're > somebody who says, 'you know, I have to eat turkey, this is important to

> me,' they tell you places to buy it, where the animals are raised > outdoors, aren't fed medicine, the kinds of farms where if you were to > visit them, you would say this is something I'm proud of, my values are

> reflected in the way these animals are raised. " > > Again, Farm Forward exists expressedly to advocate for humanely

> breeding, raising, and killing non-human animals for human use. This is > very much in line with the anti-factory farming position advocated by > Foer (who is only the latest in a string of authors doing the same).

> Unfortunately, it is obviously not compatible with the vegan ideal of > non-exploitation.> > If you're interested in reading more on how the sustainable, humane > animal agriculture Foer promotes relates to vegetarianism, please check

> out my earlier writing on the topic:> http://loveallbeings.org/blog/sustainable-animal-agriculture-and-ethical-vegetarianism/

> > Victor > > -- > The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/> Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/

> > > > ---> >