Guest guest Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Ida at The Vegan Ideal has a new post up that is particularly pertinent given the discussion that has been happening here on this list about PETA's fat shaming billboard. " Usually, no matter how oppressive PETA's campaigns get, nearly everyone I talk to who still supports PETA will at some point always recites a version of the phrase: " But PETA does some good. " This is the " get out of jail free " card most commonly used by PETA supporters to dismiss harsh criticism and seek concurrence and unanimity. But the reality is there is no amount of ostensible " good " that can justify perpetuating oppression. Being an ally depends on intervening in situation where oppression and exploitation is perpetuated. Withholding criticism in these situations only allows oppression to continue. " ( http://veganideal.org/content/soft-headed-and-hard-hearted ) The fat shaming billboard is mean and nasty.* While I understand that this is acceptable to PETA** and society as a whole, I don't think that means we as a community need to support unkind actions or those who unapologetically, deliberately and repeatedly hurt others.*** This hurts real people, a number of whom have shared with this list the pain they feel from fat shaming campaigns. Are we really so invested in being nasty towards people? I think we can treat people with basic decency and respect AND promote veganism. Victor * I think it is revealing that none of the various defenses of PETA address this core issue. ** " Ms. Newkirk said that shaming fat women would be a good thing because it would wake them up to vegetarianism and veganism. " http://whatswrittenonmybody.blogspot.com/2009/08/standing-up-to-fat-phobia-peta-\ style_22.html *** http://vegansagainstpeta.blogspot.com/2009/03/now-what.html -- The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/ Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Dear Friends, I had had another thought about the PETA billboard but decided to let it go, so as not to perpetuate things. But now I have changed my mind, so here goes: Has anyone else noticed the speciesism of this whole thing? A number of people have complained about likening a human to a whale, but when Victor just said that it was mean and nasty to do so, it sort of came together for me. This whole thing is about how awful it is for a human to be compared to a non-human. now of course thats common; it is said about the worst criminals " what an animal " or " no better than an animal " , etc. Whales are wonderful! There are worse things to be compared to! Yes, I know. because women want to be seen as thin, this hurts their feelings. Given that it is not in obese people's interest to remain obese, and given that this billboard (which they did take down immediately) got animal rights issues into people's minds, I personally think it was worth hurting some obese women's feelings to get so much press coverage for farmed animals. Life on a factory farm versus hurt feelings because Peta compared fat people to whales. Stephanie -- " Our task must be to widen our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. " Albert Einstein " The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated. " Mahatma Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Wow, I've been refraining from speaking up for a while now because I knew I wouldn't be able to articulate my ideas nearly as eloquently as Victor has. First, I second everything Victor just said. Secondly, and Stefanie, I truly mean no offense here-- I find it incredibly sad that people think that hurting the hearts of one species is acceptable when trying to help another species. In my opinion, oppression is never acceptable for any means whatsoever. While I agree that PETA's over-the-top campaigns garner much needed attention for the movement, it saddens me that activists would settle for working within the dominant framework of a patriarchal society instead of breaking the mold and creating revolutionary approaches to looking at the topic of non-human animal oppression. I keep thinking of womanist Audrey Lorde's fabulous quote: you cannot dismantle the master's house using the master's tools.At the end of the day, when we, as a society and individuals, allow PETA (or Carl's Jr. or Budweiser or any other organization) to intentionally marginalize women in the selling of their message, it further perpetuates the exact problem each of us on this listserve is trying to solve: the oppression of living creatures-- be they human, male, female, black, brown or otherwise. That's my word. Thanks for reading.On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:07 PM, S Falcone <bekindbecause wrote: Dear Friends, I had had another thought about the PETA billboard but decided to let it go, so as not to perpetuate things. But now I have changed my mind, so here goes: Has anyone else noticed the speciesism of this whole thing? A number of people have complained about likening a human to a whale, but when Victor just said that it was mean and nasty to do so, it sort of came together for me. This whole thing is about how awful it is for a human to be compared to a non-human. now of course thats common; it is said about the worst criminals " what an animal " or " no better than an animal " , etc. Whales are wonderful! There are worse things to be compared to! Yes, I know. because women want to be seen as thin, this hurts their feelings. Given that it is not in obese people's interest to remain obese, and given that this billboard (which they did take down immediately) got animal rights issues into people's minds, I personally think it was worth hurting some obese women's feelings to get so much press coverage for farmed animals. Life on a factory farm versus hurt feelings because Peta compared fat people to whales. Stephanie -- " Our task must be to widen our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. " Albert Einstein " The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated. " Mahatma Gandhi -- M. Mello " I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. " -- Thomas Jefferson 1802 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Dear , No offense taken. I never thought of this topic in the way that you frame it. Thank you for your post as it was quite educational. I still think that PETA is a wonderful organization, doing whatever they think will most alleviate the suffering of non-humans. You have given me a lot to think about though. Best regards, Stephanie On 8/28/09, M. Mello <mmello wrote: Wow, I've been refraining from speaking up for a while now because I knew I wouldn't be able to articulate my ideas nearly as eloquently as Victor has. First, I second everything Victor just said. Secondly, and Stefanie, I truly mean no offense here-- I find it incredibly sad that people think that hurting the hearts of one species is acceptable when trying to help another species. In my opinion, oppression is never acceptable for any means whatsoever. While I agree that PETA's over-the-top campaigns garner much needed attention for the movement, it saddens me that activists would settle for working within the dominant framework of a patriarchal society instead of breaking the mold and creating revolutionary approaches to looking at the topic of non-human animal oppression. I keep thinking of womanist Audrey Lorde's fabulous quote: you cannot dismantle the master's house using the master's tools.At the end of the day, when we, as a society and individuals, allow PETA (or Carl's Jr. or Budweiser or any other organization) to intentionally marginalize women in the selling of their message, it further perpetuates the exact problem each of us on this listserve is trying to solve: the oppression of living creatures-- be they human, male, female, black, brown or otherwise. That's my word. Thanks for reading. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:07 PM, S Falcone <bekindbecause wrote: Dear Friends, I had had another thought about the PETA billboard but decided to let it go, so as not to perpetuate things. But now I have changed my mind, so here goes: Has anyone else noticed the speciesism of this whole thing? A number of people have complained about likening a human to a whale, but when Victor just said that it was mean and nasty to do so, it sort of came together for me. This whole thing is about how awful it is for a human to be compared to a non-human. now of course thats common; it is said about the worst criminals " what an animal " or " no better than an animal " , etc. Whales are wonderful! There are worse things to be compared to! Yes, I know. because women want to be seen as thin, this hurts their feelings. Given that it is not in obese people's interest to remain obese, and given that this billboard (which they did take down immediately) got animal rights issues into people's minds, I personally think it was worth hurting some obese women's feelings to get so much press coverage for farmed animals. Life on a factory farm versus hurt feelings because Peta compared fat people to whales. Stephanie -- " Our task must be to widen our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. " Albert Einstein " The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated. " Mahatma Gandhi -- M. Mello " I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. " -- Thomas Jefferson 1802-- " Our task must be to widen our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. " Albert Einstein " The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated. " Mahatma Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 since we're talking about PETA. PETA is definately not perfect. However, there's bad things written about PETA, someone forwarded me the links below. I know some might be correct but some are wrong. Can everyone email me privately links to straighten things out. Some of the links are 3 years old. ( I can not take your long essays since I have to forward the info to others. Unless you save your comments on a web link.) I'll promise to gather the links together and post it to the BAVEG list in 7 days ==== http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21 http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/282260/peta_when_animal_rights_becomes_\ terrorism.html?cat=9 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_13_18/ai_84804849/ http://studentsforanimalrights.blogspot.com/2009/03/ingrid-newkirk-on-peta-and-e\ uthanasia.html Please note the comments from other animal rights advocates. http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm Rent the DVD set of Penn & Teller - Bullsh*t! The Complete Second Season (2003) Watch the episode on PETA- exposing the animal rights organization that would rather have people die than animals; who support arson to free animals; who euthanize 2/3 of the animals they save; who object to medical research and drugs derived from animals except for their high executives. == posted winnie , Victor Tsou <victor wrote: > > Ida at The Vegan Ideal has a new post up that is particularly pertinent > -- > The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal.org/ > Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I think that we know what we need to do to end suffering for people and other anmials. Corporate lobbies set up websites with misinformation to protect their own intersts and profits in the name of "Consumer Rights." Claire sunny_outdoors <sunny_outdoors Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:04:54 PM Re: In defense of PETA since we're talking about PETA.PETA is definately not perfect.However, there's bad things written about PETA, someone forwarded me the links below.I know some might be correct but some are wrong. Can everyone email me privately links to straighten things out. Some of the links are 3 years old. ( I can not take your long essays since I have to forward the info to others. Unless you save your comments on a web link.)I'll promise to gather the links together and post it to the BAVEG list in 7 days====http://www.activist cash.com/ organization_ overview. cfm/oid/21http://www.associat edcontent. com/article/ 282260/peta_ when_animal_ rights_becomes_ terrorism. html?cat= 9http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_13_18/ai_84804849/http://studentsfora nimalrights. blogspot. com/2009/ 03/ingrid- newkirk-on- peta-and- euthanasia. html Please note the comments from other animal rights advocates.http://www.nokillno w.com/PETAIngrid NewkirkResign. htmRent the DVD set of Penn & Teller - Bullsh*t! The Complete Second Season (2003)Watch the episode on PETA- exposing the animal rights organization that would rather have people die than animals; who support arson to free animals; who euthanize 2/3 of the animals they save; who object to medical research and drugs derived from animals except for their high executives. ==posted winnie@ .com, Victor Tsou <victor wrote:>> Ida at The Vegan Ideal has a new post up that is particularly pertinent > -- > The Vegan Ideal: http://veganideal. org/> Veganism as Anti-Oppression: http://loveallbeings.org/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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