B12 & raw food

August 27, 2007

Oh Excellent Post Elchanan!!

You are right on about the malabsorption being the issue - that is what it is with me and I neglected to add that in my comment. I am still healling from that issue. I have been a rawfooder for 6 years and my B-12 is better than it was before I went raw. I am looking forward to the time (maybe if I get my courage up to do a monitored month water fast) where I will be completely healed of digestive issues.

On a side note, I am more than half way done a 2 week juice fast and I must say I feel absolutely FANTASTIC. I even went jogging for 2 miles this morning. I had cut back on my usual 3 times a week run the first week but I felt so full of energy today I wanted to do it.

Nancy

www.healthylivingstrategies.net

On Behalf Of ElchananMonday, August 27, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Creating a healthful diet vs. eating for specific nutrients; B12 (WAS: Soy milk cooked)

Hi Scott,

First, I wish to encourage you toward an entirely different way of thinking. Scientists have discovered, so far, tens of thousands of prospective nutrients and hundreds of thousands of proteins. Who knows what remains undiscovered. Furthermore, the capacity of conscious human thought, and of our mathematical modeling techniques and the like, is such that we cannot really comprehend the interactive or concurrent effects of eating all these nutrients together in various proportions, in a wet/watery medium, and in the presence of various forms of digestible and indigestible fiber.

Therefore, approaching the topic, "what shall we eat?", from the perspective of individual nutrients is a largely self-defeating undertaking. I say this, because whenever we focus our attention on one or a handful of nutrients, we concurrently focus our attention away from tens of thousands. With a few very rare exceptions, we serve ourselves far better by choosing a healthful approach to eating than by focusing on any specific foods or nutrients.

Now let's apply this to the question of B12. Studies have shown that the real problem with B12 is malabsorption. In other words, the problem is not a deficiency of B12 intake, but rather one of absorption. This is why supplementation fails in so many people (as do most attempts at supplementation). But any lack of B12 is merely an EFFECT of malabsorption, it does not CAUSE the malabsorption. So let's focus on what does.

Much has been written, in the archive, on what constitutes a healthful diet for humans. Basically, we are designed to consume foods that our bodies digest with ease. In other words, maximum nutrition for minimum effort and resources expended in digestion, assimilation, and elimination. The foods that move through us most quickly and easily, and that we digest most efficiently and with the least expenditure of energy and other resources, are fruits and green leaves. ALL other potential foods contain core components (not just trace amounts) that slow the digestive process and raise its cost in terms of energy and metabolic resources expended.

That having been said, there is another problem with B12, arising from the dramatically increased use by farmers of killing agents (pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and whatever other -cides)). B12 is bacteria poop ... the poop of a specific bacteria species. When we kill the organism, we kill indiscriminately, and that includes the B12-producing bacteria. However, assuming that we eat a healthful diet AND get plenty of sunshine, fresh air, activity, and rest, then if we consume organically grown (or better) foods, and if we minimize the degree to which we wash our foods, then we are generally, okay.

There are a few cases in which people reach the point where they do require short-tem B12 supplementation. But these cases are quite uncommon, and virtually unheard of among long-term RF vegans. Does anyone here personally know of someone who has been a RF vegan for at least a few years and who reports any sort of B12 problem?

Make sense?

Best,

Elchanan

On Behalf Of ScottSunday, August 26, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Soy milk cooked

So if everything is cooked, how can I ensure I am getting the proper vitamins, such as, B12; without eating cooked food, or taking man made suppliments? Is rice milk, or almond milk cooked, or pasteurized? This diet is proving how difficult it really is to get healthy raw food.There is a guy on the web, Storm, he claims to have been eating raw for over 30 years. Where is he getting his B12, and other stuff that isn't in nuts, seeds, veggies, or fruits?--ScottDon't under estimate the wisdom of nature.If man made it, don't eat it.Raw Vegan--- Elchanan (AT) PathOfHealth (DOT) org wrote:"Elchanan" <Elchanan (AT) PathOfHealth (DOT) org> Soy milk cookedSun, 26 Aug 2007 08:59:46 -0700

Hi Scott,

I have not researched this thoroughly, so please receive my response with that in mind. I have the impression that all unsprouted soy products are, in fact, cooked.

Soy has become a darling of the food industry because it's protein more closely resembles animal protein, in certain respects, than does the protein of any of the other potential "cash crops". This is not a good thing for humans!

Best,

Elchanan

Learn about the power of raw foods at ---> http://www.rawfoods.com

September 9, 2007

Thank you, Nancy. It's funny, I write so often to so many people, it feels as if I wrote this one in another epoch, though actually it was only about 10 days ago. Sometimes our feelings can be way off base!

That fast, some day, sounds like a wonderful idea. I know you'll make that happen for yourself, when you are ready.

Best,

Elchanan

On Behalf Of pnparletteSent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:25 PM Subject: B12 & raw food

Oh Excellent Post Elchanan!!

You are right on about the malabsorption being the issue - that is what it is with me and I neglected to add that in my comment. I am still healling from that issue. I have been a rawfooder for 6 years and my B-12 is better than it was before I went raw. I am looking forward to the time (maybe if I get my courage up to do a monitored month water fast) where I will be completely healed of digestive issues.

On a side note, I am more than half way done a 2 week juice fast and I must say I feel absolutely FANTASTIC. I even went jogging for 2 miles this morning. I had cut back on my usual 3 times a week run the first week but I felt so full of energy today I wanted to do it.

Nancy

www.healthylivingstrategies.net

On Behalf Of ElchananMonday, August 27, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Creating a healthful diet vs. eating for specific nutrients; B12 (WAS: Soy milk cooked)

Hi Scott,

First, I wish to encourage you toward an entirely different way of thinking. Scientists have discovered, so far, tens of thousands of prospective nutrients and hundreds of thousands of proteins. Who knows what remains undiscovered. Furthermore, the capacity of conscious human thought, and of our mathematical modeling techniques and the like, is such that we cannot really comprehend the interactive or concurrent effects of eating all these nutrients together in various proportions, in a wet/watery medium, and in the presence of various forms of digestible and indigestible fiber.

Therefore, approaching the topic, "what shall we eat?", from the perspective of individual nutrients is a largely self-defeating undertaking. I say this, because whenever we focus our attention on one or a handful of nutrients, we concurrently focus our attention away from tens of thousands. With a few very rare exceptions, we serve ourselves far better by choosing a healthful approach to eating than by focusing on any specific foods or nutrients.

Now let's apply this to the question of B12. Studies have shown that the real problem with B12 is malabsorption. In other words, the problem is not a deficiency of B12 intake, but rather one of absorption. This is why supplementation fails in so many people (as do most attempts at supplementation). But any lack of B12 is merely an EFFECT of malabsorption, it does not CAUSE the malabsorption. So let's focus on what does.

Much has been written, in the archive, on what constitutes a healthful diet for humans. Basically, we are designed to consume foods that our bodies digest with ease. In other words, maximum nutrition for minimum effort and resources expended in digestion, assimilation, and elimination. The foods that move through us most quickly and easily, and that we digest most efficiently and with the least expenditure of energy and other resources, are fruits and green leaves. ALL other potential foods contain core components (not just trace amounts) that slow the digestive process and raise its cost in terms of energy and metabolic resources expended.

That having been said, there is another problem with B12, arising from the dramatically increased use by farmers of killing agents (pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and whatever other -cides)). B12 is bacteria poop ... the poop of a specific bacteria species. When we kill the organism, we kill indiscriminately, and that includes the B12-producing bacteria. However, assuming that we eat a healthful diet AND get plenty of sunshine, fresh air, activity, and rest, then if we consume organically grown (or better) foods, and if we minimize the degree to which we wash our foods, then we are generally, okay.

There are a few cases in which people reach the point where they do require short-tem B12 supplementation. But these cases are quite uncommon, and virtually unheard of among long-term RF vegans. Does anyone here personally know of someone who has been a RF vegan for at least a few years and who reports any sort of B12 problem?

Make sense?

Best,

Elchanan

On Behalf Of ScottSunday, August 26, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Soy milk cooked

So if everything is cooked, how can I ensure I am getting the proper vitamins, such as, B12; without eating cooked food, or taking man made suppliments? Is rice milk, or almond milk cooked, or pasteurized? This diet is proving how difficult it really is to get healthy raw food.There is a guy on the web, Storm, he claims to have been eating raw for over 30 years. Where is he getting his B12, and other stuff that isn't in nuts, seeds, veggies, or fruits?--ScottDon't under estimate the wisdom of nature.If man made it, don't eat it.Raw Vegan--- Elchanan (AT) PathOfHealth (DOT) org wrote:"Elchanan" <Elchanan (AT) PathOfHealth (DOT) org> Soy milk cookedSun, 26 Aug 2007 08:59:46 -0700

Hi Scott,

I have not researched this thoroughly, so please receive my response with that in mind. I have the impression that all unsprouted soy products are, in fact, cooked.

Soy has become a darling of the food industry because it's protein more closely resembles animal protein, in certain respects, than does the protein of any of the other potential "cash crops". This is not a good thing for humans!

Best,

Elchanan

Learn about the power of raw foods at ---> http://www.rawfoods.com