XPOST [RawSeattle]: RF and the dangers of entering the American medical system (WAS: giving blood)

[Guest guest]

Hi Ramona,

There is a real catch-22 here. On one hand, we would all love to share

generously with others and to help those in need. Of course, this includes

those injured and requiring surgery.

 

BUT ... as we RFs become progressively healthier, our physiology changes

dramatically, over time. One such change is that our white cell activity

diminishes considerably. From a mainstream medical perspective, a " normal "

white cell count is in the range 5000-10,000. But in many RFs, the white

cell count decreases to around 3000 and even a bit below.

 

You see, many of the symptoms of health are also symptoms of incapacity. In

a very healthy person, the low white blood cell count reflects a diminished

need for defensive activity. In contrast, in a very sick person, a

diminished white blood cell count signals systemic loss of vitality ... what

the mainstream calls degenerative " disease " .

 

So here's the rub: If you were to go and give blood, they would type your

blood and screen it for AIDS and other sundry diagnoses. Now the FIRST test

for AIDS is a white blood cell count, and if you were to show up with a low

white blood cell count ... a sign of health in YOU ... you might be flagged

as requiring further AIDS testing; your name might be involuntarily entered

into various databases in which you probably do not wish to have your name

entered.

 

So, although I am a most generous person, I have learned to give to those

who are ready, willing, and able to receive what I have to give now. And in

the medical system, that's a reasonably dangerous proposition.

 

The problem is that you cannot know before the fact what may happen. So from

my perspective, ANY venture into the American medical world is risky, at

best.

 

Sorry, I realize this is probably QUITE different than what you may have

anticipated in response to your inquiry.

 

Best,

Elchanan

 

RawSeattle [RawSeattle ] On

Behalf Of sturtevants

Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:30 AM

RawSeattle

Re: [RawSeattle] Re: giving blood

 

I used to give blood occasionally before I became RAW.

However, once I changed my lifestyle, I lost so much weight, that I did not

weigh enough to give blood any longer.

 

For the last several months I have been slowly gaining weight.

Note: I have not changed my habits and I choose to fast two days a week, and

yet my body is adjusting by gaining weight.

 

I now weigh enough to give blood. I was just wondering if anyone else has

given blood, while raw and what their experiences were.

 

Thank you for your comments

 

Light and Love

 

Ramona

[Guest guest]

Elchanan

 

Thank you for your reply. Victoria Boutenko had warned that a lower white blood

cell count was a possible sign that could occur in our future.

 

I had thought that if that ever occurred for me that I would celebrate the

validation of this chosen life style. I do understand that there is a risk

involved when we venture into tradtional society.

 

I was just hoping to see if anyone had any actual experience with giving blood

after being raw.

 

It is a challenge to live along side others who do not understand our chosen

lifestyle. I have cooked and still cook for my family but I do not eat it.

 

My husband has been on my case to have regular medical tests because some of his

coworkers are having health issues and he is afraid I will develop these

maladies because I chose not to have regular test. I have explained that I am

concerned that the readings could be very different and therefore

misinterpreted. He counters by asking why have there not been any studies on

raw fooders. I answer that is a very good question, but most likely because it

would open up a life style that is healther and cheaper to maintain than the

current status quo.

 

We have to be a part of this society that we live in and not apart from it. It

is only through understanding and tolerance that we will develop community. I

am not sure what I will do yet. I am still thinking about it.

 

Someone always has to be the first to cross a barrier so that others may follow.

I don't know if I am to be the one to cross this particular barrier.

 

Thank You again for your information and thoughts.

 

Light and Love

 

Ramona

 

-------------- Original message --------------

" Elchanan " <Elchanan

Hi Ramona,

There is a real catch-22 here. On one hand, we would all love to share

generously with others and to help those in need. Of course, this includes

those injured and requiring surgery.

 

BUT ... as we RFs become progressively healthier, our physiology changes

dramatically, over time. One such change is that our white cell activity

diminishes considerably. From a mainstream medical perspective, a " normal "

white cell count is in the range 5000-10,000. But in many RFs, the white

cell count decreases to around 3000 and even a bit below.

 

You see, many of the symptoms of health are also symptoms of incapacity. In

a very healthy person, the low white blood cell count reflects a diminished

need for defensive activity. In contrast, in a very sick person, a

diminished white blood cell count signals systemic loss of vitality ... what

the mainstream calls degenerative " disease " .

 

So here's the rub: If you were to go and give blood, they would type your

blood and screen it for AIDS and other sundry diagnoses. Now the FIRST test

for AIDS is a white blood cell count, and if you were to show up with a low

white blood cell count ... a sign of health in YOU ... you might be flagged

as requiring further AIDS testing; your name might be involuntarily entered

into various databases in which you probably do not wish to have your name

entered.

 

So, although I am a most generous person, I have learned to give to those

who are ready, willing, and able to receive what I have to give now. And in

the medical system, that's a reasonably dangerous proposition.

 

The problem is that you cannot know before the fact what may happen. So from

my perspective, ANY venture into the American medical world is risky, at

best.

 

Sorry, I realize this is probably QUITE different than what you may have

anticipated in response to your inquiry.

 

Best,

Elchanan

 

RawSeattle [RawSeattle ] On

Behalf Of sturtevants

Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:30 AM

RawSeattle

Re: [RawSeattle] Re: giving blood

 

I used to give blood occasionally before I became RAW.

However, once I changed my lifestyle, I lost so much weight, that I did not

weigh enough to give blood any longer.

 

For the last several months I have been slowly gaining weight.

Note: I have not changed my habits and I choose to fast two days a week, and

yet my body is adjusting by gaining weight.

 

I now weigh enough to give blood. I was just wondering if anyone else has

given blood, while raw and what their experiences were.

 

Thank you for your comments

 

Light and Love

 

Ramona

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is a great discussion. On the topic of studies of raw fooders, the

primary reason why studies have not been done to any real extent is that

we're a very tiny segment of overall US society (I believe we're less

than 1%), and do not represent any " glamour " health issues, such as

breast cancer or HIV/AIDS. Studies cost money, and it has to come from

somewhere. The funds that pay for the large studies either come from

government or industry. Dr. Michael Klaper has conducted a rather large

study of vegans, including raw, but it was self-funded, meaning that

each participant had to pay for his/her own medical testing, which

amounted to several hundred dollars per person. This limits the

population studied to those who can afford that testing. I don't think

we're going to see any walkathons or huge awareness campaigns for raw

food any time soon, although it would be nice and is an idea to

explore. The only " industries " that benefit from our practice are the

small local cottage companies (such as Smart Monkey and Livin' Spoonful)

and the local farmers markets, none of which are going to have the " deep

pockets " that one needs to fund such research. Even the makers of

Vita-Mixes and Excaliber dehydrators and juicers don't make that much

money from us, because these things hold up like " forever " and don't

need to be replaced under normal use.

 

The assessment is also correct that we represent a lifestyle that is

healthier and cheaper to maintain that the current status quo. The

medical establishment makes their money from having us have tests and

then prescribing medication or procedures based on those tests. Those

of us who have been practicing raw food for several years (I'll be at 6

years next spring!) thumb our noses at these tests. I refused my last

MD's demands to have a colonoscopy done. (He described the procedure.

I'd have to miss a day of work, my husband would have to take time from

work to take me in and pick me up again, the test costs over $1k, and

insurance might or might not pay for it. Further research showed that

the less expensive colonoscopy doesn't even really show much, that you

have to get an even more expensive one for a better look. It definitely

sounded like an overall unpleasant experience.) " Why? " I asked him.

" Because you're almost 50. " " Give me another reason, " I asked him

again. " Because I had one done. " (My thoughts: OK, Doc, so if you

jump off a bridge, you'd expect me to jump off a bridge as well?) I had

no symptoms, no family history, and, at the time, was cooked food vegan,

I became raw the following year. I told him that when I turned 50, I'd

" think about it " . As my 50th birthday approached, when I had become

raw, I told myself, ok, time to look for another doctor, preferably a

naturopath. I figure that, with my lifestyle, I earn a " pass " on that

one!

 

I truly believe that studies are needed to assess: normal growth curves

for children who are raised raw vegan, normal blood values of different

health status markers of raw vegans, and longitudinal studies of the

health status (including illnesses) of raw vegans. Until that is done,

people will continue to believe that our lifestyle is of questionable

health benefit, and will continue to regard raw food as just another fad

diet.

 

Blessings -

 

Sue

 

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