RE: RE: Was Do vivisectors deserve all they get? Discuss. Is now Criticism

[Guest guest]

Ah, but there's criticism and then again there's criticism. Compare the

mother's despairing cry of " you never clean your room " which we know means

she'll still love us, with the cruel teacher saying " you're stupid and

you'll never amount to anything " . I prefer to debate opinions rather than

criticise people and their actions. (Well actually I like a good bitch as

much as anyone, but there are just so many people out there who deserve it

more than AR folk!).

Anyway, I don't yet know you well enough to criticise you :-)

I know what you mean about constant self-examination...... one of the banes

of my life, though strangely not in relation to AR. This must be because I

see very few greys in the area of how we treat animals, only very blacks and

purest whites. So I have my opinions on this subject and I know they're

right! In all other areas of my life I am a jelly.

 

Fraggle - what kind of name is that? (How am I doing on the criticism so

far? :-) :-) :-)

 

Cathy

> ----------

> EBbrewpunx[sMTP:EBbrewpunx]

> Reply

> 31 July 2001 15:22

>

> RE: RE: Do vivisectors deserve all they get?

> Discuss.

>

> just one quick tiny itsy bitsy comment...as fer angie saying , " don't

> criticize our own " ...please....criticize me!!! critique me...question

> me!!!!

> i am not infalliable...i have opinions just like anyone else, and bacchus

> knows, i question them and my values, thoughts, actions, every bleedin

> minute!!!!

> it's good to question!!!

>

> just don't be tooo harsh...i bruise easily, and i cry like a 2 yr old

> teehee

> know wot ya kids mean tho

>

> cheers

> fraggle

>

>

> " Cathy Jupp (BR) " <cjbr wrote:

>

> >> Angie Wright[sMTP:angiewright]

> >> I think we shouldn't criticise our own ', and we should all do what we

> >> can

> >> I think we should attack on all fronts

> >>

> >> As to the comment " we are no better than those we are attacking " I

> don't

> >> care if people think I am no better---This is not a popularity contest

> >> !!!

> >> whatever it takes to close HLS is OK by me

> >>

> >>

> >Hi all - very brief introduction because from what I've seen of this list

> so

> >far, most of you already know me. Cathy, 44, vegan 2 years, haven't

> eaten

> >meat for 18/19 years, mostly harmless.

> >

> >Now, about what Angie said - YES! I reproduce below (because I'm too

> lazy

> >to say it all again) what I sent to the PlanetVegan list when someone

> >declared that they were leaving the AR movement becuase of how NASTY we

> are

> >to other people and how that HAS to be wrong. Speciesist say I. Frankly

> if

> >the animal abusers were only doing to animals what we are doing to them,

> I

> >would have no problem with complaining through the proper channels and

> >hoping that eventually someone might listen. But all the time we're

> >pussyfooting animals are dying horrible, terrifying, agonising deaths.

> And

> >we worry about someone's personal privacy? Priorities askew or what!

> >

> >Having said all that, obviously the movement as a whole is well divided

> over

> >this, most of the dissent I have heard comes from across the Atlantic.

> In

> >fact one person has left PlanetVegan after reading my email, " taking my

> >morals with me " , which I regard as frankly ridiculous. Thus far no-one

> else

> >on there has commented. Anyway, here's what I said (if anyone wants to

> know

> >what the dissenter said back, shout and I'll post it here in the

> interests

> >of balance):

> >

> >I'm sorry that someone who cares about animals feels it necessary to

> remove

> >themselves from the AR movement, but respect your decision. We all draw

> the

> >lines at the point where we start to feel uncomfortable. However. To

> >protest loudly but without violence at someone's house is indeed

> >harrassment. But where that person makes a living from the suffering of

> >animals, I fail to see how that harrassment is unjustified. If I were to

> >visit an HLS worker's house, open his door, take his baby away from his

> >wife, ignoring her screams of distress and the baby's screams of fear,

> push

> >a pipe down the baby's throat, pour toxic substances down that pipe, take

> >notes over a couple of days of the baby's symptoms and signs of

> suffering,

> >then kill the baby (or maybe *nearly* kill it, so that it wakes up on the

> >autopsy table as it is being slit from throat to groin), remove and

> examine

> >its internal organs - all this for a healthy paypacket, well, my friend,

> you

> >would have cause to criticise me. For that is what these pepole do, and

> >until the day that EXACTLY what they do to others is done back to them,

> as

> >far as I am concerned they have no reason to complain.

> >How can anyone who cares defend an animal abuser's right to a peaceful

> home

> >life, knowing what they do? People have been campaigning and petitioning

> >against vivisection for a hundred years without noticeable success -

> until

> >the fight became personal. I guess what I want to say boils down to

> this:

> >nothing that any AR person has ever done to an animal abuser even comes

> >close to what that animal abuser does EVERY DAY at work. What is more

> >important - thousand's of animals' suffering, or a few people having

> their

> >houses shouted at?

> >

> >

> >Cheers!

> >Cathy

> >

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

> >