Guest guest Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I live in a school district where the pay is good so many come here to work. And there are men waiters here, too. I am just saying, when a restaurant owner wants a cute waittress to make the clientele happy...he isn't going to hire a man! And so men miss out on those jobs. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 25 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 21:03:36 -0700 "Lynda" <lurineRe: Re:OT equality of women/more thoughtsWhere in the world do you live? Men are waiters? Hells bells, there are tons of men making tons of money working as waiters.Males not being school teachers? Rot, someone was whining and that's where he placed the blame. I've worked at many a school and done grant planning for plenty more. 37% of teachers are male. Men CHOOSE not to teach because of the pay. They can make more working construction, or getting into the corporate world. It takes less time academically and most men don't see teaching as providing enough money to raise a family. And those are the reasons men gave when surveyed by the NEA.Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Monday, August 08, 2005 6:13 PM Re:OT equality of women/more thoughts One thing to think about here is that women may not feel as free to do certain jobs, but neither are men! I remember one architect I spoke to. He said he one time worked in elementary school...and was shunned often because it is very female and cliquish. Unless you were a feminine man, you were NOT let in the group at all. Can you imagine big construction guys wanting to be kindergarten teachers? That wouldn't be easy, either. Or what about nannies? Hairstylists (if you aren't gay)? And certainly, no matter how cute men may make themselves, they will no way get a lot of the food service jobs (waitressing) and sometimes great money because they aren't female. Yes, many cocktail waittressed and food servers make great money. And, of course, no woman I know of want to pass the "dirt floor" and dig ditches...that is man's work. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 5:54:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Jonnie Hellens 8/8/2005 5:15:50 PM Re: Re: OT equality of women I have to disagree. I used to think I could do anything a man could do. I have since found out that isn't so. Not because I don't want to do it, not because I can't do it, but because many people aren't comfortable with it. I once told my ex-husband (who wasn't my ex at the time) that I was interested in going out for a position at his construction company. He told me that I wouldn't be allowed to work the job. If for some strange reason I actually got the job, the men would make sure it was so difficult that I would leave and they would do whatever necessary to make that happen. Now-a-day, even tho I own my own business, there's no end of people who come in wanting to talk to the boss. When I explain that I am she, they say "no, the guy." When my hubby lost his job last year, it was assumed right away that he was now the boss, I guess just because he has the right genitalia to run a business and I don't? It doesn't stop there, if my house is a mess, does anyone blame the man? No, it's the women's fault that it's not cleaned up. I guess I've had some influence on my son tho. My mother-in-law told my son to marry some nice Finnish girl who would wait on him hand and foot (I wish I knew that before I married him!) and now she's trying to brainwash my son about the same thing. He told her "Why would I want that?" She explained he would just have to lie back and she'ld take care of everything, he could just enjoy life. He told her that wasn't very fair to the woman and also, what kind of team would they be if he just sat around and let her do everything as well as work. He was pretty bent out of shape about it. There is hope.... Jonnie lv2breathe wrote: Lynda I remember that whole brou haha with the Harvard pres and I don't think that is what he was saying at all. He was not saying that women could not cut it in male dominated studies...he just said that women, in general, are not attracted to such fields as men are. And that's the truth! If women wanted to do it, they surely could...he was speaking about the obvious differences in interests in men and women. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 11:16:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 16 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:50:42 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine Re: Re: OT equality of women I think it is great that you *feel* equal, however, in the workplace and government you are not equal. Pay is unequal. You WILL be discriminated against by most companies. If there are two equal applications OR even close to equal with you the female having a very slight edge, you, the female, will not in most cases get the job. After all, you still have better things to do like staying home and taking care of the spouse and children. Wages for women are 68 cents for every dollar a white male makes. 58 cents if you are First Nations. There are over 7,000 elective offices in the U.S. (state level and Congress). Of those, 1355 are held by white women, 215 by African-American women, 58 by Hispanic women and 23 by Asian American women. NONE are held by First Nations women! (From the Status on Women in America report) Why even the prez at Harvard says women just can't cut it and that's why they don't succeed. Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:48 PM Re: OT equality of women Peter and Lynda I was just curious...both you feel women are not equal, I am assuming, in the US and/or UK. As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go as high as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in the world this is something I have never worried about...as the sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I am wondering why you say this. What is unequal??? Kristina In a message dated 8/7/05 5:28:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Do women not have the vote in the US, then? They do in every other Western country. I agree about equality, and there is still a strong movement actively campaigning to change that - but that seems irrelevant to the fact that women have the vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Kristina From what you have said below it looks as though you presume all restaurant owners to be men - you have said 'he'. If you now argue that half restaurant owners are men and half are women, then surely the women restaurant owners would hire cute chaps as waiters - and then it would be equal, surely Jo And there are men waiters here, too. I am just saying, when a restaurant owner wants a cute waittress to make the clientele happy...he isn't going to hire a man! And so men miss out on those jobs. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 25 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 21:03:36 -0700 "Lynda" <lurineRe: Re:OT equality of women/more thoughtsWhere in the world do you live? Men are waiters? Hells bells, there are tons of men making tons of money working as waiters.Males not being school teachers? Rot, someone was whining and that's where he placed the blame. I've worked at many a school and done grant planning for plenty more. 37% of teachers are male. Men CHOOSE not to teach because of the pay. They can make more working construction, or getting into the corporate world. It takes less time academically and most men don't see teaching as providing enough money to raise a family. And those are the reasons men gave when surveyed by the NEA.Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Monday, August 08, 2005 6:13 PM Re:OT equality of women/more thoughts One thing to think about here is that women may not feel as free to do certain jobs, but neither are men! I remember one architect I spoke to. He said he one time worked in elementary school...and was shunned often because it is very female and cliquish. Unless you were a feminine man, you were NOT let in the group at all. Can you imagine big construction guys wanting to be kindergarten teachers? That wouldn't be easy, either. Or what about nannies? Hairstylists (if you aren't gay)? And certainly, no matter how cute men may make themselves, they will no way get a lot of the food service jobs (waitressing) and sometimes great money because they aren't female. Yes, many cocktail waittressed and food servers make great money. And, of course, no woman I know of want to pass the "dirt floor" and dig ditches...that is man's work. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 5:54:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Jonnie Hellens 8/8/2005 5:15:50 PM Re: Re: OT equality of women I have to disagree. I used to think I could do anything a man could do. I have since found out that isn't so. Not because I don't want to do it, not because I can't do it, but because many people aren't comfortable with it. I once told my ex-husband (who wasn't my ex at the time) that I was interested in going out for a position at his construction company. He told me that I wouldn't be allowed to work the job. If for some strange reason I actually got the job, the men would make sure it was so difficult that I would leave and they would do whatever necessary to make that happen. Now-a-day, even tho I own my own business, there's no end of people who come in wanting to talk to the boss. When I explain that I am she, they say "no, the guy." When my hubby lost his job last year, it was assumed right away that he was now the boss, I guess just because he has the right genitalia to run a business and I don't? It doesn't stop there, if my house is a mess, does anyone blame the man? No, it's the women's fault that it's not cleaned up. I guess I've had some influence on my son tho. My mother-in-law told my son to marry some nice Finnish girl who would wait on him hand and foot (I wish I knew that before I married him!) and now she's trying to brainwash my son about the same thing. He told her "Why would I want that?" She explained he would just have to lie back and she'ld take care of everything, he could just enjoy life. He told her that wasn't very fair to the woman and also, what kind of team would they be if he just sat around and let her do everything as well as work. He was pretty bent out of shape about it. There is hope.... Jonnie lv2breathe wrote: Lynda I remember that whole brou haha with the Harvard pres and I don't think that is what he was saying at all. He was not saying that women could not cut it in male dominated studies...he just said that women, in general, are not attracted to such fields as men are. And that's the truth! If women wanted to do it, they surely could...he was speaking about the obvious differences in interests in men and women. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 11:16:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 16 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:50:42 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine Re: Re: OT equality of women I think it is great that you *feel* equal, however, in the workplace and government you are not equal. Pay is unequal. You WILL be discriminated against by most companies. If there are two equal applications OR even close to equal with you the female having a very slight edge, you, the female, will not in most cases get the job. After all, you still have better things to do like staying home and taking care of the spouse and children. Wages for women are 68 cents for every dollar a white male makes. 58 cents if you are First Nations. There are over 7,000 elective offices in the U.S. (state level and Congress). Of those, 1355 are held by white women, 215 by African-American women, 58 by Hispanic women and 23 by Asian American women. NONE are held by First Nations women! (From the Status on Women in America report) Why even the prez at Harvard says women just can't cut it and that's why they don't succeed. Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:48 PM Re: OT equality of women Peter and Lynda I was just curious...both you feel women are not equal, I am assuming, in the US and/or UK. As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go as high as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in the world this is something I have never worried about...as the sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I am wondering why you say this. What is unequal??? Kristina In a message dated 8/7/05 5:28:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Do women not have the vote in the US, then? They do in every other Western country. I agree about equality, and there is still a strong movement actively campaigning to change that - but that seems irrelevant to the fact that women have the vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 My eleven year old son and I were out on the golf course recently when the beverage cart came by. After she left, my son asked why she was acting that way. I asked him why he thought she was and he said "To get more money?" Yup. She was doing the Marilyn Monroe thing and I'm sure it got her a lot more tips. I don't see very many other women out there on the course, so it's unlikely that would change.lv2breathe wrote: I live in a school district where the pay is good so many come here to work. And there are men waiters here, too. I am just saying, when a restaurant owner wants a cute waittress to make the clientele happy...he isn't going to hire a man! And so men miss out on those jobs. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 25 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 21:03:36 -0700 "Lynda" <lurineRe: Re:OT equality of women/more thoughtsWhere in the world do you live? Men are waiters? Hells bells, there are tons of men making tons of money working as waiters.Males not being school teachers? Rot, someone was whining and that's where he placed the blame. I've worked at many a school and done grant planning for plenty more. 37% of teachers are male. Men CHOOSE not to teach because of the pay. They can make more working construction, or getting into the corporate world. It takes less time academically and most men don't see teaching as providing enough money to raise a family. And those are the reasons men gave when surveyed by the NEA.Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Monday, August 08, 2005 6:13 PM Re:OT equality of women/more thoughts One thing to think about here is that women may not feel as free to do certain jobs, but neither are men! I remember one architect I spoke to. He said he one time worked in elementary school...and was shunned often because it is very female and cliquish. Unless you were a feminine man, you were NOT let in the group at all. Can you imagine big construction guys wanting to be kindergarten teachers? That wouldn't be easy, either. Or what about nannies? Hairstylists (if you aren't gay)? And certainly, no matter how cute men may make themselves, they will no way get a lot of the food service jobs (waitressing) and sometimes great money because they aren't female. Yes, many cocktail waittressed and food servers make great money. And, of course, no woman I know of want to pass the "dirt floor" and dig ditches...that is man's work. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 5:54:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Jonnie Hellens 8/8/2005 5:15:50 PM Re: Re: OT equality of women I have to disagree. I used to think I could do anything a man could do. I have since found out that isn't so. Not because I don't want to do it, not because I can't do it, but because many people aren't comfortable with it. I once told my ex-husband (who wasn't my ex at the time) that I was interested in going out for a position at his construction company. He told me that I wouldn't be allowed to work the job. If for some strange reason I actually got the job, the men would make sure it was so difficult that I would leave and they would do whatever necessary to make that happen. Now-a-day, even tho I own my own business, there's no end of people who come in wanting to talk to the boss. When I explain that I am she, they say "no, the guy." When my hubby lost his job last year, it was assumed right away that he was now the boss, I guess just because he has the right genitalia to run a business and I don't? It doesn't stop there, if my house is a mess, does anyone blame the man? No, it's the women's fault that it's not cleaned up. I guess I've had some influence on my son tho. My mother-in-law told my son to marry some nice Finnish girl who would wait on him hand and foot (I wish I knew that before I married him!) and now she's trying to brainwash my son about the same thing. He told her "Why would I want that?" She explained he would just have to lie back and she'ld take care of everything, he could just enjoy life. He told her that wasn't very fair to the woman and also, what kind of team would they be if he just sat around and let her do everything as well as work. He was pretty bent out of shape about it. There is hope.... Jonnie lv2breathe wrote: Lynda I remember that whole brou haha with the Harvard pres and I don't think that is what he was saying at all. He was not saying that women could not cut it in male dominated studies...he just said that women, in general, are not attracted to such fields as men are. And that's the truth! If women wanted to do it, they surely could...he was speaking about the obvious differences in interests in men and women. Kristina In a message dated 8/8/05 11:16:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Message: 16 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:50:42 -0700 "Lynda" <lurine Re: Re: OT equality of women I think it is great that you *feel* equal, however, in the workplace and government you are not equal. Pay is unequal. You WILL be discriminated against by most companies. If there are two equal applications OR even close to equal with you the female having a very slight edge, you, the female, will not in most cases get the job. After all, you still have better things to do like staying home and taking care of the spouse and children. Wages for women are 68 cents for every dollar a white male makes. 58 cents if you are First Nations. There are over 7,000 elective offices in the U.S. (state level and Congress). Of those, 1355 are held by white women, 215 by African-American women, 58 by Hispanic women and 23 by Asian American women. NONE are held by First Nations women! (From the Status on Women in America report) Why even the prez at Harvard says women just can't cut it and that's why they don't succeed. Lynda - lv2breathe Cc: Lv2breathe Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:48 PM Re: OT equality of women Peter and Lynda I was just curious...both you feel women are not equal, I am assuming, in the US and/or UK. As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go as high as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in the world this is something I have never worried about...as the sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I am wondering why you say this. What is unequal??? Kristina In a message dated 8/7/05 5:28:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes: Do women not have the vote in the US, then? They do in every other Western country. I agree about equality, and there is still a strong movement actively campaigning to change that - but that seems irrelevant to the fact that women have the vote! Jonnie Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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