Guest guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 yer missin the point my friend from across the pond historically, humankind has used a wide variety of substances t o*broaden their horizons*, communicate with their gods, the spirit world, wotever.... everything from beer to mushrooms to cactus buttons have been used to bring oneself closer to the *mystical* er wotever i'm not agreeing with it, er disagreeing with it, just stating that is wot people and societies have done for thousands of years wot the drug does isn't wot i'm saying, i'm saying that is wot it has been used for... Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 12:11 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... only if you can't access it normally. Actually I don't agree anyway. I don't think drugs lead you anywhere apart from into your own mind. Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:06 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... i'm sure a lot of things do because humans have always linked the supernatural and the mystic, and *drugs* are the gateway to that world Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 3:05 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... Why does everything have to be connected to drugs? Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:41 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... there is some sort if lnk between the red and white fly agaric mushroom, and santa the only fly in the ointment is that the familiar red and white costume fer santa is a twentieth century creation tho, there is prolly a link somewhere, since reindeer ate the mushrooms, and thye have psyochoactive properties..the reindeer did have to fly somehow.. also, certain russian, lapland, and siberian shamans used the mushrooms, and would dry them over the fireplaces(stockings) etc and so forth as for coke...basically coca cola was the first to really mass market the *modern* image we have of saint nick..so they did popularize his current image peter hurd Jun 18, 2005 7:45 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... I heard that the origins of this strange figure have something to do with the fly agaric mushroom.......you and Frag know everything, fill in the blanks from my ailing memory. The Valley Vegan........metalscarab wrote: hi Mary> I totally forgot that Coco Cola practically invented Santa as we know> him.Actually, this is a complete misnoma... the "santa" we know first appearedin a Danish wood-cut in the early 19th century, and became popularised by"'twas the night before Christmas", which, IIRC is from the 19th century.The confusion around Coca Cola arose because they tried (unsuccessfully)to copyright the image in the 1940s.BBPeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I think that is what people think when they use it, but I don't think that is what happens. I think they are misguided. Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 9:15 PM Re: Re: new heights in drug induced excellence... yer missin the point my friend from across the pond historically, humankind has used a wide variety of substances t o*broaden their horizons*, communicate with their gods, the spirit world, wotever.... everything from beer to mushrooms to cactus buttons have been used to bring oneself closer to the *mystical* er wotever i'm not agreeing with it, er disagreeing with it, just stating that is wot people and societies have done for thousands of years wot the drug does isn't wot i'm saying, i'm saying that is wot it has been used for... Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 12:11 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... only if you can't access it normally. Actually I don't agree anyway. I don't think drugs lead you anywhere apart from into your own mind. Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:06 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... i'm sure a lot of things do because humans have always linked the supernatural and the mystic, and *drugs* are the gateway to that world Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 3:05 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... Why does everything have to be connected to drugs? Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:41 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... there is some sort if lnk between the red and white fly agaric mushroom, and santa the only fly in the ointment is that the familiar red and white costume fer santa is a twentieth century creation tho, there is prolly a link somewhere, since reindeer ate the mushrooms, and thye have psyochoactive properties..the reindeer did have to fly somehow.. also, certain russian, lapland, and siberian shamans used the mushrooms, and would dry them over the fireplaces(stockings) etc and so forth as for coke...basically coca cola was the first to really mass market the *modern* image we have of saint nick..so they did popularize his current image peter hurd Jun 18, 2005 7:45 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... I heard that the origins of this strange figure have something to do with the fly agaric mushroom.......you and Frag know everything, fill in the blanks from my ailing memory. The Valley Vegan........metalscarab wrote: hi Mary> I totally forgot that Coco Cola practically invented Santa as we know> him.Actually, this is a complete misnoma... the "santa" we know first appearedin a Danish wood-cut in the early 19th century, and became popularised by"'twas the night before Christmas", which, IIRC is from the 19th century.The confusion around Coca Cola arose because they tried (unsuccessfully)to copyright the image in the 1940s.BBPeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Hi Jo / Fraggle I always find this discussion of "drugs" and "other realms" to be an interesting one. There seem to be a lot of people who take drugs in order to achieve an altered state, and use the argument that this is what Shaman have been doing for thousands of years, without realising what a vast difference there is between *using* plants to achieve a particular emotional / spiritual point, and *abusing* substances. The traditional Shamanic culture of the Tungusk people (where the word "shaman" comes from) only rarely use drugs to achieve an altered state of consciousness - and those that do are generally considered second-class shaman. Other shamanic cultures do use drugs more frequently, but they are very carefully measured doses taken at very specific times to achieve a specific result - a world away from anything known in the Western drug culture. Personally, I don't see any need for drugs to get into an altered state, it's pretty easy to get there without, and from discussions I've had with people who've used lots of drugs, it seems to me that the experience without drugs is far clearer and more interactive than with them. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh we are comin at this from totally different places and not linkin up here my point is that is why many cultures have used them throughout history...(and fer other reasons as well) if you wanna take some mushroom because you think it helps you touch the hand of god...go fer it... if you wanna hold yer breathe because you believe it helps you attain a higher spiritual level..cool.. if you want to lock yerself in a closet and hang upside down to align yer shakras...more power to ya... its perception i'm not arguing that it works er is right, or is wrong... my point was that ppl do it fer those reasons, and have done it for those reasons for milenium uncounted.. whether it works er not, er is misguided, isn't my point, and truthfully, its splitting theological hairs wotever works fer you personally, i am not a very spiritual person(yet, *ghosts* follow me...go figure)....so, this is all so much ethereal arguments ... if someone thinks they can talk to *beings* by runnin skyclad on a moonless nite on a certain date, hey...who am i to say yea er nay? if boiling down some plant and then ingestin it makes you think that yer mind has opened to the 47th dimension...i have no idea if it happens fer you er not... *shrug* everyone is different, and everyone seeks their own path... er stumbles off the path er just falls asleep whichever *hug* cheers fraggle Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 5:13 PM Re: Re: new heights in drug induced excellence... I think that is what people think when they use it, but I don't think that is what happens. I think they are misguided. Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 9:15 PM Re: Re: new heights in drug induced excellence... yer missin the point my friend from across the pond historically, humankind has used a wide variety of substances t o*broaden their horizons*, communicate with their gods, the spirit world, wotever.... everything from beer to mushrooms to cactus buttons have been used to bring oneself closer to the *mystical* er wotever i'm not agreeing with it, er disagreeing with it, just stating that is wot people and societies have done for thousands of years wot the drug does isn't wot i'm saying, i'm saying that is wot it has been used for... Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 12:11 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... only if you can't access it normally. Actually I don't agree anyway. I don't think drugs lead you anywhere apart from into your own mind. Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:06 PM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... i'm sure a lot of things do because humans have always linked the supernatural and the mystic, and *drugs* are the gateway to that world Jo Cwazy Jun 19, 2005 3:05 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... Why does everything have to be connected to drugs? Jo - fraggle Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:41 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... there is some sort if lnk between the red and white fly agaric mushroom, and santa the only fly in the ointment is that the familiar red and white costume fer santa is a twentieth century creation tho, there is prolly a link somewhere, since reindeer ate the mushrooms, and thye have psyochoactive properties..the reindeer did have to fly somehow.. also, certain russian, lapland, and siberian shamans used the mushrooms, and would dry them over the fireplaces(stockings) etc and so forth as for coke...basically coca cola was the first to really mass market the *modern* image we have of saint nick..so they did popularize his current image peter hurd Jun 18, 2005 7:45 AM Re: Re: new heights in journalistic excellence... I heard that the origins of this strange figure have something to do with the fly agaric mushroom.......you and Frag know everything, fill in the blanks from my ailing memory. The Valley Vegan........metalscarab wrote: hi Mary> I totally forgot that Coco Cola practically invented Santa as we know> him.Actually, this is a complete misnoma... the "santa" we know first appearedin a Danish wood-cut in the early 19th century, and became popularised by"'twas the night before Christmas", which, IIRC is from the 19th century.The confusion around Coca Cola arose because they tried (unsuccessfully)to copyright the image in the 1940s.BBPeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I wish I could explain it that well. The people who use drugs seem to think they have reached into a different realm, but they don't have any conclusion or gained knowledge from it, which surely must be the point of making the journey. Jo - Peter Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:29 PM Re: Re: new heights in drug induced excellence... Hi Jo / Fraggle I always find this discussion of "drugs" and "other realms" to be an interesting one. There seem to be a lot of people who take drugs in order to achieve an altered state, and use the argument that this is what Shaman have been doing for thousands of years, without realising what a vast difference there is between *using* plants to achieve a particular emotional / spiritual point, and *abusing* substances. The traditional Shamanic culture of the Tungusk people (where the word "shaman" comes from) only rarely use drugs to achieve an altered state of consciousness - and those that do are generally considered second-class shaman. Other shamanic cultures do use drugs more frequently, but they are very carefully measured doses taken at very specific times to achieve a specific result - a world away from anything known in the Western drug culture. Personally, I don't see any need for drugs to get into an altered state, it's pretty easy to get there without, and from discussions I've had with people who've used lots of drugs, it seems to me that the experience without drugs is far clearer and more interactive than with them. BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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