sits with a worried frown on face

June 4, 2005

ummmm

in all seriousness and honesty

can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in

the near future....?

with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from

peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant

privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope

i mean..at all???

i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single

economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

*sigh*

Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future,

control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^

June 4, 2005

Cuba will survive

they are the only self sustaining economy on the planet

don't figure does it ..

that is assuming the hurricanes don't blow them in the sea first

ugghhh

Frag I have come to the same conclusion

maybe mother earth is striking back and deciding our fate....

Craig

On Behalf Of fraggleSaturday, June 04, 2005 7:54 AMjdh_666; Homstead_Solarium ; lettuceheads ; TFHB ; Subject: *sits with a worried frown on face*ummmmin all seriousness and honestycan ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hopei mean..at all???i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....*sigh*Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^ To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

Dear fraggle

Know that every small action, matters,

althought it may not seem like it.

where we shop, what we eat, what we drive, everyone of those actions is

a statement, a message that we give out.

I share your sentiments exactly, I feel frustrated, I want to do more,

I want respect for the animals,

Respect and Preservation of mother nature.. It is scary what is

happening to her..

Sometimes, after watching a video depicting animal cruelty, I have

gone to bed with tears in my eyes. I hate that feeling. but being

sensitive can also be a Gift.

I come from a very BACKWARD area of the country, I have very big

frustrations.

I am sourrounded by people, who, are not ignorant. but are proud to be

ignorant. proud to be arrogant. They know they are harming the planet

and they don't care.

Detrimenting themselves and everyone of us.

Know that Veganism, Environmentalism, truly is growing,, not fast

enought but the word is spreading.

In all walks of life, and all social classes, there are a small number

of peoople respect our planet and fellow brothers and sisters, animals.

my friend in Uruguay, emails me often, he says,

Estey Angri, Estay Determin, Estay Vegan.

He hasn't got much money,nor anything else, but he is true blue with

no apologies.

and he's got the spirit of 300 people.

He inspires me, when I'm feeling down.

I send you Hugz.

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

> ummmm

> in all seriousness and honesty

> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY

f*cked in the near future....?

> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away

from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the

rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope

> i mean..at all???

> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of

every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

> *sigh*

>

> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the

future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the

past.^

June 4, 2005

It looks grim and will get worse, that's for sure

But I believe that nothing is set in stone. It will take a long time

and it won't be easy. But it can change and we can change it.

Keep trying. Talk to one person a day, or even a week. Little by

little, step by step.

> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of

every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

I can, you!

We humans tend to do some amazing things, but ya can't give up.

Tis hard, looks bleak, who knows what will happen. And maybe it will

all fall to ruin. Then we pick up and re-start and hope we learned

our lessons.

But until it does, I am going to keep going forward and try my best

to do my part. Tho, even I do fail myself too. I try not to hold

onto that tho.

Nikki - just my two imperfect cents

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

> ummmm

> in all seriousness and honesty

> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and

UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?

> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat

away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to

mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there

any freakin hope

> i mean..at all???

> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of

every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

> *sigh*

>

> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control

the future, control the present; Those who control the present,

control the past.^

June 4, 2005

cuba is an island

hurricanes are one thing....

freakin risin sea levels er another......

i doubt the entire cuban population can flee to the sierra maestro mountains and hide out like fidel in the 1950's Craig Dearth Jun 3, 2005 6:56 PM RE: *sits with a worried frown on face*

Cuba will survive

they are the only self sustaining economy on the planet

don't figure does it ..

that is assuming the hurricanes don't blow them in the sea first

ugghhh

Frag I have come to the same conclusion

maybe mother earth is striking back and deciding our fate....

Craig

On Behalf Of fraggleSaturday, June 04, 2005 7:54 AMjdh_666; Homstead_Solarium ; lettuceheads ; TFHB ; Subject: *sits with a worried frown on face*

ummmmin all seriousness and honestycan ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hopei mean..at all???i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....*sigh*Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^ To send an email to - To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

thanx

but

currently in the mind thought that it all really doesn't matter...

we are beyond the carrying capacity fer this little blue planet

we are about to hit that cute little wall where our energy source we've become addicted to and use for everything goes bye bye er becomes harder to get

might not matter much if yer a kalihari bush person...

sorta gonna be beyond rough fer us in the western world

sorry..not the usual cheery optimistic fraggle

thank you tho fer answering and trying....

really

fraggle Anouk Sickler Jun 3, 2005 9:47 PM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* Dear fraggleKnow that every small action, matters, althought it may not seem like it. where we shop, what we eat, what we drive, everyone of those actions is a statement, a message that we give out. I share your sentiments exactly, I feel frustrated, I want to do more, I want respect for the animals, Respect and Preservation of mother nature.. It is scary what is happening to her..Sometimes, after watching a video depicting animal cruelty, I have gone to bed with tears in my eyes. I hate that feeling. but being sensitive can also be a Gift. I come from a very BACKWARD area of the country, I have very big frustrations. I am sourrounded by people, who, are not ignorant. but are proud to be ignorant. proud to be arrogant. They know they are harming the planet and they don't care. Detrimenting themselves and everyone of us. Know that Veganism, Environmentalism, truly is growing,, not fast enought but the word is spreading. In all walks of life, and all social classes, there are a small number of peoople respect our planet and fellow brothers and sisters, animals.my friend in Uruguay, emails me often, he says, Estey Angri, Estay Determin, Estay Vegan. He hasn't got much money,nor anything else, but he is true blue with no apologies. and he's got the spirit of 300 people. He inspires me, when I'm feeling down. I send you Hugz. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

thanx nikki

sorry..just a tad overwhelmed and utterly defeated feeling... nikki_mackovitch Jun 4, 2005 4:44 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* It looks grim and will get worse, that's for sureBut I believe that nothing is set in stone. It will take a long time and it won't be easy. But it can change and we can change it.Keep trying. Talk to one person a day, or even a week. Little by little, step by step.> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....I can, you! :)We humans tend to do some amazing things, but ya can't give up.Tis hard, looks bleak, who knows what will happen. And maybe it will all fall to ruin. Then we pick up and re-start and hope we learned our lessons.But until it does, I am going to keep going forward and try my best to do my part. Tho, even I do fail myself too. I try not to hold onto that tho.Nikki - just my two imperfect cents , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

Thats not like you Fraggle me boy? maybe drinking too much? you know it is a depressant?

Sorry to rain on your parade,

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

thanx nikki

sorry..just a tad overwhelmed and utterly defeated feeling... nikki_mackovitch Jun 4, 2005 4:44 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* It looks grim and will get worse, that's for sureBut I believe that nothing is set in stone. It will take a long time and it won't be easy. But it can change and we can change it.Keep trying. Talk to one person a day, or even a week. Little by little, step by step.> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....I can, you! :)We humans tend to do some amazing things, but ya can't give up.Tis hard, looks bleak, who knows what will happen. And maybe it will all fall to ruin. Then we pick up and re-start and hope we learned our

lessons.But until it does, I am going to keep going forward and try my best to do my part. Tho, even I do fail myself too. I try not to hold onto that tho.Nikki - just my two imperfect cents , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control

the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

haven't had a drink in...umm...several hours

wot do you mean drinking "too much"?

i recognize those words, but in that context they make no sense...

is it some sort of welsh expression?

peter hurd Jun 4, 2005 7:01 AM Re: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

Thats not like you Fraggle me boy? maybe drinking too much? you know it is a depressant?

Sorry to rain on your parade,

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

thanx nikki

sorry..just a tad overwhelmed and utterly defeated feeling... nikki_mackovitch Jun 4, 2005 4:44 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* It looks grim and will get worse, that's for sureBut I believe that nothing is set in stone. It will take a long time and it won't be easy. But it can change and we can change it.Keep trying. Talk to one person a day, or even a week. Little by little, step by step.> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....I can, you! :)We humans tend to do some amazing things, but ya can't give up.Tis hard, looks bleak, who knows what will happen. And maybe it will all fall to ruin. Then we pick up and re-start and hope we learned our lessons.But until it does, I am going to keep going forward and try my best to do my part. Tho, even I do fail myself too. I try not to hold onto that tho.Nikki - just my two imperfect cents , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

What like the love of a good sheep?

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

haven't had a drink in...umm...several hours

wot do you mean drinking "too much"?

i recognize those words, but in that context they make no sense...

is it some sort of welsh expression?

peter hurd Jun 4, 2005 7:01 AM Re: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

Thats not like you Fraggle me boy? maybe drinking too much? you know it is a depressant?

Sorry to rain on your parade,

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

thanx nikki

sorry..just a tad overwhelmed and utterly defeated feeling... nikki_mackovitch Jun 4, 2005 4:44 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* It looks grim and will get worse, that's for sureBut I believe that nothing is set in stone. It will take a long time and it won't be easy. But it can change and we can change it.Keep trying. Talk to one person a day, or even a week. Little by little, step by step.> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....I can, you! :)We humans tend to do some amazing things, but ya can't give up.Tis hard, looks bleak, who knows what will happen. And maybe it will all fall to ruin. Then we pick up and re-start and hope we learned our

lessons.But until it does, I am going to keep going forward and try my best to do my part. Tho, even I do fail myself too. I try not to hold onto that tho.Nikki - just my two imperfect cents , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control

the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

ah gee, Fraggle, do you want a serious answer? If not, delete here.

Serious answer to serious question, and not part of the Y2K paranoia.

Homesteading. The whole issue is looked at, discussed and options are being

dealt with. HOWEVER, won't work for the whole wide world.

Within 10 years our place will be next thing to completely self-sufficient

(wheat and sugar being the main needs we can't grow here). We'll have

completely converted to solar and hydro for electrical. We are converting

to ondemand water heater. We are setting up a " still " to make biodiesel.

We'll have 5 acres in garden (have got the first acre cleared and a dozen

fruit trees, 30 raspberry, 3 marion berry clumps, started terracing). We'll

have a hothouse up for veggies in the winter.

AND, we bought upteen LONG miles away from the maddening crowd. Those would

be the folks who aren't paying attention, living in cities and completely

helpless when it comes to doing anything except chasing the almight dollar.

We also bought in an area where lots of folks know how to take care of

themselves, folks who know about bartering skills and have the skills.

Right now our current " goal " is learning all there is to know about herbs

and natural remedies for anything and everything. Medical treatment will be

a bartering item but the pills simpy won't be there.

Sure, it just might not happen in our lifetime but it is going to happen and

all the kidlets are being taught the basics of surviving the oil crash.

Oil and energy aren't infinite commodities but the world isn't being given

any hard, in your face facts because if the whole world woke up and faced

reality there would be a worldwide panic in the industrial nations. 3rd

world folks aren't going to suffer the consequences to the same degree.

What the heck do Indians living in the Amazon care about oil, etc. In fact,

they'd be better off without all the nonsense! AND, go right on living just

the way they have for 1000s of years!

As to ecosystems and cultures collapsing, not going to happen. Think about

it. Most ecosystems would be better off without the large populations.

Lots of cultures are still close enough to their roots to go back to doing

what they did before all the machines.

Nope, it is going to be all the city folks that are going to be up that ol'

creek without a paddle. There is going to be panic and then there isn't

going to be a whole lot they can do. They won't have anything to barter to

keep themselve in the only lifestyle they know or understand.

Lynda

-

fraggle <EBbrewpunx

> ummmm

> in all seriousness and honesty

> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY

f*cked in the near future....?

> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from

peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant

privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope

> i mean..at all???

> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every

single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

> *sigh*

>

> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the

future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the

past.^

>

> To send an email to -

>

June 4, 2005

think yer missing my point linda

i ain't bloody worried about me..i can survive off of freakin wild blackberries growin on the side of the road if i had to...well..in june july and august anyways

i'm talking civilization, society(fer wot its worth), the US, britain, the EU, all those loverly little nation states we've developed, the inter connected cultures we've built up

sorry..but, 350,000,000 million americans aren't going to live on homesteads

6.5 billion ppl aren't going to start raising little farmyards

unless we happens to find a few more habitable planets nearby and beam ppl there

as fer environments and eco-systems

i have to disagree

i think in the coming years, the environment ain't gonna mean diddily squat to people, as the resource wars intensify(this ridiculous "war on terror" is just the opening salvo)...when *they* begin to scramble fer those last pools of oil(or water, er platimum, er wotever), the plight of the yellow bellied sap sucker is going to be sorta lost in the din of "my car won't go! gas is $6 a gallon! how can i get to wal-mart? wot do you mean a loaf of wonder bread costs $10?!" etc and so forth

plus, with the added strains of global warming, ecosystems on the edge are just going to crumble

150 years ago..there were bison by the MILLIONS here across the US, mostly in the great plains, but they had bison from virginia from california to virginia

entire civilizations were built around the bison...and..with wot, a couple decades, they were 99.999999% obliterated...

it doesn't take long....

humankind is a destructive lil bugger, and tends to be blind to a lot of crap....

i can easily see wot remaining pockets of "natural" areas going bye bye in the frantic (and ultimately futile)search to keep our way of life bumping along

ever heard of the great auk? it was a large flightless bird that lived in huge populations in the north atlantic...since it was flightless it was an easy target fer fishermen, sealers, whalers and sailors who plied the north atlantic..they'd land on an island where the big birds were nesting, and beat the living crap out of em, chase em into nets, wotever...

supply seemed endless

turned em into food, oil, and then there began this huge demand fer fresh eggs on the eastern seaboard(US)

soon..the birds began to vanish

which began a craze amongst museums to gather the last specimesn fer their collections

the story goes that sometime in the 19th century, the last pair of great auks known were bludgeoned to death off the coast of iceland by some collectors...and their egg was trampled in the process..... Lynda Jun 4, 2005 9:17 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* ah gee, Fraggle, do you want a serious answer? If not, delete here.Serious answer to serious question, and not part of the Y2K paranoia.Homesteading. The whole issue is looked at, discussed and options are beingdealt with. HOWEVER, won't work for the whole wide world.Within 10 years our place will be next thing to completely self-sufficient(wheat and sugar being the main needs we can't grow here). We'll havecompletely converted to solar and hydro for electrical. We are convertingto ondemand water heater. We are setting up a "still" to make biodiesel.We'll have 5 acres in garden (have got the first acre cleared and a dozenfruit trees, 30 raspberry, 3 marion berry clumps, started terracing). We'llhave a hothouse up for veggies in the winter.AND, we bought upteen LONG miles away from the maddening crowd. Those wouldbe the folks who aren't paying attention, living in cities and completelyhelpless when it comes to doing anything except chasing the almight dollar.We also bought in an area where lots of folks know how to take care ofthemselves, folks who know about bartering skills and have the skills.Right now our current "goal" is learning all there is to know about herbsand natural remedies for anything and everything. Medical treatment will bea bartering item but the pills simpy won't be there.Sure, it just might not happen in our lifetime but it is going to happen andall the kidlets are being taught the basics of surviving the oil crash.Oil and energy aren't infinite commodities but the world isn't being givenany hard, in your face facts because if the whole world woke up and facedreality there would be a worldwide panic in the industrial nations. 3rdworld folks aren't going to suffer the consequences to the same degree.What the heck do Indians living in the Amazon care about oil, etc. In fact,they'd be better off without all the nonsense! AND, go right on living justthe way they have for 1000s of years!As to ecosystems and cultures collapsing, not going to happen. Think aboutit. Most ecosystems would be better off without the large populations.Lots of cultures are still close enough to their roots to go back to doingwhat they did before all the machines.Nope, it is going to be all the city folks that are going to be up that ol'creek without a paddle. There is going to be panic and then there isn'tgoing to be a whole lot they can do. They won't have anything to barter tokeep themselve in the only lifestyle they know or understand.Lynda-fraggle <EBbrewpunx> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLYf*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away frompeak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampantprivitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of everysingle economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*>>>>> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control thefuture, control the present; Those who control the present, control thepast.^>>>> To send an email to - >

June 4, 2005

What makes it civilization? Greed, destructive behavior, me, me, me? Well then, oh well to civilization. I didn't miss the point, I just didn't say in so many words what is going to happen. Millions will run around like chickens with their heads cut off and they will die. All those "great" factories will grind to a halt, as will all the greed machines. No more Wall Street, no more whatever in whichever country. Oh well.

The folks that get it, that know one can't abuse Mother Earth to the enth degree will survive using the same philosophy that is still used in many "uncivilized" groups, "take only what you need, leave no footprint."

sure, what's been lost will be lost but there won't be whitemen out there paying folks to kill and destroy so they can make another dollar. There won't be anymore hoarded bones of indigenous peoples or extinct animals in museums.

Those who have learned to live with AND not destroy the earth will survive. Those in cities, for the most part, won't.

And it isn't the future that the environment won't mean diddly, it doesn't now. Some folks are fighting to save what they can.

So, how many put any effort into saving the environment or ecosystems? I realise folks on this list are interested in saving animals but, for what if there is no environment for them to live in. Do any of you work with your local native plants groups to stop invasives and stop the extinction of more plants? Do you do rescues of habitat for endangered species?

Lynda

-

fraggle

Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:02 AM

Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

think yer missing my point linda

i ain't bloody worried about me..i can survive off of freakin wild blackberries growin on the side of the road if i had to...well..in june july and august anyways

i'm talking civilization, society(fer wot its worth), the US, britain, the EU, all those loverly little nation states we've developed, the inter connected cultures we've built up

sorry..but, 350,000,000 million americans aren't going to live on homesteads

6.5 billion ppl aren't going to start raising little farmyards

unless we happens to find a few more habitable planets nearby and beam ppl there

as fer environments and eco-systems

i have to disagree

i think in the coming years, the environment ain't gonna mean diddily squat to people, as the resource wars intensify(this ridiculous "war on terror" is just the opening salvo)...when *they* begin to scramble fer those last pools of oil(or water, er platimum, er wotever), the plight of the yellow bellied sap sucker is going to be sorta lost in the din of "my car won't go! gas is $6 a gallon! how can i get to wal-mart? wot do you mean a loaf of wonder bread costs $10?!" etc and so forth

plus, with the added strains of global warming, ecosystems on the edge are just going to crumble

150 years ago..there were bison by the MILLIONS here across the US, mostly in the great plains, but they had bison from virginia from california to virginia

entire civilizations were built around the bison...and..with wot, a couple decades, they were 99.999999% obliterated...

it doesn't take long....

humankind is a destructive lil bugger, and tends to be blind to a lot of crap....

i can easily see wot remaining pockets of "natural" areas going bye bye in the frantic (and ultimately futile)search to keep our way of life bumping along

ever heard of the great auk? it was a large flightless bird that lived in huge populations in the north atlantic...since it was flightless it was an easy target fer fishermen, sealers, whalers and sailors who plied the north atlantic..they'd land on an island where the big birds were nesting, and beat the living crap out of em, chase em into nets, wotever...

supply seemed endless

turned em into food, oil, and then there began this huge demand fer fresh eggs on the eastern seaboard(US)

soon..the birds began to vanish

which began a craze amongst museums to gather the last specimesn fer their collections

the story goes that sometime in the 19th century, the last pair of great auks known were bludgeoned to death off the coast of iceland by some collectors...and their egg was trampled in the process..... Lynda Jun 4, 2005 9:17 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* ah gee, Fraggle, do you want a serious answer? If not, delete here.Serious answer to serious question, and not part of the Y2K paranoia.Homesteading. The whole issue is looked at, discussed and options are beingdealt with. HOWEVER, won't work for the whole wide world.Within 10 years our place will be next thing to completely self-sufficient(wheat and sugar being the main needs we can't grow here). We'll havecompletely converted to solar and hydro for electrical. We are convertingto ondemand water heater. We are setting up a "still" to make biodiesel.We'll have 5 acres in garden (have got the first acre cleared and a dozenfruit trees, 30 raspberry, 3 marion berry clumps, started terracing). We'llhave a hothouse up for veggies in the winter.AND, we bought upteen LONG miles away from the maddening crowd. Those wouldbe the folks who aren't paying attention, living in cities and completelyhelpless when it comes to doing anything except chasing the almight dollar.We also bought in an area where lots of folks know how to take care ofthemselves, folks who know about bartering skills and have the skills.Right now our current "goal" is learning all there is to know about herbsand natural remedies for anything and everything. Medical treatment will bea bartering item but the pills simpy won't be there.Sure, it just might not happen in our lifetime but it is going to happen an dall the kidlets are being taught the basics of surviving the oil crash.Oil and energy aren't infinite commodities but the world isn't being givenany hard, in your face facts because if the whole world woke up and facedreality there would be a worldwide panic in the industrial nations. 3rdworld folks aren't going to suffer the consequences to the same degree.What the heck do Indians living in the Amazon care about oil, etc. In fact,they'd be better off without all the nonsense! AND, go right on living justthe way they have for 1000s of years!As to ecosystems and cultures collapsing, not going to happen. Think aboutit. Most ecosystems would be better off without the large populations.Lots of cultures are still close enough to their roots to go back to doingwhat they did before all the machines.Nope, it is going to be all the city folks that are going to be up that ol'creek without a paddle. There is going to be panic and then there isn'tgoing to be a whole lot they can do. They won't have anything to barter tokeep themselve in the only lifestyle they know or understand.Lynda-fraggle <EBbrewpunx> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLYf*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away frompeak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampantprivitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of everysingle economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*>>>>> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who co ntrol thefuture, control the present; Those who control the present, control thepast.^>>>> To send an email to - >

June 4, 2005

Although it is nice to be self-sufficient it could put you in a dangerous position if the world was in crisis because there would be lots of people wanting a slice of what you have, and trying to take it.

Jo

-

fraggle

Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:02 PM

Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

think yer missing my point linda

i ain't bloody worried about me..i can survive off of freakin wild blackberries growin on the side of the road if i had to...well..in june july and august anyways

i'm talking civilization, society(fer wot its worth), the US, britain, the EU, all those loverly little nation states we've developed, the inter connected cultures we've built up

sorry..but, 350,000,000 million americans aren't going to live on homesteads

6.5 billion ppl aren't going to start raising little farmyards

unless we happens to find a few more habitable planets nearby and beam ppl there

as fer environments and eco-systems

i have to disagree

i think in the coming years, the environment ain't gonna mean diddily squat to people, as the resource wars intensify(this ridiculous "war on terror" is just the opening salvo)...when *they* begin to scramble fer those last pools of oil(or water, er platimum, er wotever), the plight of the yellow bellied sap sucker is going to be sorta lost in the din of "my car won't go! gas is $6 a gallon! how can i get to wal-mart? wot do you mean a loaf of wonder bread costs $10?!" etc and so forth

plus, with the added strains of global warming, ecosystems on the edge are just going to crumble

150 years ago..there were bison by the MILLIONS here across the US, mostly in the great plains, but they had bison from virginia from california to virginia

entire civilizations were built around the bison...and..with wot, a couple decades, they were 99.999999% obliterated...

it doesn't take long....

humankind is a destructive lil bugger, and tends to be blind to a lot of crap....

i can easily see wot remaining pockets of "natural" areas going bye bye in the frantic (and ultimately futile)search to keep our way of life bumping along

ever heard of the great auk? it was a large flightless bird that lived in huge populations in the north atlantic...since it was flightless it was an easy target fer fishermen, sealers, whalers and sailors who plied the north atlantic..they'd land on an island where the big birds were nesting, and beat the living crap out of em, chase em into nets, wotever...

supply seemed endless

turned em into food, oil, and then there began this huge demand fer fresh eggs on the eastern seaboard(US)

soon..the birds began to vanish

which began a craze amongst museums to gather the last specimesn fer their collections

the story goes that sometime in the 19th century, the last pair of great auks known were bludgeoned to death off the coast of iceland by some collectors...and their egg was trampled in the process..... Lynda Jun 4, 2005 9:17 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* ah gee, Fraggle, do you want a serious answer? If not, delete here.Serious answer to serious question, and not part of the Y2K paranoia.Homesteading. The whole issue is looked at, discussed and options are beingdealt with. HOWEVER, won't work for the whole wide world.Within 10 years our place will be next thing to completely self-sufficient(wheat and sugar being the main needs we can't grow here). We'll havecompletely converted to solar and hydro for electrical. We are convertingto ondemand water heater. We are setting up a "still" to make biodiesel.We'll have 5 acres in garden (have got the first acre cleared and a dozenfruit trees, 30 raspberry, 3 marion berry clumps, started terracing). We'llhave a hothouse up for veggies in the winter.AND, we bought upteen LONG miles away from the maddening crowd. Those wouldbe the folks who aren't paying attention, living in cities and completelyhelpless when it comes to doing anything except chasing the almight dollar.We also bought in an area where lots of folks know how to take care ofthemselves, folks who know about bartering skills and have the skills.Right now our current "goal" is learning all there is to know about herbsand natural remedies for anything and everything. Medical treatment will bea bartering item but the pills simpy won't be there.Sure, it just might not happen in our lifetime but it is going to happen an dall the kidlets are being taught the basics of surviving the oil crash.Oil and energy aren't infinite commodities but the world isn't being givenany hard, in your face facts because if the whole world woke up and facedreality there would be a worldwide panic in the industrial nations. 3rdworld folks aren't going to suffer the consequences to the same degree.What the heck do Indians living in the Amazon care about oil, etc. In fact,they'd be better off without all the nonsense! AND, go right on living justthe way they have for 1000s of years!As to ecosystems and cultures collapsing, not going to happen. Think aboutit. Most ecosystems would be better off without the large populations.Lots of cultures are still close enough to their roots to go back to doingwhat they did before all the machines.Nope, it is going to be all the city folks that are going to be up that ol'creek without a paddle. There is going to be panic and then there isn'tgoing to be a whole lot they can do. They won't have anything to barter tokeep themselve in the only lifestyle they know or understand.Lynda-fraggle <EBbrewpunx> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLYf*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away frompeak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampantprivitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of everysingle economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*>>>>> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who co ntrol thefuture, control the present; Those who control the present, control thepast.^>>>> To send an email to - >

June 4, 2005

Cheer up Fraggle - being miserable won't help anything.

BBJo

-

fraggle

Saturday, June 04, 2005 2:38 PM

Re: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

thanx

but

currently in the mind thought that it all really doesn't matter...

we are beyond the carrying capacity fer this little blue planet

we are about to hit that cute little wall where our energy source we've become addicted to and use for everything goes bye bye er becomes harder to get

might not matter much if yer a kalihari bush person...

sorta gonna be beyond rough fer us in the western world

sorry..not the usual cheery optimistic fraggle

thank you tho fer answering and trying....

really

fraggle Anouk Sickler Jun 3, 2005 9:47 PM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* Dear fraggleKnow that every small action, matters, althought it may not seem like it. where we shop, what we eat, what we drive, everyone of those actions is a statement, a message that we give out. I share your sentiments exactly, I feel frustrated, I want to do more, I want respect for the animals, Respect and Preservation of mother nature.. It is scary what is happening to her..Sometimes, after watching a video depicting animal cruelty, I have gone to bed with tears in my eyes. I hate that feeling. but being sensitive can also be a Gift. I come from a very BACKWARD area of the country, I have very big frustrations. I am sourrounded by people, who, are not ignorant. but are proud to be ignorant. proud to be arrogant. They know they are harming the planet and they don't care. Detrimenting themselves and everyone of us. Know that Veganism, Environmentalism, truly is growing,, not fast enought but the word is spreading. In all walks of life, and all social classes, there are a small number of peoople respect our planet and fellow brothers and sisters, animals.my friend in Uruguay, emails me often, he says, Estey Angri, Estay Determin, Estay Vegan. He hasn't got much money,nor anything else, but he is true blue with no apologies. and he's got the spirit of 300 people. He inspires me, when I'm feeling down. I send you Hugz. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness an d honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 4, 2005

We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the

survival skills that we would need should your predictions come

true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program

and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do. It

may even become " The next big thing " in vacations. It would also

raise awareness.

Mary

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

> ummmm

> in all seriousness and honesty

> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and

UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?

> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat

away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to

mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there

any freakin hope

> i mean..at all???

> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of

every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....

> *sigh*

>

> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control

the future, control the present; Those who control the present,

control the past.^

June 5, 2005

I think that is a great idea,

maybe take up Scuba Diving too might be helpful in water world ...lol

Farming , metallurgy,

the big problem may be 10-20 years of turmoil where there is no way to grow crops

if that came about we would have to rely on reserves

I have been working on building up reserves on food but no where near 20 years. I might be lucky to survive on what I have for 6 months I would like to get that up to 2 years but it takes time and money,

I would invite a group of vegans here to Western Australia and we could all go bush for 2 weeks and see how well we survive?

lol

anyway

all the best Mary

Craig

*sits with a worried frown on face*We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the survival skills that we would need should your predictions come true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do. It may even become "The next big thing" in vacations. It would also raise awareness.Mary

June 5, 2005

I have seen that bush tucker program. The picture I have of

surviving in the bush is as far from vegan as any picture can be but

you probably know better. My main problem is that I am basically a

very optimistic person and always assume that everything is going to

turn out great and it somehow always does so I will be the least

prepared if anything should happen. If you do organise something

over there then put my name on the list as I have every intention of

visiting somewhere nearby in the next 2 years and I always like an

excuse to ramble. My son spent a year in oz and loved it

Mary

, " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote:

> I think that is a great idea,

> maybe take up Scuba Diving too might be helpful in water

world ...lol

> Farming , metallurgy,

> the big problem may be 10-20 years of turmoil where there is no

way to grow

> crops

> if that came about we would have to rely on reserves

> I have been working on building up reserves on food but no where

near 20

> years. I might be lucky to survive on what I have for 6 months I

would like

> to get that up to 2 years but it takes time and money,

>

> I would invite a group of vegans here to Western Australia and

we could

> all go bush for 2 weeks and see how well we survive?

> lol

>

> anyway

> all the best Mary

> Craig

>

> *sits with a worried frown on face*

>

> We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the

> survival skills that we would need should your predictions come

> true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program

> and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do. It

> may even become " The next big thing " in vacations. It would also

> raise awareness.

> Mary

June 5, 2005

ok we will make it official,

October 2006 say from the 5th to the 20th (please allow for flight times)

we will all meet and go bush for 12-14 days (this allows for travel etc.)

I will inform of details later.

I do know some prices of things without going to far (need to be confirmed)

http://www.autorentals.com.au/English/rentalvehiclesen_nz/index.cfm?subAction=vehicleDetail & vehicleID=230

transport and sleeping

I have a 4 wheel drive and a tent trailer so without further cost I can take 2-3 persons

I also have an extra 2 man tent.

a tent trailer like ours cost $A250 a week to hire

plus a 4 wheel drive hire ...probably $A500. per week (just a guess) Brits has a POA policy

this would accommodate another 5 people

we could take plenty of our own food but try to see what we could find (believe me it is scarce for a Vegan)

but that could be discussed later

so with these Rough details

anyone interested I will plan further and give you better costs

while in Perth everyone can stay at my place if they want.

so if anyone or everyone is interested lets do it

=o]]

all the best

Craig

On Behalf Of Mary MinihaneSunday, June 05, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*I have seen that bush tucker program. The picture I have of surviving in the bush is as far from vegan as any picture can be but you probably know better. My main problem is that I am basically a very optimistic person and always assume that everything is going to turn out great and it somehow always does so I will be the least prepared if anything should happen. If you do organise something over there then put my name on the list as I have every intention of visiting somewhere nearby in the next 2 years and I always like an excuse to ramble. My son spent a year in oz and loved itMary , "Craig Dearth" <cd39@e...> wrote:> I think that is a great idea,> maybe take up Scuba Diving too might be helpful in water world ...lol> Farming , metallurgy,> the big problem may be 10-20 years of turmoil where there is no way to grow> crops> if that came about we would have to rely on reserves> I have been working on building up reserves on food but no where near 20> years. I might be lucky to survive on what I have for 6 months I would like> to get that up to 2 years but it takes time and money,> > I would invite a group of vegans here to Western Australia and we could> all go bush for 2 weeks and see how well we survive?> lol> > anyway> all the best Mary> Craig> > > > *sits with a worried frown on face*> > > We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the> survival skills that we would need should your predictions come> true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program> and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do. It> may even become "The next big thing" in vacations. It would also> raise awareness.> MaryTo send an email to -

June 5, 2005

I have marked it in my diary so you can take my acceptance as

official. I look forward to it.

Mary

, " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote:

> ok we will make it official,

>

> October 2006 say from the 5th to the 20th (please allow for flight

times)

> we will all meet and go bush for 12-14 days (this allows for

travel etc.)

> I will inform of details later.

> I do know some prices of things without going to far (need to be

confirmed)

>

http://www.autorentals.com.au/English/rentalvehiclesen_nz/index.cfm?

subActio

> n=vehicleDetail & vehicleID=230

> transport and sleeping

> I have a 4 wheel drive and a tent trailer so without further cost

I can take

> 2-3 persons

> I also have an extra 2 man tent.

> a tent trailer like ours cost $A250 a week to hire

> plus a 4 wheel drive hire ...probably $A500. per week (just a

guess) Brits

> has a POA policy

> this would accommodate another 5 people

>

> we could take plenty of our own food but try to see what we could

find

> (believe me it is scarce for a Vegan)

> but that could be discussed later

> so with these Rough details

> anyone interested I will plan further and give you better costs

> while in Perth everyone can stay at my place if they want.

>

> so if anyone or everyone is interested lets do it

> =o]]

>

> all the best

> Craig

>

On

> Behalf Of Mary Minihane

> Sunday, June 05, 2005 10:38 PM

>

> Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

>

> I have seen that bush tucker program. The picture I have of

> surviving in the bush is as far from vegan as any picture can be

but

> you probably know better. My main problem is that I am basically a

> very optimistic person and always assume that everything is going

to

> turn out great and it somehow always does so I will be the least

> prepared if anything should happen. If you do organise something

> over there then put my name on the list as I have every intention

of

> visiting somewhere nearby in the next 2 years and I always like an

> excuse to ramble. My son spent a year in oz and loved it

> Mary

>

> , " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...>

wrote:

> > I think that is a great idea,

> > maybe take up Scuba Diving too might be helpful in water

> world ...lol

> > Farming , metallurgy,

> > the big problem may be 10-20 years of turmoil where there is no

> way to grow

> > crops

> > if that came about we would have to rely on reserves

> > I have been working on building up reserves on food but no where

> near 20

> > years. I might be lucky to survive on what I have for 6 months I

> would like

> > to get that up to 2 years but it takes time and money,

> >

> > I would invite a group of vegans here to Western Australia

and

> we could

> > all go bush for 2 weeks and see how well we survive?

> > lol

> >

> > anyway

> > all the best Mary

> > Craig

> >

> > *sits with a worried frown on face*

> >

> > We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the

> > survival skills that we would need should your predictions come

> > true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program

> > and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do.

It

> > may even become " The next big thing " in vacations. It would also

> > raise awareness.

> > Mary

>

> To send an email to -

>

> -

---------

> ----

>

June 5, 2005

Do you folks have a book about what plants to eat or not eat. I know here (CA) we have them for every region. If folks are going to do this, then that would be a good thing to bring along.

Lynda

-

Craig Dearth

Sunday, June 05, 2005 8:48 AM

RE: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

ok we will make it official,

October 2006 say from the 5th to the 20th (please allow for flight times)

we will all meet and go bush for 12-14 days (this allows for travel etc.)

I will inform of details later.

I do know some prices of things without going to far (need to be confirmed)

http://www.autorentals.com.au/English/rentalvehiclesen_nz/index.cfm?subAction=vehicleDetail & vehicleID=230

transport and sleeping

I have a 4 wheel drive and a tent trailer so without further cost I can take 2-3 persons

I also have an extra 2 man tent.

a tent trailer like ours cost $A250 a week to hire

plus a 4 wheel drive hire ...probably $A500. per week (just a guess) Brits has a POA policy

this would accommodate another 5 people

we could take plenty of our own food but try to see what we could find (believe me it is scarce for a Vegan)

but that could be discussed later

so with these Rough details

anyone interested I will plan further and give you better costs

while in Perth everyone can stay at my place if they want.

so if anyone or everyone is interested lets do it

=o]]

all the best

Craig

On Behalf Of Mary MinihaneSunday, June 05, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*I have seen that bush tucker program. The picture I have of surviving in the bush is as far from vegan as any picture can be but you probably know better. My main problem is that I am basically a very optimistic person and always assume that everything is going to turn out great and it somehow always does so I will be the least prepared if anything should happen. If you do organise something over there then put my name on the list as I have every intention of visiting somewhere nearby in the next 2 years and I always like an excuse to ramble. My son spent a year in oz and loved itMary , "Craig Dearth" <cd39@e...> wrote:> I think that is a great idea,> maybe take up Scuba Diving too might be helpful in water world ...lol> Farming , metallurgy,> the big problem may be 10-20 years of turmoil where there is no way to grow> crops> if that came about we would have to rely on reserves> I have been working on building up reserves on food but no where near 20> years. I might be lucky to survive on what I have for 6 months I would like> to get that up to 2 years but it takes time and money,> > I would invite a group of vegans here to Western Australia and we could> all go bush for 2 weeks and see how well we survive?> lol> > anyway> all the best Mary> Craig> > > > *sits with a worried frown on face*> > > We should probably all be setting some time aside to learn the> survival skills that we would need should your predictions come> true. It may be a good business idea to set up a training program> and people can go and spend their vacation learning what to do. It> may even become "The next big thing" in vacations. It would also> raise awareness.> MaryTo send an email to - To send an email to -

June 5, 2005

just full of compassion ain't ya?

as fer yer other point...why yes, yes i have...i've volunteered with everyone from the California Native Plant Society to San Bruno Mountain Watch and Save Mt Diablo

stopping invasive plants is akin t o pissin on a forest fire nowadays Lynda Jun 4, 2005 11:36 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

What makes it civilization? Greed, destructive behavior, me, me, me? Well then, oh well to civilization. I didn't miss the point, I just didn't say in so many words what is going to happen. Millions will run around like chickens with their heads cut off and they will die. All those "great" factories will grind to a halt, as will all the greed machines. No more Wall Street, no more whatever in whichever country. Oh well.

The folks that get it, that know one can't abuse Mother Earth to the enth degree will survive using the same philosophy that is still used in many "uncivilized" groups, "take only what you need, leave no footprint."

sure, what's been lost will be lost but there won't be whitemen out there paying folks to kill and destroy so they can make another dollar. There won't be anymore hoarded bones of indigenous peoples or extinct animals in museums.

Those who have learned to live with AND not destroy the earth will survive. Those in cities, for the most part, won't.

And it isn't the future that the environment won't mean diddly, it doesn't now. Some folks are fighting to save what they can.

So, how many put any effort into saving the environment or ecosystems? I realise folks on this list are interested in saving animals but, for what if there is no environment for them to live in. Do any of you work with your local native plants groups to stop invasives and stop the extinction of more plants? Do you do rescues of habitat for endangered species?

Lynda

-

fraggle

Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:02 AM

Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

think yer missing my point linda

i ain't bloody worried about me..i can survive off of freakin wild blackberries growin on the side of the road if i had to...well..in june july and august anyways

i'm talking civilization, society(fer wot its worth), the US, britain, the EU, all those loverly little nation states we've developed, the inter connected cultures we've built up

sorry..but, 350,000,000 million americans aren't going to live on homesteads

6.5 billion ppl aren't going to start raising little farmyards

unless we happens to find a few more habitable planets nearby and beam ppl there

as fer environments and eco-systems

i have to disagree

i think in the coming years, the environment ain't gonna mean diddily squat to people, as the resource wars intensify(this ridiculous "war on terror" is just the opening salvo)...when *they* begin to scramble fer those last pools of oil(or water, er platimum, er wotever), the plight of the yellow bellied sap sucker is going to be sorta lost in the din of "my car won't go! gas is $6 a gallon! how can i get to wal-mart? wot do you mean a loaf of wonder bread costs $10?!" etc and so forth

plus, with the added strains of global warming, ecosystems on the edge are just going to crumble

150 years ago..there were bison by the MILLIONS here across the US, mostly in the great plains, but they had bison from virginia from california to virginia

entire civilizations were built around the bison...and..with wot, a couple decades, they were 99.999999% obliterated...

it doesn't take long....

humankind is a destructive lil bugger, and tends to be blind to a lot of crap....

i can easily see wot remaining pockets of "natural" areas going bye bye in the frantic (and ultimately futile)search to keep our way of life bumping along

ever heard of the great auk? it was a large flightless bird that lived in huge populations in the north atlantic...since it was flightless it was an easy target fer fishermen, sealers, whalers and sailors who plied the north atlantic..they'd land on an island where the big birds were nesting, and beat the living crap out of em, chase em into nets, wotever...

supply seemed endless

turned em into food, oil, and then there began this huge demand fer fresh eggs on the eastern seaboard(US)

soon..the birds began to vanish

which began a craze amongst museums to gather the last specimesn fer their collections

the story goes that sometime in the 19th century, the last pair of great auks known were bludgeoned to death off the coast of iceland by some collectors...and their egg was trampled in the process..... Lynda Jun 4, 2005 9:17 AM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* ah gee, Fraggle, do you want a serious answer? If not, delete here.Serious answer to serious question, and not part of the Y2K paranoia.Homesteading. The whole issue is looked at, discussed and options are beingdealt with. HOWEVER, won't work for the whole wide world.Within 10 years our place will be next thing to completely self-sufficient(wheat and sugar being the main needs we can't grow here). We'll havecompletely converted to solar and hydro for electrical. We are convertingto ondemand water heater. We are setting up a "still" to make biodiesel.We'll have 5 acres in garden (have got the first acre cleared and a dozenfruit trees, 30 raspberry, 3 marion berry clumps, started terracing). We'llhave a hothouse up for veggies in the winter.AND, we bought upteen LONG miles away from the maddening crowd. Those wouldbe the folks who aren't paying attention, living in cities and completelyhelpless when it comes to doing anything except chasing the almight dollar.We also bought in an area where lots of folks know how to take care ofthemselves, folks who know about bartering skills and have the skills.Right now our current "goal" is learning all there is to know about herbsand natural remedies for anything and everything. Medical treatment will bea bartering item but the pills simpy won't be there.Sure, it just might not happen in our lifetime but it is going to happen an dall the kidlets are being taught the basics of surviving the oil crash.Oil and energy aren't infinite commodities but the world isn't being givenany hard, in your face facts because if the whole world woke up and facedreality there would be a worldwide panic in the industrial nations. 3rdworld folks aren't going to suffer the consequences to the same degree.What the heck do Indians living in the Amazon care about oil, etc. In fact,they'd be better off without all the nonsense! AND, go right on living justthe way they have for 1000s of years!As to ecosystems and cultures collapsing, not going to happen. Think aboutit. Most ecosystems would be better off without the large populations.Lots of cultures are still close enough to their roots to go back to doingwhat they did before all the machines.Nope, it is going to be all the city folks that are going to be up that ol'creek without a paddle. There is going to be panic and then there isn'tgoing to be a whole lot they can do. They won't have anything to barter tokeep themselve in the only lifestyle they know or understand.Lynda-fraggle <EBbrewpunx> ummmm> in all seriousness and honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLYf*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away frompeak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampantprivitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of everysingle economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*>>>>> Those who control the past, control the future; Those who co ntrol thefuture, control the present; Those who control the present, control thepast.^>>>> To send an email to - >

June 5, 2005

sorry

all i need to do is spend a few seconds thinkin about it and..blah Jo Cwazy Jun 4, 2005 12:58 PM Re: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

Cheer up Fraggle - being miserable won't help anything.

BBJo

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fraggle

Saturday, June 04, 2005 2:38 PM

Re: Re: *sits with a worried frown on face*

thanx

but

currently in the mind thought that it all really doesn't matter...

we are beyond the carrying capacity fer this little blue planet

we are about to hit that cute little wall where our energy source we've become addicted to and use for everything goes bye bye er becomes harder to get

might not matter much if yer a kalihari bush person...

sorta gonna be beyond rough fer us in the western world

sorry..not the usual cheery optimistic fraggle

thank you tho fer answering and trying....

really

fraggle Anouk Sickler Jun 3, 2005 9:47 PM Re: *sits with a worried frown on face* Dear fraggleKnow that every small action, matters, althought it may not seem like it. where we shop, what we eat, what we drive, everyone of those actions is a statement, a message that we give out. I share your sentiments exactly, I feel frustrated, I want to do more, I want respect for the animals, Respect and Preservation of mother nature.. It is scary what is happening to her..Sometimes, after watching a video depicting animal cruelty, I have gone to bed with tears in my eyes. I hate that feeling. but being sensitive can also be a Gift. I come from a very BACKWARD area of the country, I have very big frustrations. I am sourrounded by people, who, are not ignorant. but are proud to be ignorant. proud to be arrogant. They know they are harming the planet and they don't care. Detrimenting themselves and everyone of us. Know that Veganism, Environmentalism, truly is growing,, not fast enought but the word is spreading. In all walks of life, and all social classes, there are a small number of peoople respect our planet and fellow brothers and sisters, animals.my friend in Uruguay, emails me often, he says, Estey Angri, Estay Determin, Estay Vegan. He hasn't got much money,nor anything else, but he is true blue with no apologies. and he's got the spirit of 300 people. He inspires me, when I'm feeling down. I send you Hugz. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> ummmm> in all seriousness an d honesty> can ANYONE tell me we aren't overwhelmingly, completely, and UTTERLY f*cked in the near future....?> with oil production worldwide either at its peak er a heartbeat away from peak..with water usage about to outstrip demand(not to mention the rampant privitization of such a resource...)...is there any freakin hope> i mean..at all???> i can't think of a single alternative to the impending collapse of every single economy, ecosystem and culture worldwide....> *sigh*> > > > > Those who control the past, control the future; Those who control the future, control the present; Those who control the present, control the past.^To send an email to -

June 5, 2005

I think your tone is way over the top here, and I think we should avoid racist remarks - especially as I was accused of being racist when I wasn't. White people are not the only race (if you lump all white into one race) to cause trouble in this world.

The RSPB believe in keeping races of ducks pure and wanted to kill all the Chinese Mandaring ducks because they were breeding with the local white ducks and making an impure breed - imagine! Well to me, that is nazism, and not something I support.

It is sad that you will be so happy when the factories etc. close and lots of peoples lives are turned upside down, or lost. You must be a really hard-hearted person.

Jo

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fraggle

Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:08 PM