Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi Guys, This is the answer I posted to another group in response to a post from a friend who is an Atheist. I suggest that you read John's post before reading my response. My nest post will concern a healthy life-stye. Jim Hi John, I have no problem if a person doesn't believe in God. Who knows, we Christians might be wrong. It is not up to me to attempt to convert anyone to any religion. I agree with you that belief in a better world after death does not excuse our lack of moral action while we live on Earth. I have often pointed out in my sermons that Christians have no monopoly on living a moral life. One need not be a religious person to act morally. Being religious does not automatically make a person moral. Some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed by religious people, in the name of religion. We are not moral because we are Christians, some of us are Christians because we are moral. But again, not all moral people are religious. Eating meat and torturing animals is just as wrong for an atheist as it is for a Christian. In my years as a minister, I saw the great majority of my congregation living miserable, unhappy lives. Yet we refer to Christianity as the "Good News." Why is this the case? Because most Christians have used their free will to ignore the guidance of their conscience. once a person stops listening to the moral guidance of their conscience, all bets are off. For example, Buck Fever. The first time a person decides to become a hunter, he hesitates to pull the trigger. His conscience tells him that it is wrong to kill another living being. if he kills anyway, the next kill comes easy. Easier each time. Once the guidance of the conscience is ignored, the gates of hell are opened. Child molestation, wife abuse, stealing, torture, murder, love of vulgarity, rebellious children, in fact, every vile evil that can be imagined become everyday occurrences in the live of such a person. The sad thing is that they have no idea why their lives are so miserable and unhappy. If you want to know whether you are going to Heaven or Hell, see where you are living now. You don't have to wait until you die to find where you will spend eternity. [ this is for any Christians who might be reading this post." Eating meat and using animal by products is wrong be you Christian or atheist. The only chance any person has for happiness rests on whether or not the conscience is respected and it's guidance is followed. Rev. Jim John Davis <mcxg46 wrote: Hi,>It is not up to us to judge meat eaters. They reap enough punishment as itis, with more to >follow after death.<big snip>Yes, but for those of us who do not believe in god, an afterlife, or theexistence of a soul, we often believe that it is up to humans to make theconditions of the world better in this life, not hope that justice will bemeted out in the next. So I believe it is up to us - and hopefuly eventuallysociety - to judge meat eaters, just as it is up to society to judgemurders, rapists, torturers, etc.Besides, even if you do believe in god and an afterlife, surely that is noexcuse to let this life go to hell for fear of judging those who, accordingto your framework of right and wrong, are wrong?As for meat-eaters being unhappy, I can safely say that I was a lot happierwhen I was eating meat in blissful ignorance. Meat tastes good. Not feelingguilt whenever you inadvertantly cause suffering feels good. Not findingyour relationships with friends and family strained because of veganism isan easy out. Most meat eaters go through life enjoying their meat, and diewithout having suffered in any way because of this. And, to judge by theamount of people out there who wilfully deny any evidence put before themregarding the conditions of animals used for meat and products, I would saythat most people enjoy their state of ignorance.As an aside, I hope this doesn't come across as anti-religious. That is notreally my intent, other than where being religious serves as an excuse notto act in this life, which clearly does not apply to you. So apologies inadvance if it sounded that way.And now, since I've filled up my last half hour of work on a Friday readingprivate emails, I'd best go make the dinner!Cheers,JohnTo send an email to - Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Just like to say I believe we will be judged by our actions rather than our beliefs..regardless of what we call ourselves.. be it Christian,Muslims,Atheist,etc...and I also agree that killing and eating animals is a root cause in the distructive behaviour that goes on in this world. I believe the good news today is to stop killing and eating animals. A proverb that comes to mind; In killing an animal you let the demons out..in eating one..you let them in. all the best s - James Allen Friday, March 19, 2004 6:47 PM For John Atheism And Meat Eating Hi Guys, This is the answer I posted to another group in response to a post from a friend who is an Atheist. I suggest that you read John's post before reading my response. My nest post will concern a healthy life-stye. Jim Hi John, I have no problem if a person doesn't believe in God. Who knows, we Christians might be wrong. It is not up to me to attempt to convert anyone to any religion. I agree with you that belief in a better world after death does not excuse our lack of moral action while we live on Earth. I have often pointed out in my sermons that Christians have no monopoly on living a moral life. One need not be a religious person to act morally. Being religious does not automatically make a person moral. Some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed by religious people, in the name of religion. We are not moral because we are Christians, some of us are Christians because we are moral. But again, not all moral people are religious. Eating meat and torturing animals is just as wrong for an atheist as it is for a Christian. In my years as a minister, I saw the great majority of my congregation living miserable, unhappy lives. Yet we refer to Christia! nity as the "Good News." Why is this the case? Because most Christians have used their free will to ignore the guidance of their conscience. once a person stops listening to the moral guidance of their conscience, all bets are off. For example, Buck Fever. The first time a person decides to become a hunter, he hesitates to pull the trigger. His conscience tells him that it is wrong to kill another living being. if he kills anyway, the next kill comes easy. Easier each time. Once the guidance of the conscience is ignored, the gates of hell are opened. Child molestation, wife abuse, stealing, torture, murder, love of vulgarity, rebellious children, in fact, every vile evil that can be imagined become everyday occurrences in the live of such a person. The sad thing is that they have no idea why their lives are so miserable and unhappy. If you want to know whether you are going to Heaven or Hell, see where you are living now. You don't have to wait until you die to find where you w! ill spend eternity. [ this is for any Christians who might be reading this post." Eating meat and using animal by products is wrong be you Christian or atheist. The only chance any person has for happiness rests on whether or not the conscience is respected and it's guidance is followed. Rev. Jim John Davis <mcxg46 wrote: Hi,>It is not up to us to judge meat eaters. They reap enough punishment as itis, with more to >follow after death.<big snip>Yes, but for those of us who do not believe in god, an afterlife, or theexistence of a soul, we often believe that it is up to humans to make theconditions of the world better in this life, not hope that justice will bemeted out in the next. So I believe it is up to us - and hopefuly eventuallysociety - to judge meat eaters, just as it is up to society to judgemurders, rapists, torturers, etc.Besides, even if you do believe in god and an afterlife, surely that is noexcuse to let this life go to hell for fear of judging those who, accordingto your framework of right and wrong, are wrong?As for meat-eaters being unhappy, I can safely say that I was a lot happierwhen I was eating meat in blissful ignorance. Meat tastes good. Not feelingguilt whenever you inadvertantly cause suffering feels good. Not findingyour relationships with friends and family strained because of veganism isan easy out. Most meat eaters go through life enjoying their meat, and diewithout having suffered in any way because of this. And, to judge by theamount of people out there who wilfully deny any evidence put before themregarding the conditions of animals used for meat and products, I would saythat most people enjoy their state of ignorance.As an aside, I hope this doesn't come across as anti-religious. That is notreally my intent, other than where being religious serves as an excuse notto act in this life, which clearly does not apply to you. So apologies inadvance if it sounded that way.And now, since I've filled up my last half hour of work on a Friday readingprivate emails, I'd best go make the dinner!Cheers,JohnTo send an email to - Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.