Role of Listening: Listener's Perceptions vs. Speaker's Intent (WAS OT: promoting meat)

[Guest guest]

Hi Erica, Janet, and all,

 

While I agree, philosophically, with the idea that killing is killing,

eating meat derives from killing, etc., I also feel a strong sense of

compassion for Joe in this conversation, in this sense: Although he (Joe)

has indeed spoken of eating meat as something that, in his opinion, people

can safely do in moderation (as he understands moderation), I believe the

point he is trying to make, more recently and more than once, is that he

does not intend to ADVOCATE that anyone eat meat. And while my own beliefs

and opinions in this matter differ markedly from those he has expressed, I

believe it would be helpful if we all stepped back for a moment, just to

acknowledge that he, as anyone, is entitled to hold and to express his

beliefs and opinions freely, and further to acknowledge his own belief that

he is not advocating eating meat.

 

It's important for us to distinguish between what WE may PERCEIVE as

inherent advocating and what Joe (or anyone) INTENDS. I do believe his

intent is not to advocate, but rather only to share his beliefs and

preferences in the matter, and I take his comments at face value in this

way.

 

Secondarily, whereas this is a vegan RF group, nevertheless, people do come

from every background and seek to reconcile what they have learned elsewhere

with what they encounter here. Many of the ideas taught and discussed here

may seem quite new and rather foreign to many, particularly at first. That

someone wishes to discuss eating meat offends me personally no more than

that someone wishes to advocate master cleanses, garlic, or whatever. I

would neither teach nor otherwise advocate none of these things, but people

certainly have a right to discuss them and to attempt to formulate their own

perceptions and choices.

 

I hope I'm making my point clearly. And Joe, please accept my apology for

speaking you here in the third person for a few moments. Not my typical

style at all.

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Erica

Friday, September 21, 2007 11:58 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] OT: promoting meat....was Re: Vores

 

 

Hi - this is a very interesting topic....

 

I agree with Janet that when death is involved, it is more than just a

" guilty pleasure " on our end of the transaction, and should be considered

more than such. That's like saying any other offensive crime is okay once

in awhile as long as it's not the " rule " .

 

Also, I agree that it is important to really enforce healthy foods for

children. I know raw parents who don't want to " force " their way of eating

on their kids, and continue feeding them deadly stuff. I don't get it,

plain and simple. It's worse when parents KNOW it causes MS, Cancer and

worse, you know?

 

One such parent is a colonic hydrotherapist, too, and let her 7 year old

order deep-fried crap at a restaurant. That child was soooo ill from it,

and so I ended up spending my evening watching him while she ran out for

meds, all freaked out. I saw it as total irresponsibility. And stupidity.

7 year olds don't know enough. That is what parents are for.....

 

Hi Janet, This needs to stop. I will just finish by saying that you CAN

incorporate raw eating LESS THAN 100% and STILL reap the benefits of it.

 

Joe, you are 100% right about this. The Hallelujah Diet website is all the

proof anyone needs. They enforce about a 80%/20% or %90/%10 raw

vegan/cooked vegan diet, with lots of live juices. They have one of the

BEST testimonial sections online for this diet - it even has a Search

engine. It just goes to show that there is more than one successful avenue

for living foods. Even the Gerson Institute uses select cooked vegan meals

and 100% live juices, a gallon a day per client, as well as a few other

modalities, and has tremendous success with extremely rare and intense

cancers as well as other diseases.

 

And I'm sure many raw-ers still drink coffee, which is way worse for your

health than meat. I think eating animals kills more people and obviously

more animals, per year. But you are right that coffee is atrocious.

 

I agree with you Joe that it's important not to beat yourself up at all, and

that one bagel or serving of mashed potatoes once a month, or whatever your

favorite cooked luxury is, is fine to enjoy if that is what floats your

boat. Obviously, I would hope those luxuries were vegan items, but all in

all, I agree with your logic.

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

=34419/stime=1190472669/nc1=4836036/nc2=4763757/nc3=4840950>