Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Our son is 10 and he has been vegan all his life. My husband and I have always rejoiced in being vegan -- it's one things that defines our lives -- so we've tried to instill this in our son. Nevertheless, our son has to live in a world where most people are not vegan, or even vegetarian. So sometimes being different is not so easy. When he was younger [!], he tried to convert some of the kids at school. He was so sure that if explained it, they would see the light. He was actually successful in a couple of cases, but mostly it was a case of casting pearls....and resulted in ruffled feathers (pardon the mixed metaphor). He was so disappointed that more people didn't understand. So we told him this -- We all get to make our own choices about what we will eat. And we get to either benefit from those choices or suffer because of them. We can't choose for other people, only for ourselves. But what we can do is be a good example and help people change if they want to. and this: The older you get, the more kids will be thinking about going veg. It's becoming a very cool thing to do. And just think, when they do go veg, they will think you're very cool because you've been vegan all your life. Other things that can help your son feel grounded in being veg: ***************************************************************** - Visit the Petakids Web site -- very cool... And they have some great comic books (like The Life of a Cow) that help keep things in perspective. - Talk about famous people who are vegan or vegetarian (e.g., Leonardo da Vinci and Albert Einstein). Rejoice in the good things they've done for this world. (Just do a search for famous vegans or famous vegetarians and marvel at the length of it.) - Seek out books and movies with vegetarian characters, e.g., in Jurassic Park, young Lex is a vegetarian, and turns out to be quite a heroine. - Look for a veg potluck group. - Maintain an open dialogue about all the reasons there are for being veg -- health, animal cruelty, the environment... Watch for news items about the benefits of the veg lifestyle, and also about the perils of eating animals -- e.g, what happens to people who eat cows that have Mad Cow Disease? - Let your son catch you watching a veg cooking show on TV (e.g., Christina Cooks on PBS). Watch it together. - Leave vegan cookbooks around. Cook something together and eat it in style, rejoicing in its delicious veganness. - Point out the word " VEGAN " on packaging when you go shopping. Say things like, " How cool is that! " - Rejoice in being vegan! Try to talk about what you eat in terms of positive choices -- e.g., not " We can't eat meat " but " We choose not to, " or " We prefer not to. " (Actually, my husband says, " We're vegan, so we do not consider meat to be food. " ) Good luck!! -Elyse (in Bloomington, IN, where spring hath sprung) --- On Mon, 4/6/09, admartin5 <admartin5 wrote: admartin5 <admartin5 Vegan Child Tired of Being Different Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:24 AM Last night, my 8-year old who has seemingly been content with being vegan all his life told me he is tired of eating differently than other people. I explained to him that the reason we eat the way we do is because I want what is best for him. I also told him that when he is " of age, " he can choose to eat otherwise, but as long as I am responsible for what he eats, I will only provide healthy foods for him. Of course, all these words meant nothing to him! Unfortunately, none of the people we associate with eat like us, which I guess adds to the pressure. Ironically, however, an increasingly number of people that we come in contact with want to learn more about our diet and want to incorporate it in their lives but find it hard to do so. Even knowing this, doesn't make my son feel better. Has anyone else experienced this with their child? Also, are there any children stories that you can recommend that might help a child with being different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 confectioner' s glaze " are not vegetarian. I would check with the company to see what is in thier confectioners glaze. Many commercial white sugars are not vegan since they are sifted through bone char although that is changing. When I owned my vegan bakery we used sugar that was not sifted through bone char. That included our confectioners sugar which we used to make glazes. It did take some doing to find it and I spoke to many sugar processors. Whenever I have a question about an ingredient I call the company directly. They can usually tell you the source of thier ingredients or the basic processes used to make them. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 When he was younger [!], he tried to convert some of the kids at school. My daughters have done this too. My oldest daughter has a friend who wanted to become vegetarian but her mother wouldn't allow it. She was afraid that her child wouldn't get what she needed nutritionally. Even though she sees that my daughter is never sick, is an athlete and is in all honors classes. More recently, the same daughter got a boyfriend who's mother wants to go vegan. They told me that she went out and bought some tofu but doesn't know what to do with it. I wrote up some recipes for her. She was very happy to get them. I also told her that I would be glad to talk to her about veganism and cooking for her family any time. It is interesting the different ways people think about things. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > <%40>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitionistapproach.com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlings.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion), or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Angela, I believe eating animals is wrong. This doesn't matter if someone paid for a top dollar steak, got a .99 burger, had someone offer it to them for free as a sample, or if someone dove in a dumpster for it. By diving in a dumpster for it you are not saving animals, the animal has already been slaughtered. You are just saving it from other animals and bugs eating it. You are not doing it a favor. All you are doing is saving yourself money from purchasing it. But you are still helping to create an appetite for it that may extend beyond if there happens to not be meat in the dumpster one day. I see dead animals on the road quite frequently. But I don't jump out of my car to grab the free meat so that it is not wasted. I don't want to eat meat, regardless of whether or not it is free. I also have no desire to eat everything that may emit methane when put into a landfill. My body is not a garbage disposal for ridding the world of such materials. If you eat dumpstered animal products you are not a vegetarian, obviously. But you are still contributing to the industry. Just because you didn't buy it doesn't mean you are out of it. Instead, you are part of disposal system of it for the store. The store needs to dispose of it, regardless of whether blood-lusting people dive in to get it, or it goes to a landfill where other animals and bugs will eat it. And like I said, if you eat it you will create an appetite for it and may very well purchase it later, should your economic situation improve or you get a craving for it and nobody has thrown any out. You are also not setting a good example for anyone that sees you eat that meat. They most likely won't know that you got it for free and did the cow a favor by eating it to spare it from the landfill, but they will assume that you are like eveyrone else and like eating meat. This is similar to someone that still wears leather because it hasn't worn out. To others you are endorsing that product. Life doesn't come with an asterisk attached to explain where it came from, how you got it, what you really think. Our lives are our examples. My example is that I don't eat meat. I don't care where it came from or who is offering it. I don't eat it. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi Ange, Hmmm, I think everyone has to make their own decision on this and we have friends who agree with you wholeheartedly. My feeling about it is that it’s not my responsibility to, nor can I, fix the meat industry by eating meat that has been tossed out. I’m not sure it honors an animal for me to make sure it doesn’t go to waste when I didn’t pay for or support the dismal factory farm life, killing, butchering, cooking and serving of the meat. I’d rather honor the animal by not supporting all that, not eating or wearing it ever, and knowing that I’m not part of the system. All that said, that’s my intellectual reasoning – I also don’t really want to eat any dumpster food since it’s been in a dumpster (I know, I understand the lack of waste reasons, but the ick factor is not ignorable for me), and I don’t want to eat any animal since I think it’s bad for my health, and I’d rather spend that same time doing other things that are good for the environment and animals. This is an interesting topic, though – sort of how different people make different decisions about whether to wear recycled leather or that owned before they became vegetarians, and some people are sicked out by it immediately upon not eating meat. Just shows that there are as many types of vegetarians/vegans/humans as there are humans. ☺ Have a great day! Lorraine On Behalf Of Angela Nagle Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:56 PM Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > <%40>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitionistapproach.com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlings.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion), or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't live in a big city, so I don't know of anyone who gathers food from dumpsters - though of course I have heard of it being done. I would not eat meat/dairy from dumpsters just as I would not eat my friends leftover steak just because she was going to throw it out. I am vegan strictly for ethical reasons and want above all else to limit suffering. However, I don't believe that me eating leftover animal products helps animals at all.. I definitely could not see the point in putting the flesh of animals in my mouth just so it " doesn't go to waste " . It is waste in the first place -waste of life. Hmm, I guess I could see burying it as sort of a ritual though. --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Angela Nagle <angel.nail wrote: Angela Nagle <angel.nail Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:55 PM Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health.. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlin gs.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing.. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Meat, especially cow, is just not healthy. It has been fed a steady diet of corn, which means that it has been fed a steady diet of antibiotics so it doesn't die too soon. It has been fed protein supplements, or ground dead cow, which can cause mad cow disease. I just don't see how it is worth risking your health and the health of your family. ________________________________ Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 Friday, June 19, 2009 4:55:08 PM Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different I don't live in a big city, so I don't know of anyone who gathers food from dumpsters - though of course I have heard of it being done. I would not eat meat/dairy from dumpsters just as I would not eat my friends leftover steak just because she was going to throw it out. I am vegan strictly for ethical reasons and want above all else to limit suffering. However, I don't believe that me eating leftover animal products helps animals at all.. I definitely could not see the point in putting the flesh of animals in my mouth just so it " doesn't go to waste " . It is waste in the first place -waste of life. Hmm, I guess I could see burying it as sort of a ritual though. --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different @gro ups.com Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:55 PM Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health.. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlin gs.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing.. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 no way, i would much rather throw it out than have it in my mouth and body! i've never heard of that. but everyone doe things their own way, however, it may be sending a mixed signal, if your friends know how much you are secretly enjoying something like that, sorry, that's just me. also, i wouldn't eat leftovers off of someone's plate or the garbage. janeen ________________________________ Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 Friday, June 19, 2009 5:55:08 PM Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different I don't live in a big city, so I don't know of anyone who gathers food from dumpsters - though of course I have heard of it being done. I would not eat meat/dairy from dumpsters just as I would not eat my friends leftover steak just because she was going to throw it out. I am vegan strictly for ethical reasons and want above all else to limit suffering. However, I don't believe that me eating leftover animal products helps animals at all.. I definitely could not see the point in putting the flesh of animals in my mouth just so it " doesn't go to waste " . It is waste in the first place -waste of life. Hmm, I guess I could see burying it as sort of a ritual though. --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different @gro ups.com Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:55 PM Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health.. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlin gs.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing.. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 This is a very interesting topic. Please do not take anything I post personally or as an attack on your belief system they are just my opinions, and I hold no judgement against anybody for their beliefs. In my honest opinion you should never mix words. Freegan isn't vegan. Obviously it is not even vegetarian. By mixing words it can create a confusion about what is what to those that are not well informed. It is like saying you are a pesca vegetarian. Are fish not animals, do they not have a central nervouse system? Consuming or using any animal products atomatically (in my book) excludes you from being able to use any form of the word vegan when describing yourself. I believe in leading by example. I wouldn't want my child to hear me in one sentance say we don't eat animals because of x,y, & z, and then hear me turn around and try to justify it in certain cases (like dumpster meat). I believe it would make it easier to justify in their mind a switch to a carnivorous life style. Which would increase the demand for meat. I firmly believe that when you eat an animal you are injesting all the bad energy that passed through the animal before they died. The terror of the slaughter house, the many times they were mistreated, all the chemicals to make them what humans want them to be, passes into you. I don't want that in or even around me. I too am deeply saddened when I see meat being wasted, it is another slap in the face to the poor animal. However, I belive in trying to educate people about waste like that, not trying to clean up after it. What if someone were to say " see I helped you get the protien you needed because I threw out that piece of meat. You are a vegan and wouldn't have gotten enough protien if I hadn't. That is why you ate it, your body knows it needs meat and you were craving it. " ? Could you back up a position that would show them their flawwed way of thinking, or does what they saw hold more weight? Actions speak louder than words. I want my actions to be a loud constant protest to the way the " average " American thinks about so many things especially the treatment of animals. It would be great if as soon as someone threw out a piece of meat you went and got it and asked that they say a few words in remeberance of your animal friend whose life they have just carelessly tossed aside as if it were not someones daughter, son, sister, brother, father, or mother. Then take them home and cook them the best dam meal they will ever eat afterwords informing them that no animals were harmed in the making of that meal. Amity , Angela Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > Hi Jacqueline, > Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more > freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not > eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me > goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no > ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! > There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its > like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about > veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal > products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also > think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. > Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so > instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. > This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health. > Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in > discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered > animal products on here? > Just throwing it out there! > Ange > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Hi Jacqueline, Thanks for responding to my question. Firstly dumpsters are more and more often locked to stop people getting into them, so people are not generally encouraged to become disposal units for major food outlets! I do not think that taking dairy or meat from a dumpster is saving animals i just think there is no ethical problem with it as there is no increase in demand being created. I don't believe that people change from ethical veganism because they get a taste for cheese! I had a taste for cheese, but just stopped eating it. If it happens to come my way via a dumpster than its a bit of a bonus. People dont generally dumpster just for meat or dairy either. People dumpster for what ever they can find. I think there is a misconception that people dumpster dive for reasons of poverty. My friends do not do it for such reasons, they do it because its a way to get food which creates a lesser impact on the planet than increasing demand for it. This includes fruit and vegetables, and non food items. The food is also sought for projects such as soup kitchens. Now i personally cannot eat meat whether its going to be wasted or not. It makes me sick. Dairy is becoming too rich and i hate eggs. So my dumpstered food deliveries kindly left by friends (i can't do it as its done at night and im a single mum) are not as novel anymore, although i do find the fruit and veg exciting still! Nothing like a massive bag of bananas to get you excited about cakes! So despite the fact i have had dairy etc it certainly hasn't increased my desire. I definately agree with the asterix. I dont generally take dumpstered cheese to gatherings! It would be confusing for people! If i eat food that is not vegan which is from a dumpster it is in my home or with close friends who know the ethics of it. The definitions of vegetarian and vegan differ to different people. I don't believe vegetarian's can be vegetarians of they buy eggs of any type (freerange, organic whatever) do to the slaughter of male chicks. I also do not think dairy in most cases can be classified as vegetarian due to the slaughter of male calves. I know many vegans who eat honey and that bugs me (excuse the pun!) I went to an event last night and all the vegan had doc martins on .... Anyway Im really thankful for the reply. I love a good ethics discussion and i love knowing how others feel. Alan, i have to say that i agree with Jacqueline in regards to instilling the ethics of vegetarian/veganism in children being more effective than the health benefits. My son understands compassion better than individual health. He is 2.5 and he knows that things can feel sad but has little concept of caring about his health. I dont think children really care too much about this as they cannot feel or see the direct effects of foods on their health immediately so its hard to comprehend. I also find that health vegans are very frustrating sometimes. I know a few and they still buy leather, wool new etc as they do not have the reasons backing their decisions. I think that yes it is good that they do not eat meat, but if the trend changes they are just as likely to flip to a high protein atkins diet! Anyway great conversations being had! Ange On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jbwrote: > > > Angela, > > I believe eating animals is wrong. This doesn't matter if someone paid > for a top dollar steak, got a .99 burger, had someone offer it to them > for free as a sample, or if someone dove in a dumpster for it. By diving > in a dumpster for it you are not saving animals, the animal has already > been slaughtered. You are just saving it from other animals and bugs > eating it. You are not doing it a favor. All you are doing is saving > yourself money from purchasing it. But you are still helping to create > an appetite for it that may extend beyond if there happens to not be > meat in the dumpster one day. I see dead animals on the road quite > frequently. But I don't jump out of my car to grab the free meat so that > it is not wasted. I don't want to eat meat, regardless of whether or not > it is free. I also have no desire to eat everything that may emit > methane when put into a landfill. My body is not a garbage disposal for > ridding the world of such materials. > > If you eat dumpstered animal products you are not a vegetarian, > obviously. But you are still contributing to the industry. Just because > you didn't buy it doesn't mean you are out of it. Instead, you are part > of disposal system of it for the store. The store needs to dispose of > it, regardless of whether blood-lusting people dive in to get it, or it > goes to a landfill where other animals and bugs will eat it. And like I > said, if you eat it you will create an appetite for it and may very well > purchase it later, should your economic situation improve or you get a > craving for it and nobody has thrown any out. You are also not setting a > good example for anyone that sees you eat that meat. They most likely > won't know that you got it for free and did the cow a favor by eating it > to spare it from the landfill, but they will assume that you are like > eveyrone else and like eating meat. This is similar to someone that > still wears leather because it hasn't worn out. To others you are > endorsing that product. Life doesn't come with an asterisk attached to > explain where it came from, how you got it, what you really think. Our > lives are our examples. My example is that I don't eat meat. I don't > care where it came from or who is offering it. I don't eat it. > > Jacqueline > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Hi everyone, I posted a long reply about this in another post..whoops. Its so great to see all the replies though. For validation, i don't think its saving animals by eating dumpstered meat of dairy, i think it is just doing no harm to them. I also do not eat meat from a dumpster...i can't stomach it, but i don't see anything ethically wrong with it. I do however have a strong physical sadness when i see meat and dairy being wasted. It just seems so very wrong. I like the idea of a burial though! I had never thought of that before. There was recently a situation where a lot of meat was in a freezer and could be eaten by humans, so i now have it all for my cat. Its pretty icky, but my cat is very happy and i don't see an ethical problem with it. Certainly a lot better than buying cat food which i do think is unethical. This situation of feeding other carnivores is where dumpsters are particularly handy. Dumpstering certainly does have an ick factor. I do not feed it to my son. There are pretty strict rules about what food to take etc. If dumpstered food is used in a public event, i.e food not bombs than it has to be clearly stated because of the risk it poses to pregnant woman, immune suppressed people etc. I used to be someone who happily bought leather from op shops, but its changing now. Im becoming more and more uncomfortable with it. I was never comfortable with second hand fur so i surely cant be comfortable with second hand leather! On a sustainable level its much better than buying anything new, but i do agree that it can send an ambiguous message. I just purchased a pair of vegan wares boots! I think its the same with dumpstering. I have become less and less happy to eat the dairy...i find it too rich and unlike clothing, it is uncommon that i would be at a place that i eat dumpstered food that is not my home of the home of a good friend who understands, thus reducing the ambiguity. I love explaining to friends my ethics. I love talking to anyone about it, so it is a good conversation piece! Anyway thank you everyone for making my morning very interesting! Ange On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 4:13 AM, janeen minguillo <jminshanwrote: > > > no way, i would much rather throw it out than have it in my mouth and body! > i've never heard of that. but everyone doe things their own way, however, it > may be sending a mixed signal, if your friends know how much you are > secretly enjoying something like that, sorry, that's just me. also, i > wouldn't eat leftovers off of someone's plate or the garbage. > > janeen > > > ________________________________ > Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 <jillben2008%40>> > <%40> > Friday, June 19, 2009 5:55:08 PM > Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different > > I don't live in a big city, so I don't know of anyone who gathers food from > dumpsters - though of course I have heard of it being done. I would not eat > meat/dairy from dumpsters just as I would not eat my friends leftover steak > just because she was going to throw it out. I am vegan strictly for ethical > reasons and want above all else to limit suffering. However, I don't > believe that me eating leftover animal products helps animals at all.. I > definitely could not see the point in putting the flesh of animals in my > mouth just so it " doesn't go to waste " . It is waste in the first place > -waste of life. > Hmm, I guess I could see burying it as sort of a ritual though. > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different > @gro ups.com > > Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:55 PM > > Hi Jacqueline, > Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more > freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not > eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me > goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no > ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! > There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its > like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about > veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal > products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also > think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. > Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is > so > instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. > This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual > health.. > Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in > discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered > animal products on here? > Just throwing it out there! > Ange > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > wrote: > > > > > > > Jacqueline, > > > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming > folks > > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that > all > > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's > time > > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids > about > > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > > > - Alan > > > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, > > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > > > Alan, > > > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > > self-serving. > > > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog > here: > > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least > > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great > movie! > > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > > http://www.earthlin gs.com/ It's not about what animals can do to > serve > > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or > > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good > thing.. > > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > -- > " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same > greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - > Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, > November > 2001. > > * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas > emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I meant that the freezer meat COULDN'T be eaten by humans! On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Angela Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > Hi everyone, > I posted a long reply about this in another post..whoops. Its so great to > see all the replies though. > For validation, i don't think its saving animals by eating dumpstered meat > of dairy, i think it is just doing no harm to them. I also do not eat meat > from a dumpster...i can't stomach it, but i don't see anything ethically > wrong with it. I do however have a strong physical sadness when i see meat > and dairy being wasted. It just seems so very wrong. I like the idea of a > burial though! I had never thought of that before. There was recently a > situation where a lot of meat was in a freezer and could be eaten by humans, > so i now have it all for my cat. Its pretty icky, but my cat is very happy > and i don't see an ethical problem with it. Certainly a lot better than > buying cat food which i do think is unethical. This situation of feeding > other carnivores is where dumpsters are particularly handy. > Dumpstering certainly does have an ick factor. I do not feed it to my son. > There are pretty strict rules about what food to take etc. If dumpstered > food is used in a public event, i.e food not bombs than it has to be clearly > stated because of the risk it poses to pregnant woman, immune suppressed > people etc. > I used to be someone who happily bought leather from op shops, but its > changing now. Im becoming more and more uncomfortable with it. I was never > comfortable with second hand fur so i surely cant be comfortable with second > hand leather! On a sustainable level its much better than buying anything > new, but i do agree that it can send an ambiguous message. I just purchased > a pair of vegan wares boots! I think its the same with dumpstering. I have > become less and less happy to eat the dairy...i find it too rich and unlike > clothing, it is uncommon that i would be at a place that i eat dumpstered > food that is not my home of the home of a good friend who understands, thus > reducing the ambiguity. I love explaining to friends my ethics. I love > talking to anyone about it, so it is a good conversation piece! > Anyway thank you everyone for making my morning very interesting! > Ange > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 4:13 AM, janeen minguillo <jminshanwrote: > >> >> >> no way, i would much rather throw it out than have it in my mouth and >> body! i've never heard of that. but everyone doe things their own way, >> however, it may be sending a mixed signal, if your friends know how much you >> are secretly enjoying something like that, sorry, that's just me. also, i >> wouldn't eat leftovers off of someone's plate or the garbage. >> >> janeen >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Jillene Wenzel <jillben2008 <jillben2008%40>> >> <%40> >> Friday, June 19, 2009 5:55:08 PM >> Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different >> >> I don't live in a big city, so I don't know of anyone who gathers food >> from dumpsters - though of course I have heard of it being done. I would >> not eat meat/dairy from dumpsters just as I would not eat my friends >> leftover steak just because she was going to throw it out. I am vegan >> strictly for ethical reasons and want above all else to limit suffering. >> However, I don't believe that me eating leftover animal products helps >> animals at all.. I definitely could not see the point in putting the flesh >> of animals in my mouth just so it " doesn't go to waste " . It is waste in the >> first place -waste of life. >> Hmm, I guess I could see burying it as sort of a ritual though. >> >> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: >> >> Angela Nagle <angel.nail (AT) gmail (DOT) com> >> Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different >> @gro ups.com >> >> Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:55 PM >> >> Hi Jacqueline, >> Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more >> freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in >> not >> eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me >> goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no >> ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! >> There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its >> like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing >> about >> veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal >> products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also >> think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. >> Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is >> so >> instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. >> This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual >> health.. >> Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested >> in >> discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered >> animal products on here? >> Just throwing it out there! >> Ange >> >> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Jacqueline, >> > >> > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! >> > >> > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each >> > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming >> folks >> > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. >> > >> > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that >> all >> > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's >> time >> > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. >> > >> > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids >> about >> > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our >> > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say >> > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. >> > >> > - Alan >> > >> > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, >> > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: >> > > >> > > Alan, >> > > >> > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and >> > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You >> are >> > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture >> > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me >> > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't >> > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a >> health >> > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not >> > > self-serving. >> > > >> > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some >> > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or >> > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). >> > > >> > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog >> here: >> > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least >> > > amount of suffering to animals. >> > > >> > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great >> movie! >> > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: >> > > http://www.earthlin gs.com/ It's not about what animals can do to >> serve >> > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They >> have >> > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of >> whether >> > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. >> > > >> > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this >> and >> > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's >> a >> > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves >> > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or >> > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up >> > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good >> thing.. >> > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be >> > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other >> > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the >> > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long >> > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. >> > > >> > > >> > > Jacqueline >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same >> greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - >> Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, >> November >> 2001. >> >> * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas >> emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world >> combined >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Regarding dumpster diving for meat, I'm not sure how I feel. I am a vegan for ethical reasons, so if an animal is not being harmed I suppose I don't have a quarrel with it, although I'd not do it myself because I find the consumption of flesh repulsive. But I do wonder if we'd be having this conversation if the meat in question was human flesh. When questioning whether something is ethical regarding animals or not, I find it revealing to consider how I'd feel if we were talking about people in the same context. If, say, it were my dead next door neighbor in the dumpster, I'd be appalled that anyone might choose to tuck in to keep him from going to waste (or for any reason for that matter). So is my ambivalence regarding others foraging for discarded cow meat, given my utter revulsion at the idea of cannibalism, an indication of my own speciesism? Seems so. Anyway, I'm too squeamish to eat an apple out of a dumpster, so I suppose this is moot. ~Penelope How's that for a first post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 personally, i just think it's gross, and wouldn't even feed it to my dog. sorry, that's just me. janeen ________________________________ Angela Nagle <angel.nail Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:55:43 PM Re: Vegan Child Tired of Being Different Hi Jacqueline, Im wondering why you are opposed to dumpstered meat? I am i guess, more freegan...if the dairy is going to be wasted, than there is no sense in not eating it. I have friends that actively dumpster and sometimes deliver me goodies that i wouldn't normally be able to eat such as cheese. I have no ethical problems eating dumpstered meat i just can't do it! There is nothing that makes me sadder than seeing meat being wasted. Its like an extra bit of torture for the animal. I believe that the thing about veganism which is important is not increasing the demand for animal products. Only when there is no demand than will the abuse stop. I also think dumpstered meat it an excellent source of pet food. Ideally i wish there was no animal products in the dumpster, but there is so instead of it going to landfill and making more methane it should be used. This opinion of course is an ethical one and not based on individual health. Is your aversion to dumpstered meat a health issue? Im really interested in discussing this with everyone. What are everyones opinions of dumpstered animal products on here? Just throwing it out there! Ange On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Alan <soy_decaf_latte@ > wrote: > > > Jacqueline, > > Glad you are on board, and got a good laugh to boot! > > These postings are viewed by lots of folks, and not all of us know each > individual's history of comments over the years. Rather than assuming folks > have that context, I find it best to simply respond to what's been said. > > While I do not agree that the health approach is self-serving, or that all > forms of vegetarianism necessarily save animals, I do agree that it's time > to let others take over the discussion or just move on. > > And for my bottom line on whether it's more beneficial to teach kids about > the health, environmental, and world hunger consequences of our > diets/lifestyles, or just teach them about animal compassion ... I'd say > better to place them on a stool with 4 legs than 1. > > - Alan > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com>, > " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote: > > > > Alan, > > > > It seems laughable, after all I have posted about ethical and > > compassionate living, that you are posing such questions to me. You are > > asking if I am teaching my kids that it is okay to abuse and torture > > animals as long as it doesn't actually kill them. Anyone that knows me > > knows the answer to that question. It's absurd. My vegetarianism isn't > > about what it does for me (such as it is with people that take a health > > approach to it). I do it for the animals. It is a selfless act, not > > self-serving. > > > > As for Singer, I don't always agree with everything that he says. Some > > of his work is good, others (like saying it's okay to eat shellfish or > > go dumpster diving for meat and other food waste, isn't). > > > > I'm a fan of the Abolitionist Approach. You can check out the blog here: > > http://www.abolitio nistapproach. com. My goal is to cause the least > > amount of suffering to animals. > > > > On another note... anyone else watch Earthlings yet? What a great movie! > > Check it out, buy the movie or find a screening near you: > > http://www.earthlings.com/ It's not about what animals can do to serve > > people (including being nutritious or healthy to eat or not). They have > > their own souls, lives, interests, families, etc. regardless of whether > > or not their flesh is healthy for humans to consume. > > > > Here's my bottom line, because I don't plan to keep posting on this and > > going in circles. All forms of vegetarianism saves animals. So that's a > > good. Whether someone's motives for doing it are to protect themselves > > (health), the planet (environmental) or the animals (compassion) , or > > religious (but that's usually founded in compassion), each one ends up > > doing what I want -which is to not kill animals. So that's a good thing. > > But I still think that compassion is the only reason that can't be > > compromised. It is also a selfless route, seeking to help other > > creatures, rather than to do just what benefits me. It's still the > > reason I feel will resonate the most with my kids and build a long > > lasting reason to stick with this lifestyle. > > > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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